calcium, alk, magnesium diy dosing

[beaslbob]

calcium, alk, magnesium diy dosing sources and techniques

Glad to see a reef chemistry forum here.

Thought I would just share my experiences with this DIY method:

An Improved Do-it-Yourself Two-Part Calcium and Alkalinity Supplement System by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

with the aid of this on line calculator:

Reef Chemistry Calculator

First get yourself calcium, alk, and magnesium test kits that have sufficient precision to measure 20ppm differences in calcium and magnesium. salifert is good as is seachem. (My first calcium test kit was only precise enough to 50ppm which is not very useful when you want 375ppm to be 400ppm)

Then look around for the ingredients.

Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda): Arm and Hammer from the grocery store

Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom Salts) drug store or grocery store.


3 1 gallon containers you label as magnesium, calcium, alk (baking soda)
(I find it helpful to also label the mixing instructions also). One gallon juice/drink containers work well. I would use the same brands as different containers vary slightly in the actual volume

Calcium chloride: Ice melter for driveways up north or from redi mix concrete places. It is used to speed hardening of concrete at colder temperatures. 50 pound bags are like $25 or so. Cal-chlor is anhydrous (more concentrated) and a 25 pound bag here is like $9 or so.

Magnesium chloride is the hardest to find. And more expensive then calcium chloride. It is used as an ice melter also so you could be lucky enough for find some up north. Be sure it is 100% magnesium chloride. Some ice melters reduce costs by having a mix of magnesium chloride with rock salt and calcium chloride. I get mine here from a local industrial supplier who does not charge shipping ~$30 for a 50 pound bag.

The industrial supplier here charges $40-$50 total for 1 50 pound bag of calcium chloride and 1 50 pound bag of magnesium chloride. These are so inexpensive I just give them away at local club meetings and frag swaps.

When you get the calcium chloride and magnesium chloride I recommend you immediately store those in labeled plastic containers that are water tight. I use 1g ice cream tubs, 3 pound coffee (plastic) cans, and pretzel, trail mix containers. If you open the 50 pounds bags and get some water in them, the chlorides will immediately harden and be hard to work with. The smaller containers are really nice to keep the chlorides dry and usable.

I do recommend you buy a scale capable of measuring 300mg weight. You can use a measuring cup but I find that less reliable and a scale only costs $10 or so.

actual operation:


The first thing you do is measure where your tank is currently at and use the calculator to get it at some value. Say 1350ppm magnesium, ~400ppm calcium and ~10dkh alk. Dose the magnesium first then the other two. Of course it is best to perhaps dose 1/2 over two days but with the calculator it is unlikely you will have problems.

Then mix up 1 gallon solutions for the magnesium, calcium, alk per the instructions of the article. (I use the second formula because I am too lazy to bake the baking soda. :wink

Then you measure alk and when alk has dropped below some value you dose equal amounts from the calcium and alk solutions. When 1 gallon of those solutions is used up you dose 300ml of the magnesium solutions. Then make up new calcium, alk solutions.

I also add just a touch of Mrs. Wages pickling lime to my top off water.

I think you will find this method to be inexpensive and easy to implement. The hard part is actually reading those articles and get everything setup.

My .02

 

[beaslbob]

Ok now y'all pick apart my spelling

 

[H@rry]

Ok now you'all pick apart my spelling

Well, it's not "you'all". It's "y'all", as in "y'all comin to Sunday dinner?" "You'all" is what people say when they think they are mocking a southerner.

 

[beaslbob]

Well, it's not "you'all". It's "y'all", as in "y'all comin to Sunday dinner?" "You'all" is what people say when they think they are mocking a southerner.

can y'all forgive me?

 

[lazyreefer]

Hello,

I'm dosing 2 part from BRS and adding mag as necessary per testing results.

I like your simple approach of testing for Alk only and then adding the same amount of both Alk and Ca everytime you dose, afterall....I am the lazy reefer.

I'm surprised to hear you're adding 8 ounces of mag for every gallon of Alk/Ca since it was my understanding that the corals don't really need mag for skeletal purposes, it just allows for more Ca and Alk to be suspended in the water column before precipitating out in the form of carbonate on your equipment.

How big is your tank, how quickly did you go through a gallon of Ca/Alk, and where do you think the magnesium went during the time it took to use up a gallon ??

Also, when you say a touch of pickling lime are you talking about the powder or saturated limewater ?? How big is your ATO reservoir and how big is a touch ??

I have a 12 gallon ATO with just plain RO/DI and I want to add kalk to it but not in such a large amount that an accident with the pump in the reservoir could result in all 12 gallons being dumped in at once and the possibile PH spike killing my fishes. I'm just trying to ge an idea of how much limewater I could get away with adding to my ATO which maintains a 175 gallon system.

Thanks for the post!

 

[RBursek]

Your tank will not use as much Mg as Ca and ALK, FIRST get your Mg up to levels, if Mg is low it is hard to get Ca up and keep it up. Then add part A and part B as needed as your test dictate, you do not need to add both or the same amounts of both, My Kalk drip keeps my Ca at the levels I want but I need to add part B for Alk, and once in awhile Mg, it also depends on your salt mix levels of these 3 and how often and how much is your water changes.

 

[lazyreefer]

Thanks Bob, I appreciate your post very much. I guess the thing that threw me was your comment.....

"Then you measure alk and when alk has dropped below some value you dose equal amounts from the calcium and alk solutions. When 1 gallon of those solutions is used up you dose 300ml of the magnesium solutions. Then make up new calcium, alk solutions."

Which I thought meant you only tested Alk and added Ca n Alk in the same amounts, I now understand that limewater is keeping your Ca parameters correct.

 

[jcom]

Just FWIW, I am a 2 part (3 part really) DIY doser myself and I cannot imagine myself sticking with the daily drudgery of manually dosing. Especially with the way Alk can swing and the risk of it dropping and killing my SPS. Early on, I made the hard decision of the expensive investment of buying the AquaMedic Reef Doser. Boy, I can really say that it's paid off in spades. I have the four station unit and have Alk, Ca, and Mag dosing with one free station. After about a month of religiously testing, adjusting, testing, adjusting, etc, I have now got things dialed in to the point where everything is rock stable and my testing has gone from daily to almost weekly.

Plus, I bucked up and bought a 5 gallon bucket of BRS Cal Chloride, Three 7 pound containers of BRS Mag Chloride, a bunch of Arm&Hammer Baking soda from the store as well as a ton of Epsom Salts from Walgreens. Now I have what is certainly a multi-year supply of DIY 2 part. I figure I'll save $1000s over the years as opposed to buying commercial A/B 2 part preparations.

The doser is not a cheap investment up front, but when you think about what you'll be spending on corals for your tank over the next 1, 2, 5 years, and what could possibly happen if you miss a dose or two...it really is nominal. My $0.02

 

[RBursek]

LazyReefer,
Kalk also adds Alk but in a much smaller amount then it does Ca.

 

[lazyreefer]

Thanks for the input guys!

Another thing that I've noticed while using Reef Crystals salt by Instant Ocean is I'm not seeing the numbers their advertising. I've got a 30 gallon brute mixing up SW at 1.024 and I'm seeing out of the brute a day or two later 1050 mag, 360 Calc, and 8 alk using Ro/DI with 0 TDS

The box advertises 405 Ca and 1200 mag at 1.023 (all tested with Salifert)

So, here I am diligently doing 20% + water changes every other week, and in the process lowering the parameters that I am taking time and money to keep at higher numbers like 420 and 1300

If the fresh saltwater parameters I'm using is not stable from batch to batch how can a drip method ever be "dialed in" ?? Should I be dosing the fresh SW in my brute prior to a WC ?? I guess so, but I haven't been.

 

[LegoZ81]

sorry ahead of time...
the answer is simple, stop doing water changes :tongue:

 

[LegoZ81]

try to mix the salt up in the bucket prior to making new saltwater up. the different components can settle out. also how much stuff is therein the bottom of the mix container? if you mix too quickly it may not all dissolve and alk/calc may be precipitating.

 

[beaslbob]

Ge I need to come back more often. thanks for questions and post.

Hello,

...
I like your simple approach of testing for Alk only and then adding the same amount of both Alk and Ca everytime you dose, afterall....I am the lazy reefer.

It's not my way but Dr. Holmes-Farley's way. I didn't do that at first and way overdosed. The simple kh test is great

I'm surprised to hear you're adding 8 ounces of mag for every gallon of Alk/Ca since it was my understanding that the corals don't really need mag for skeletal purposes, it just allows for more Ca and Alk to be suspended in the water column before precipitating out in the form of carbonate on your equipment.

I think you got it right. But after I used the first gallon of calc and alk mixtures I measured magnesium and it was down almost exactly where 300ml of the mag solution required. So it seems to be right on. Of course larger tank or at least larger calcium loads just use up the 1g mixtures faster so you wind up adding the 300ml magnesium mixture more often.

How big is your tank, how quickly did you go through a gallon of Ca/Alk, and where do you think the magnesium went during the time it took to use up a gallon ??

I have a 55g with low load and a 29g with corraline type load. I don't know where the magnesium went perhaps corraline or whatever. It does seem to track well.

Also, when you say a touch of pickling lime are you talking about the powder or saturated limewater ?? How big is your ATO reservoir and how big is a touch ??

I just put in about a teaspoon or less to a gallon of top off water. It is the pickline powder. I have no ATO

I have a 12 gallon ATO with just plain RO/DI and I want to add kalk to it but not in such a large amount that an accident with the pump in the reservoir could result in all 12 gallons being dumped in at once and the possibile PH spike killing my fishes. I'm just trying to ge an idea of how much limewater I could get away with adding to my ATO which maintains a 175 gallon system.

Thanks for the post!

thankyou for your questions.

I started this thread just to share experiences with this methods and spark some discussion. Looks like it is working.

I also noticed on the 29g that a hair algae problem disappeared with adding the kalk and with higher magnesium levels (~1500 or so).

my .02

 

[beaslbob]

...

The box advertises 405 Ca and 1200 mag at 1.023 (all tested with Salifert)

...

Some will adjust water change water with these chemicals. for instance raise magnesium with magnesium chloride.

my .02

 

[beaslbob]

sorry ahead of time...
the answer is simple, stop doing water changes :tongue:

+1

 

[beaslbob]

Thanks Bob, I appreciate your post very much. I guess the thing that threw me was your comment.....

"Then you measure alk and when alk has dropped below some value you dose equal amounts from the calcium and alk solutions. When 1 gallon of those solutions is used up you dose 300ml of the magnesium solutions. Then make up new calcium, alk solutions."

Which I thought meant you only tested Alk and added Ca n Alk in the same amounts, I now understand that limewater is keeping your Ca parameters correct.

Actually initially I did not do kalk additions. So kalk is not maintaining calcium.

I do actually only test alk (kh) then dose eaual amount from the calcium and alk bottles.

The kalk is just a little extra to help out. It seems to have helped fight off hair algae. plus I bumped uo the magnesium also which is supposed to fight some algae problems also.

my .02

 

[beaslbob]

Just FWIW, I am a 2 part (3 part really) DIY doser myself and I cannot imagine myself sticking with the daily drudgery of manually dosing. Especially with the way Alk can swing and the risk of it dropping and killing my SPS. Early on, I made the hard decision of the expensive investment of buying the AquaMedic Reef Doser. Boy, I can really say that it's paid off in spades. I have the four station unit and have Alk, Ca, and Mag dosing with one free station. After about a month of religiously testing, adjusting, testing, adjusting, etc, I have now got things dialed in to the point where everything is rock stable and my testing has gone from daily to almost weekly.

Plus, I bucked up and bought a 5 gallon bucket of BRS Cal Chloride, Three 7 pound containers of BRS Mag Chloride, a bunch of Arm&Hammer Baking soda from the store as well as a ton of Epsom Salts from Walgreens. Now I have what is certainly a multi-year supply of DIY 2 part. I figure I'll save $1000s over the years as opposed to buying commercial A/B 2 part preparations.

The doser is not a cheap investment up front, but when you think about what you'll be spending on corals for your tank over the next 1, 2, 5 years, and what could possibly happen if you miss a dose or two...it really is nominal. My $0.02

Just curious here couldn't you also have two (or even 3) drip systems to replace evaporative water. Then add calcium, alk, and magnesium in those containers to dose?

Might be hard to "dial in" but it I think it might work.

But then just manually dosing is pretty easy also.

my curious .02

 

[RBursek]

First, there have been quotes from Bob here and if it is referring to me I never posted that quote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you drip Kalk it will help maintain Ca and Alk, Mg is used up so slowly after it has gotten to proper levels and your salt mix and water change schedule and amount you would not need to drip Mg.
Read it
What Your Grandmother Never Told You About Lime by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
Read it
A Simplified Guide to the Relationship Between Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium and pH by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com
There is an old saying parallels you all and y'all, ignorance is curable, stupidity is forever.

 

[jcom]

Just curious here couldn't you also have two (or even 3) drip systems to replace evaporative water. Then add calcium, alk, and magnesium in those containers to dose?

Might be hard to "dial in" but it I think it might work.

But then just manually dosing is pretty easy also.

my curious .02

I have my RO/DI reservoir with a float valve and a Tunze osmolater for sump top off from the RO/DI resevoir. My preference is to have separate containers of Ca, Alk, and Mag and dose each separately.

I, however, disagree that manually dosing is easy. There is no way I could keep up with it to maintain constant parameters the way a doser does (for example, my doser doses alk every 6 hours).

 

[beaslbob]

I have my RO/DI reservoir with a float valve and a Tunze osmolater for sump top off from the RO/DI resevoir. My preference is to have separate containers of Ca, Alk, and Mag and dose each separately.

I, however, disagree that manually dosing is easy. There is no way I could keep up with it to maintain constant parameters the way a doser does (for example, my doser doses alk every 6 hours).

And thanks for the feedback

Actually I get tired of manual dosing from time to time also.