Achilles tang ick care

armspar · May 22, 2016

So my 150 gallon reef DT has been in a no fish fallow for 4 months.

I bought an Achilles tang from live Aquaria and put him in my 20 gallon qt tank. He went through 2 weeks of cupramine, then 2 weeks of prazi pro. I got him eating nori and then hikarii mega algae. I have supplemented garlic, selcon and zoecon.

I put him in my DT as the only fish. He was doing great and ick less then after 1 week he got the first spot. I waited it out and It went away. Few days later 6 spots. Next day 20 spots. This whole time I've been feeding him a mix of nori and frozen foods high in protein, with selcon zoecon and garlic. Should I continue to do what I do, hoping he will win the battle? Or any other options for treatment? He's had a complete outbreak on him for about 4 days @Humblefish

Humblefish · May 22, 2016

An Achilles is unlikely to survive unless you pull & treat him. The mistake you made was only treating with Cupramine for 2 weeks. You need to treat for 4 weeks minimum if using just one QT. 2 weeks would only work IF you transferred him into another tank without lowering the Cu level beforehand.

@4FordFamily for any other ideas.

armspar · May 22, 2016

What do you mean by treating him, so putting him in another at tank and fallowing, or can I do dips because I have a trap that I use to freshwater dip him. Also what about using Focus and medicine in his food? And has anyone heard of FishKeeper herbal medicine?

Humblefish · May 22, 2016

armspar said:
What do you mean by treating him, so putting him in another at tank and fallowing, or can I do dips because I have a trap that I use to freshwater dip him. Also what about using Focus and medicine in his food? And has anyone heard of FishKeeper herbal medicine?

You will need to treat him for ich in a QT and go fallow again in the DT. No way around it (especially not with an Achilles Tang). Freshwater dips won't do much for ich because the trophonts are too deeply embedded. A FW dip is more effective at removing "surface" parasites/worms such as velvet, brook, flukes, turbellarians.

You can use TTM to clean him of ich if you do not wish to use copper again: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

armspar · May 22, 2016

I have heard that it is impossible to completely rid a tank of ick, in the long run even with complete fallow and quarantine.
There must be some other way to keep the fish healthy by having a strong immune system that protects it in the wild

Humblefish · May 23, 2016

armspar said:
I have heard that it is impossible to completely rid a tank of ick, in the long run even with complete fallow and quarantine.
There must be some other way to keep the fish healthy by having a strong immune system that protects it in the wild

I haven't seen ich in any DT of mine for nearly 10 years now. And I go looking for fish with disease (ich, velvet, brook, uronema) to treat and then put them in my DT.

I recommend reading this in its entirety: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/ich-cryptocaryon-irritans.191226/

Especially read the part on "Understanding Ich" (scroll down).

4FordFamily · May 23, 2016

Humblefish said:
An Achilles is unlikely to survive unless you pull & treat him. The mistake you made was only treating with Cupramine for 2 weeks. You need to treat for 4 weeks minimum if using just one QT. 2 weeks would only work IF you transferred him into another tank without lowering the Cu level beforehand.

@4FordFamily for any other ideas.

Yup I've had probably 15 Achilles tangs, one of which survived ich on its own without treatment but only for about a year (since they can live 15 years that's hardly a success). It slowly worsened until he could not take in enough food to keep nourished as the parasites sucked it all out of him and he quit eating. Same story for most other acanthurus tangs as well. Not proud of how many I killed.

Anyway yes you'll need to remove and treat. Coppersafe is more effective IME as cupramine never did rid my fish of ich entirely no matter how long they were in it. To be fair it may have been cross contamination also since TTM failed me once as well. I kept cupramine at double the recommended dose also.

Coppersafe worked easily but was a bit harder to remove than cupramine. If it had been a smaller qt tank then a large water change would have sufficed and this is a moot point.

Good luck!

4FordFamily · May 23, 2016

armspar said:
I have heard that it is impossible to completely rid a tank of ick, in the long run even with complete fallow and quarantine.
There must be some other way to keep the fish healthy by having a strong immune system that protects it in the wild

This is a misconception. It is true however that eventually you may make an error and reintroduce it, statistically.

It's also true that with some types of fish you can manage ich and the fish will build a resistance (not a true immunity since conditions can exist where it can be affected) and you'll never see it. Certain fish would not be able to do this if added because ich is present but I did this for about a decade so I know it can work. You have somewhat of a ticking time bomb however you basically hope nothing ever happens to stress the fish as they can easily succomb and the parasite will get the upper hand at this point making the damage far more devastating. (Tank moves, heaters break, direct current in tank due to faulty equipment, faulty dosing, very aggressive tank mates harassing each other, power outages, etc)

In the wild they swim miles each day which keeps the parasite from taking over and finding a host so quickly. In a glass cage the fish are literally sitting ducks allowing the parasite to take over a fish exponentially faster before the body can fight it off. Fish not designed to stay in one area of the reef and that cover a lot of ground seem to have this issue far worse (like most acanthurus tangs)

armspar · May 25, 2016

Its been a few days since I did a dip in freshwater for the achilles. The VISIBLE signs of the parasite still existed for 2 more days. Today his skin is clear. I know the parasite is still lingering in the water and likely still on him. Im willing to wait it out and keep going, if i see a full on out break then i will pull him out in a heart beat and put him in qt. I have had 5 achilles tangs total, and 2 of them have died from ick after 1 month. These 2 fish were completely covered in spots, and didnt even eat half as much as the current one i have does. My current achilles has not gotten a outbreak, just a minor case. IF he does i can promise that i wont leave him to die. This fish is priority to me over my entire tank itself, so I will not let him get over run by ick.

And he will be the only tang in the tank along with dwarf angels and clownfish, he wont be bothered.
Thanks for the help @Humblefish and @4FordFamily I will keep you updated

Babboney · May 25, 2016

Humblefish said:
You will need to treat him for ich in a QT and go fallow again in the DT. No way around it (especially not with an Achilles Tang). Freshwater dips won't do much for ich because the trophonts are too deeply embedded. A FW dip is more effective at removing "surface" parasites/worms such as velvet, brook, flukes, turbellarians.

You can use TTM to clean him of ich if you do not wish to use copper again: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-transfer-method.192655/

Bub you better yyyy vv

4FordFamily · May 25, 2016

armspar said:
Its been a few days since I did a dip in freshwater for the achilles. The VISIBLE signs of the parasite still existed for 2 more days. Today his skin is clear. I know the parasite is still lingering in the water and likely still on him. Im willing to wait it out and keep going, if i see a full on out break then i will pull him out in a heart beat and put him in qt. I have had 5 achilles tangs total, and 2 of them have died from ick after 1 month. These 2 fish were completely covered in spots, and didnt even eat half as much as the current one i have does. My current achilles has not gotten a outbreak, just a minor case. IF he does i can promise that i wont leave him to die. This fish is priority to me over my entire tank itself, so I will not let him get over run by ick.

And he will be the only tang in the tank along with dwarf angels and clownfish, he wont be bothered.
Thanks for the help @Humblefish and @4FordFamily I will keep you updated

I wish you luck but I can say with statistical accuracy that it will slowly worsen until the gill damage is irreparable and it sucks all of the nourishment he eats out of him.

Humblefish · May 25, 2016

Babboney said:
Bub you better yyyy vv

???

armspar · May 30, 2016

Yea I have the ick under "control" right now, Im just playing my luck right now and seeing what happens. I know he can survive at least a week with full ick because the others have survived longer and were not eating at all. If he manages to have it under control then I will leave him, but if a few days go by and he has a full coverage of it hes going back into quarantine.