5 new bryopsis challenges are posted, and all can be cured using a rasp and a test rock

[brandon429]

There are five new bryopsis threads posted recently and they didn't mention the known cure, let's review and test

Of course dosing tech m alone might work, this is a thread for certain fixes if the easy route doesn't work.


Bryopsis cannot exist where it is uprooted from the substrate it anchors into regardless of what chemical you use to boost a cheat (typically Kent or peroxide)

do you think if you took a bryopsis, or green hair algae live rock chunk weighing 5 lbs, and broke it in half, that the algae would be in the center of the rock? why not? depth maximums are species-specific, substrate influenced but have reasonable limits in the rocks and surfaces we employ in our reefs. There is a limit of depth for the holdfast, the root anchor that makes certain species really hard to kill in the marine tank, and finding that limit is how you can beat any bryopsis invasion known. The work you must do is relative to how long you want to wait to win this battle, many have delayed too long and are put off by that much work.

A rasp mimics surface abrasions that are missing from all other options that don't fix bryopsis in a few days. Urchins rasp
Parrotfish
Sea turtles bite whole chunks off the reef

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/small-urchins-and-parrotfish-provide-hope-for-caribbean-reefs


A rasp acts like the beak of a parrot fish

In the link above, nutrients aren't the control for algae, a living rasper is


If someone has a persistent bryopsis problem, they have a persistent non rasp problem. A rasp and test rock cures all bryopsis challenge tanks, and a single test rock never hurt anyone's tank even though it's a forceful method compared to nutrient starving.

When a parrotfish bites off a chunk of bryopsis in nature (grazing keeps it in check and nothing else, and where grazers lack, it dominates) it takes substrate+plant with the bite, and excretes sand. That level of work is what cures bryopsis tanks, toying with the water and hoping for luck is another option and given enough magnesium one can usually coax a win. Of course snails and crabs pick at it, but parrotfish destroy. Pick the decisive model


some want the for sure fix, they aren't playing with dose something to the water and wait. All we do to win is focus only on one test rock and not the tank, that's the key. Don't do anything tankwide until the test rock stays clean, that's how we avoid wasting time. All prior techniques are opposite of what we do, hence the non wins or wins by luck with no compliance time frames. We name the day bryopsis will leave your tank (the day you upscale what worked on the test rock to your whole tank)

Take the test rocks and use a metal tool to scrape and micro damage the roots of the plant off the rock. I use a steak knife tip

It doesn't ruin live rock, you can't even tell most times and looks don't matter anyway, we are recovering from your purposeful farming so far
I rasp tiny areas and win instantly, never having to play catchup on a full tank. Frags I buy bring it in at times, and valonia (guess what cures valonia I've shown in threads)
It's one test rock...that's what we do different. We don't use your whole tank as a random guess dose palette

That alone will cure bryopsis as its rinsed off, it doesn't seat ultra deep in the rock and using a tool like a dentist dentist-handles your plaques works every time (does that ever hurt, ask yourself, are they playing with plaque or ripping it out?) using a post rinse peroxide or tech m spot rinse is the hidden trick to the rasp technique

After fully micro scraped clean, hit the clean areas of one test rock with peroxide, let bake for three minutes, then rinse and put back. Repeat this on another rasp rock test but use tech M, as a direct additive/cleanup on the test rock then rinse and put back. Watch them in tank as they sit among holdfast-filled nontest rocks.


Gauge those test rocks over a week or two, a compare that to other rocks you may have already been trying X method on...either of the rasps will beat any other method. Enjoy your bryopsis cure, next time do it first time you see it, no need to wait and watch it control your substrate.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Taking a rock and dipping in peroxide will kill bryopsis? That isn't the issue, though. One rock cleaned, another rock, power head, coral, substrate, tank glass, heater, probe, glass scraper, snail, etc. infected.

Bryopsis still feeds on po4 and photosynthesis. If one rock is growing bryopsis, another object has a filament waiting for it's time to grow.

 

[brandon429]

For sure growback can occur after a peroxide dip if we were only allowed a one off attempt/it's the rasp that wins and prevents growbacks. a tank will only be littered with sprigs from having purposefully farmed as much...if anything this is a prevention thread (act on the first visual detection) don't ever allow that much in the first place. Begin opting out now, a valid option we can demo here

Vs posting an opinion I'll accept a bry challenge tank, someone post up. This thread is a free reminder/explanation of how we generate hundreds of posts of cured tanks in our correction threads, a free fix for any bry tank-- especially the ones not finding fixes elsewhere.



It's hard to pull up a sixty page peroxide thread and find the rasp examples, so we can refresh that here. Not one bryopsis tank can beat a rasp and test rock, says giant proof threads. Let's use this thread to test. Sight unseen, not any posted bryopsis tank will fail to comply, we'll just scrape harder. Once the holdfasts are gone, that area is done with bryopsis


All forms of comparative control over the last 20 yrs have variation because they leave out addressing the most notable character of the invader (contrasted to fully non holdfast Cyanobacteria, for example)


Anytime we are considering doing something to the water of a bryopsis tank (nutrient stripping, dosers, peroxide, tech m) we do it post-rasp, don't ever leave the mass in place to continue seeing holdfasts at work and hope the water treatment saves all the work for us. Same for CUC experiments, they are to be preventers not removers, everything is applied post rasp and post test rock.


It's not that many instances of bryopsis can't be fixed by lazy water dosing, it's that this care approach got us into bry farming initially and the next non-QT, hands-off technique for everything-caused invader might not be as nice (valonia, osteopsis etc)


The technique is about showing how we grow our own algae challenge tanks on purpose by not selecting for the known cure, it's a really strange thing aquarists do by the tens of thousands, all of them wanted a water action to work or are currently awaiting one to do so-interesting trend among all algae challenge tanks.


Summary
Nobody can post a bryopsis challenge that can't beaten using the test rock and rasp, it's 100% guaranteed.

 

[brandon429]

first example. Not having to do a whole tank because we acted on one frag before it spread:

This frag is from my friends pristine expensive reef tank...recently bought frag had some bry like growth and toothbrushing allowed growback. Did the work on Saturday, will update occasionally with growback info...I bet it don't.

The rasp is pocketknife ***the green marks on the frag plug are pigments and bits of holdfasts locked into the concrete this just provides a reflective surface to see it for once

Live rock coloration usually conceals the leftovers that cause our growback. I didn't allow for that here.

The frag was made algae free like a dentist does business, harshly.

Peroxide then did the cleanup, not the bulk work, my parrotfish knife did that.

We just prevented a full bryopsis invasion, ten thousand people would've began dosing Kent tech m and waiting.... Hoping

Watch this little test frag above, it's my test rock. Compare regrowth per updates to any bryopsis thread running for time frames and non growback. Bryopsis is not hard to beat at all, it's among the more preferable invasions we can catch to help us learn to stop purposefully growing bad plants.

The algae was allelopathically preventing the chalice from laying basal mass, now it's free to. Any retreat work here will be trace hand guiding work, to guide back out anything but coral mass on the new in-demand real estate we just created.


Reef dentists cure bryopsis

 

[sundog101]

Are you saying to scrape two rocks and use h202 and tech m to test which works? Then would you dose the better one to the tank?

 

[Macdaddynick1]

first example. Not having to do a whole tank because we acted on one frag before it spread:

This frag is from my friends pristine expensive reef tank...recently bought frag had some bry like growth and toothbrushing allowed growback. Did the work on Saturday, will update occasionally with growback info...I bet it don't.

The rasp is pocketknife ***the green marks on the frag plug are pigments and bits of holdfasts locked into the concrete this just provides a reflective surface to see it for once

Live rock coloration usually conceals the leftovers that cause our growback. I didn't allow for that here.

The frag was made algae free like a dentist does business, harshly.

Peroxide then did the cleanup, not the bulk work, my parrotfish knife did that.

We just prevented a full bryopsis invasion, ten thousand people would've began dosing Kent tech m and waiting.... Hoping

Watch this little test frag above, it's my test rock. Compare regrowth per updates to any bryopsis thread running for time frames and non growback. Bryopsis is not hard to beat at all, it's among the more preferable invasions we can catch to help us learn to stop purposefully growing bad plants.

The algae was allelopathically preventing the chalice from laying basal mass, now it's free to. Any retreat work here will be trace hand guiding work, to guide back out anything but coral mass on the new in-demand real estate we just created.


Reef dentists cure bryopsis

So I've had bryopsis invasion in 2 of my tanks, in both my nano and my 60 gal, I used kent M in my 60 gal, and I used nothing in my nano, but i ran chaeto in my nano, I've had 0 bryopsis in the last 6 moths in both tanks, 3 weeks ago i removed 70 % of my cheato and my nano looks like a bryopsis forest, some of the bryopsis grows on my zoas directly, i usually take it out , scrub it dip it into the peroxide , next week it grows back like nothing happened. Also is that bryopsis or a hair algae? If that is truly bryopsis make sure to update this thread in 6 months or so.

 

[brandon429]

This rasp is for tanks like yours where common actions didn't work, we have already cured tanks with rasps mine is included in the threads along with others.

For sure will update as ongoing compounded proofs already avail



At no time would I dose the water for bryopsis, the test rock is to tell how well our scraping works, which has been only partially removing the holdfasts for you macD. It's not likely you were using a metal tool for true micro damage

If you use a test rock vs the whole tank, and remove portions of rock as you really rasp it, that's a different outcome than prior moves


Using Kent as the spot treatment vs peroxide, outside tank, is an important change not tried yet. There's also 35% external work using stronger peroxide, that cuts bry.

Do a test rock the right way it would be neat to track it


That plug above I fixed was repeatedly toothbrush worked which doesn't remove holdfasts but mows the top like a lawnmower, then the under growth grows back. It won't have grow back now except for any areas I may have missed or the post peroxide missed, but it will never be that bad again. None of this is one off, a repeat or two might be needed all relative to hesitation levels initially. We didn't hesitate above, so my grow back work will be low to none.

I never dip frags or rocks in peroxide, that puts peroxide on the polyp where there is no algae. We try to put peroxide directly on the rasped areas only, the polyp was never rasped or dipped except at the edges.

The test rock simply shows how a particular strain behaves to the new work done on it, how well the Kent or the peroxide works as post-rasp cleanup, each challenge differs.

Once you get a test rock to fully comply, that action is then applied to the whole tank, it's all hands on work no water dosing. Most will do the water dosing to avoid work, 90%. But for those who want a win, there's a better and more work intensive way.

Bryopsis anchors into the rock and the rasp is a destruction technique which can cure it alone without chems... the post work rinses are just the final touch for edges and spaces missed for bigger jobs.

The price of hesitation and watching bryopsis take over is huge, rasping can arrest the process and reverse it and with a test rock or two, finding what does work is much easier


No tank becomes a challenge overnight, the growth continues slowly as holdfasts were not accounted for and we can reverse that with good work refocused. Bryopsis and gha both are not hard to beat with the method although catch-up is daunting agreed.

Maybe someone with an early easy challenge is reading right now and can easily head that off at the pass

 

[brandon429]

Additionally, many times when we fix wrecked tanks we get full tank shots that show a need for full sandbed changing as well, hard work most will avoid. They'll do partial work on bryopsis, evaluate the action in a full on nutrient and lighting setting that grows algae, and remain frustrated.

In cases of real hesitation there are required actions beyond the rasp, depending on pic details.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I would have just removed the frag plug from that coral, to begin with. That for sure guarantees no regrowth on the plug. It can be risky getting h202 so close to a frag. I tested this with zoa frags once without success.

Rock removal, followed by sandbed removal, finally peripherals could theoretically do more harm than good on livestock?

 

[brandon429]

Wanted to use the frag as a rasp example here but agreed take all exclusive options in typical settings.


Did damage occur in these places:

http://reef2reef.com/threads/the-of...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2082359

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/268706-peroxide-saves-my-tank-with-pics-to-prove-it/page-65

The zo outcome is a full outlier statistically it has no repeatability so don't be concerned in the future if it means not letting an invader take over.

Much of those threads are before we knew about the rasping technique that's just used to illustrate deep tank access

Your post makes a good point. In my opinion this is how Bry or gha takes over most tanks because there is a set of made rules preventing action.

Our hobby advises quarantining fish but we skip the substrate part and play catch-up typically

Skipping substrate quarantine (substrate being any hard surface...frags...snail shells...rocks etc) is causing everything we work against today regarding algae problems for any invader besides green hair algae and cyanobacteria (worldwide hitch hikers)

All the rest we bring in and apparently farm on purpose. If a tank is designed and ran not to store up waste, then rip cleaning won't factor. We needed a way to fix the self defeating things aquarists do

Someone should post a fresh gha or bryopsis challenge here let's test further


Any test rock can be made to do as the frag above

 

[reeferfoxx]

This would be difficult to produce a control, imo. One control needs normal tank environment.

Tank 1 (normal client tank including)

• Livestock(fish/clean up crew)
• Coral(mixed reef preferred)
• Typical peripherals(lights, heater, pumps etc)
• Live rock
• Sand
• Nutrients(po4 and no3)

Tank 2 (Controlled environment including but not limited to)

• Clean up crew
• Live rock
• Sand
• Typical peripherals

Tank 3 (Same as tank 2 but used for further experiments)

I can't prove it but based on observation, I've seen similar reactions to bryopsis with techM vs ULN systems. We know Bryopsis feeds on po4 but it's reactions to environment changes are similar to the reaction of coral to parameter changes. Meaning, signs of changes results in turning white or bleaching. Not exactly the same reaction but used metaphorically, yes.

My tank with early stages of bryopsis showed signs of death or slowed growth due to lack of nutrients in the system. As the tank matured, the bryopsis grew stronger and more resilient. However, pulling patches from it's base still had same effect of no regrowth in area.

 

[brandon429]

Agreed we should try anything here to find the best, just need some fresh challenges. Can do a little rasping, some cleaning, all the magnesium boosting threads are there already and there ones for just dosing the water with peroxide. We should collect here the other methods for trial

That test above is miniaturized when we do test rocks made to comply with various approaches, then put back into the unideal condition tank to see how regrowth works. We think when a test rock complies even inside an algae growing tank better than non rasping test does, all one has to do at that point to clinch the win is make sure the tank doesn't have nutrient reserves

Agreed fully on unls tanks with bryopsis several are buried in those threads above. For those cases, rasping alone is likely to win. Rasping is too new to find examples on, so let's make some tests of it for analysis

The ulns crew don't have much wiggle room for stressing inhabitants via water dosing mg or peroxide, id consider those type challenges even more delicate and rasp worthy since it's so target directed.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Agreed we should try anything here to find the best, just need some fresh challenges. Can do a little rasping, some cleaning, all the magnesium boosting threads are there already and there ones for just dosing the water with peroxide. We should collect here the other methods for trial

That test above is miniaturized when we do test rocks made to comply with various approaches, then put back into the unideal condition tank to see how regrowth works. We think when a test rock complies even inside an algae growing tank better than non rasping test does, all one has to do at that point to clinch the win is make sure the tank doesn't have nutrient reserves

Agreed fully on unls tanks with bryopsis several are buried in those threads above. For those cases, rasping alone is likely to win. Rasping is too new to find examples on, so let's make some tests of it for analysis

The ulns crew don't have much wiggle room for stressing inhabitants via water dosing mg or peroxide, id consider those type challenges even more delicate and rasp worthy since it's so target directed.

I hope you're not forgetting, some tanks have coral covering 60%+ on live rock. Removing rock for rasp technique can be detrimental in more ways than one. The idea is removal but also to maintain existing environment. Otherwise we are back to complete "do-over". Other tank inhabitants might use rock for their homes as well. Am i missing something?

 

[brandon429]

we move full reef tanks in the linked threads one after another, no variation.

Google this to see why draining an sps tank for three hours isn't even a start over

Simon Garrett's intertidal reef tank

(Tide mimic setup)

Based on sheer size, and continuance of the hands off technique I can see why some won't do what's required... Maybe we're helping someone with a low level invasion who can act

Biologically, we can rip access any aquarium and have consistent outcomes per that hard work above if they want the work, the modeled fix their test rocks supported

 

[reeferfoxx]

Must disagree there, we move full reef tanks in the linked threads one after another, no variation.

Google this to see why draining an sps tank for three hours isn't even a start over

Simon Garrett's intertidal reef tank

(Tide mimic setup)

Based on sheer size, and continuance of the hands off technique I can see why some won't do what's required... Maybe we're helping someone with a low level invasion who can act

Biologically, we can rip access any aquarium and have consistent outcomes per that hard work above if they want the work, the modeled fix their test rocks supported

Agree. I've seen the effects of SPS coral in low tides around the Aussie GBR(great barrier reef). They produce a protective mucus. That isn't my concern, my concern is breaking the coral or crushing an inhabitant. The best form of preventing is educating, agreed there. The early stages of my outbreak was me thinking I had green hair algae and being confident my nutrient export regimen was superb. Boy was I wrong. We need a cure, brandon! lol

 

[brandon429]

my reef is a tiny, accessible reef that weighs ten pounds chock full and ten yrs old so while it's an easy model to use up scaling the work to typical reefs is hard agreed. People would expend all effort using spot treatments with no forced holdfast removal, then get regrowth in those large tanks which was a waste of time so the test rock came into play. If someone is changing variables like using 35 % vs 3%, then a test rock set showing the two percentage differences is in order. We want to stop experimenting on whole tanks as an initial offer for change

My tank has refused all valonia and bryopsis, in the pics as a rasp run in our peroxide thread in this forum not linked above. The big thread down low on the page has my tank opting out of valonia, one pass fix which says much considering its valonia.

someone reading will eventually have a tank that won't comply with common approaches and when they post here, the test will be on. send us the bad jobs

 

[brandon429]

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/373326-beating-bryopsis-started-techm-done/page-7#entry5366180

This study is worth anyone's time, you will see the genesis of tank takeover and prompted response from the keeper, dealing with planning, test rasp, and eventual win in these pages. Due to size of tank, rasping wasn't the sole cure it was water treatment, the additional options provided by rasping as a comparative basis were valuable. A guaranteed fix was avail and known per tank variables, as backup goto should the magnesium let up.

Pjan took time to document a challenge in strong detail, search out the highs and lows here. Look at the rasping learning we get from her documentation this is gold

 

[Amphibious]

All this talk about rasping LR or frag plugs to rid a system of Bryopsis is way too much work for me. When I had an outbreak of bryopsis a couple of years ago I learned of a German invention that has been around for many years but mostly used only in Europe. It's the Sochting Oxydator which safely doses H2O2, peroxide, into the aquarium 24/7 that eliminates Bryopsis and other nuisance algaes and prevents their return over time. Simple, effective and with the added benefit of raising oxygen levels and OPR readings. All beneficial to our systems. You can read about them here - Oxydator

 

[brandon429]

That's well covered for sure, we reviewed it long about 2012 in the threads at nr.com

One benefit of them is prevention, they don't kill sensitive organisms that raw peroxide kills but its very hard to find threads of them curing diverse invasions. many German planted tanks use them in bee shrimp setups, I would trust them with my bee shrimp and I wouldn't trust any other form of peroxide for crystal reds that's for sure.

Agreed there are many ways to avoid rasping but the oxydator isn't powerful enough for many invasions. They are better as preventative attempts.

as we read the peroxide threads we see 1:10 dosing which is orders stronger than the largest oxydator, still not working, so that brings in the rasp. If the OD worked for you that's good an easy method worked. Rasping is only needed when repeated results are demanded or if someone is managing a cure thread live time... posters usually won't wait mos then report back.

There are instances where dosing the water works, and within those times an oxydator is a fine thing to use as well agreed.

To offset what rasping has examples for, post a thread of them curing what we did above in the links:

Caulerpa

Valonia

Bryopsis w pics, more than one tank with pre pics so we can see levels of invasion pre

Invasive dinos (not treated by rasping, but to show limits for the OD)

And perhaps a gha reef or two.

With those links posted, the oxydator will be represented well.


Another instance rasping is needed is when people are working with small reefs, an OD looks like one has an underwater canister filter in small tanks we find it easier to just rasp and fix, then quarantine thereafter so it's not needed again. Rasping is one way for intentional farmers to change their ways by a stated date of compliance... no waiting required.

 

[brandon429]

Also post your before and after pics if possible


All algae cure threads are a bunch of opinions right up until the before n afters start, then a divergence occurs. The earners begin to stand out

An oxydator in the sump is a really strong cyano prevention device, we see them work repeatably well for the non holdfast invaders. Not any repeated dino cures though, and is enjoy seeing a valonia/oxydator pic set...I bet too dilute (just to set the boundaries for where they work well)


http://reef2reef.com/threads/bryopsis-kents-tech-m-treatment-thread.262845/
**this is a water only action/reaction sequence to bryopsis see post 149###
that was the rasp intercept point, when first visually located, even though the large tank makes this hard *that* rasping missing made for the other pages worth of trial. it is very hard to rasp and catchup a large tank that was fully invaded with delay, not knowing how rasping will arrest all spread. But that initial rasp also might have required a few repeats, or removing at least some rocks (work) and if we skip that step you can almost certainly lose a tank to bryopsis and many other anchored invaders


Rasping will save tanks, it works all the time.