3D Printing thread

[SlowMN]

What do you guys think about the toxicity of certain plastics? Has anyone ran into any trouble? I remember reading back about only using white ABS out of concern in the pigments being highly toxic and PLA not surviving under water for more than a few months.

From this thread: http://thereefuge.com/threads/the-guide-to-3d-printing-for-aquarium-use.9437/

I have been 3D printing for quite a while now and have not had any problems with ABS or PLA. I think it really comes down to the quality of the filament you buy. I have made several frag racks out of PLA without any issue. I know it is biodegradable and over time will break down but so far it has held up fine.

I would soak whatever 3D printed product in DI water for several hours and lightly scrub it with a sponge before putting it into my tank.

I have been testing in a quarantine tank without issues (and its a 20g so the water volume is pretty small)

 

[Windy]

Not much of a study..... Didn't even examine many different types of filaments. Which filament was toxic in the FDM side. Doesn't say. How about ABS filament, like your drinking water bottle? The shoddy approach makes me think these guys are climate scientists.

 

[SlowMN]

Would love to get a printer, does anyone have a recommendations on one budget friendly if possible thanks in advance

Prusa i3 DIY kit. I did some extensive research into printers before I bought one and this has been a rockstar. You get the satisfaction of building your own (which it comes with outstanding instructions) as well as print quality compared to a 1-2k prebuilt printer. If you have any specific questions I would be more than happy to answer them.

 

[Glasswalker]

Interesting, I'd be very interested to see the entire paper.

It looks from the summary info though they are specifically talking about SLA being the worse one. (FDM still had some issues as well, but far better than SLA).

That said they don't mention specific plastics. They may well have used one of the more proprietary FDM machines using a proprietary plastic. That article doesn't say anywhere which FDM plastics they tested, and on which printer.

The reality is that "3D Printing Plastic" is identical to "Injection Moulding" plastic when you talk about things like PLA/ABS. When you get into more specialty 3D Printing plastics then things get a bit less clear. But 3D Printing ABS is basically identical to the ABS used in Lego, or ABS Pipe for example. It should have identical chemical properties. There are no additives or alterations to make it work for 3D Printing, it's just heated and melted through an extruder, exact same as how injection moulding works. Only the mechanical process is different (instead of injecting into a mould, you're injecting in small strings and following a pattern to build up a part layer by layer).

Also they made a point to call out that in the study the embrios were put in direct contact with the plastic for prolonged time.

I did mention in my earlier post to avoid SLA because those resins are known to not be reef-safe.

Anyway, would be very interested to see more concrete data on this. We definitely don't want to harm the fish/coral.

I agree "be careful" but no need to be afraid of 3D Printing in general.

 

[Glasswalker]

Further follow-up on the 3D Printing being toxic thing.

After further digging, I've found a few more data points, which call this out as junk science... Sounds like it was a study with an intended conclusion, rather than real scientific method...

• The FDM printer they tested, uses a proprietary 3D Printing plastic. This is not the case with the vast majority of 3D Printers out there in hobbyists hands who would be printing things for their reef tank. This plastic does have some modifiers/additives to make it more workable for 3D Printing.
• Standard ABS used in most consumer 3D Printers is 100% identical to ABS used in a vast array of plastic injection moulded parts, including hundreds of commercial products on the market specifically for use in reef tanks.
• Even then, the findings for FDM printing were BARELY more toxic than their control...
• The SLA findings were only on parts NOT cured after print. They claimed they "developed their own method" to reduce toxicity (this method consisted of high exposure to UV rays after the print). Keep in mind that this is well known STANDARD PROCEDURE with these types of printers, and is part of the training delivered to new customers on these types of printers. The part is partially cured by the printer, but needs a final cure in a high UV lightbox post-print...

Again, the main take-away here, is junk-science, FUD, and bad reporting can lead to stifling innovation... BUT we should not completely ignore risks with new technology. Reality is some plastics/methods are toxic/unsafe... But we already knew that going in

Apply common sense, confirm if the material/process combo is safe, and if so don't be afraid of things because they are new

 

[FranklinDattein]

Make sure to read the comments. That experiment is poorly made and the article misses key information, to assume all 3D printed plastics are unsafe.

 

[805reef]

I printed a couple things yesterday, here's the first. I'll have to get pics of the other one in a bit. I usually use fusion 360 but I decided to give tinkercad a try and it was really easy and fun to do. I think I will do more things in tinkercad from now on.

Hose holder for my reactors:

printed without any supports. The diamond design was just to see how the shape generator thing worked on tinkercad.

 

[Kungpaoshizi]

All I know is be cautious. After all all plastics are mixtures of mostly toxic stuff, and if they don't appear toxic at first, they could be after time. Remarking that the embryos are in direct contact is a half-story. The WATER in your tank is always in direct contact..
The older I get the more I find it funny how true Walter White was when he mentions 'chemistry is about solution and dissolution'. (period)
Even the BPA-free plastics they're producing now for water bottles that are safe?
Read the article for more info, all I use now is glass and cast iron for everything in the kitchen..
Currently, no federal agency tests the toxicity of new materials before they are allowed on the market.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/bpa-free-plastic-containers-may-be-just-as-hazardous/

 

[805reef]

Here is the other one I printed yesterday. It is a frozen food feeder thing... I use LRS food and have it cut down into feeding sized rectangles. I have a couple holes on the top of my tank for running cables/feeding so I made this D shaped thing so I can drop in a rectangle/cube of food and it will thaw and then get spread out into the tank.

Again, printed without supports so I had to do just a little trimming:

and installed:

with food in it:

It works great! and best of all no more forgetting about the thawing food in a cup only to come home to a smelly surprise.

 

[hybridazn]

This is a great thread! I've always thought about investing in a 3d printer, now I just might.

 

[Windy]

All I know is be cautious. After all all plastics are mixtures of mostly toxic stuff, and if they don't appear toxic at first, they could be after time. Remarking that the embryos are in direct contact is a half-story. The WATER in your tank is always in direct contact..
The older I get the more I find it funny how true Walter White was when he mentions 'chemistry is about solution and dissolution'. (period)
Even the BPA-free plastics they're producing now for water bottles that are safe?
Read the article for more info, all I use now is glass and cast iron for everything in the kitchen..
Currently, no federal agency tests the toxicity of new materials before they are allowed on the market.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/bpa-free-plastic-containers-may-be-just-as-hazardous/

Yes, life is so dangerous nowadays. Probably should just stay in bed.

 

[Glasswalker]

That's a pretty good print. I find "round" (non-straight) bridges like that are hard to print without a lot of sag (can be done, but requires a well tuned printer, and good extrusion parameters). So yeah, congrats on that (assuming you printed that "upright" judging from the few sagging strands I see).

Also material has a big impact on it too, what material is that printed in?

Here is the other one I printed yesterday. It is a frozen food feeder thing... I use LRS food and have it cut down into feeding sized rectangles. I have a couple holes on the top of my tank for running cables/feeding so I made this D shaped thing so I can drop in a rectangle/cube of food and it will thaw and then get spread out into the tank.

Again, printed without supports so I had to do just a little trimming:

and installed:

with food in it:

It works great! and best of all no more forgetting about the thawing food in a cup only to come home to a smelly surprise.

 

[805reef]

That's a pretty good print. I find "round" (non-straight) bridges like that are hard to print without a lot of sag (can be done, but requires a well tuned printer, and good extrusion parameters). So yeah, congrats on that (assuming you printed that "upright" judging from the few sagging strands I see).

Also material has a big impact on it too, what material is that printed in?

I printed these in the ultimaker silver pla that came with the machine. I was too lazy to switch out the filament to pet+

 

[fetta]

Has anyone seen this site, some pretty good ideas http://printedreefingsolutions.com

 

[805reef]

Has anyone seen this site, some pretty good ideas http://printedreefingsolutions.com

Those are some very nice designs on that site!

I've been meaning to post, if anyone needs help designing things on tinkercad let me know and i'll be glad to help out.

 

[PurpleMonster]

Nice updates guys.... been away from the office so just catching up. I ordered some PET+ and cant wait to try it out! Currently I have both ABS and PLA in my sps dom reef with Bartlets, Clowns, Shrimp and other inverts with no issues.

 

[fetta]

I could really use one of those test kit organizer, they're pretty slick

 

[applejk]

awesome thread, will be following all the prints for sure! Where is everyone getting their designs from? Or are you guys making them from scratch?

 

[ttabbal]

There are a few sharing sites for designs. Thingiverse.com is a big one. I think some of the posts in this thread are new designs though.

 

[805reef]

I printed one of these razor blade holders and it works great for scraping coraline! Just thought I'd pass it along in case someone else is interested:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:34481