Advice for Big Mama saddleback in hospital...

Clarksski · Feb 15, 2017

Hello.. I could use a little advice on what to do next with my clownfish. I've had her over three years and she spawns regularly. She spawned Sunday nite and had been healthy. By yesterday afternoon, I didn't think she was going to make it through the night... breathing hard, lethargic, sideways ,cloudy eyes, possible worm in gill. I FW dip for 5 mins ( hard for me to tell if there were flukes in the water) and then put her into 3 gal hospital tank for tx with general cure and copper power.
This morning she actually looks much better but I notice her tail and fins are ratty and they were not yesterday. If @Humblefish or @melypr1985 or anyone who is familiar with sick fish could please tell me what to do next.... I was going to dose general cure again tomorrow per instructions.

melypr1985 · Feb 15, 2017

Sorry about your clownfish. Let's start with this. Here is a picture of flukes after a freshwater dip. Did you see anything like it when you did yours? It's the little sesame seed looking deals.

Humblefish · Feb 15, 2017

^^ Agree. The ragged fins could just be where the flukes were feeding, and not a secondary infection.

Clarksski · Feb 15, 2017

Thank you mely for quick reply!!
I had watched your FW dip video before I did it. I couldn't tell if they were sesame seed looking things or tiny airbubbles.. But there seemed to be things floating around after..and she did seem somewhat relieved after dip.
Wish I could say for sure but I can't.. I can dip her again though if necessary

TroutbumNV · Feb 15, 2017

Just my opinion, but if shes improving dont dip again just yet. Being removed, dipped, then qt'd is stressful enough, doing it again is just going to add to the stress. Continue to monitor.

melypr1985 · Feb 15, 2017

Clarksski said:
Thank you mely for quick reply!!
I had watched your FW dip video before I did it. I couldn't tell if they were sesame seed looking things or tiny airbubbles.. But there seemed to be things floating around after..and she did seem somewhat relieved after dip.
Wish I could say for sure but I can't.. I can dip her again though if necessary

While a FW dip isn't super stressful, it's enough that you don't want to do it to the same fish too close together. If she's better now, then we can assume a few things. Either the FW dip, General Cure or copper are helping. I'd say it's probably the FW dip and General Cure doing most of it though. The key with this is that everybody should be treated as well. Once she goes back in the display, she will probably just get reinfected without that.

Clarksski · Feb 15, 2017

Thanks @TroutbumNV ....she was so out of it yesterday that I was able to scoop her up in my hands and gently place her in dip..she didn't even fight...
I forgot to mention in this thread (I was originally posting in the breeding forum because I initially thought her lethargy was related to the spawn)...
Couple hours after being placed in hospital tank.. she jumped out! I had a clear acrylic lid on tank but she managed to push it off on the jump.. she is a really big clown..
She didn't fall far at all but she was out of water for a couple minutes, maybe thrashing around too.. geez. Have a heavy pot on lid now so she's not going anywhere.

Clarksski · Feb 15, 2017

ok.. I'm assuming that I can't just throw in general cute into display.... it would prob be easier to remove corals and nemes and put them in a separate tank and treat everybody in display..do you see a problem with that? I do have a few crabs, cleaner shrimp, snails ...

TroutbumNV · Feb 15, 2017

Clarksski said:
Thanks @TroutbumNV ....she was so out of it yesterday that I was able to scoop her up in my hands and gently place her in dip..she didn't even fight...
I forgot to mention in this thread (I was originally posting in the breeding forum because I initially thought her lethargy was related to the spawn)...
Couple hours after being placed in hospital tank.. she jumped out! I had a clear acrylic lid on tank but she managed to push it off on the jump.. she is a really big clown..
She didn't fall far at all but she was out of water for a couple minutes, maybe thrashing around too.. geez. Have a heavy pot on lid now so she's not going anywhere.

That could also be where thin fin damage came from, specially if she happened to hit carpet. Or from laying on her side in the tank. Or disease. Can be hard to tell. Everything might be related, or not at all.
Youve done the right thing with dip, medicate and qt. Sometimes though in a panic we try to do too much too quickly, and it just adds stress. Stress is a killer if fighting disease. If there was obvious signs of disease and no improvement, than yeah, maybe another dip. But if shes improving, i say give the medication a chance to do its job before yanking her around again.

melypr1985 · Feb 15, 2017

Clarksski said:
ok.. I'm assuming that I can't just throw in general cute into display.... it would prob be easier to remove corals and nemes and put them in a separate tank and treat everybody in display..do you see a problem with that? I do have a few crabs, cleaner shrimp, snails ...

I wouldn't treat in the display. If you can, remove the fish to the QT for treatment and continue on the course you've started. How many and what kinds of fish are we talking about? What equipment does your QT consist of so far?

Humblefish · Feb 15, 2017

Clarksski said:
ok.. I'm assuming that I can't just throw in general cute into display.... it would prob be easier to remove corals and nemes and put them in a separate tank and treat everybody in display..do you see a problem with that? I do have a few crabs, cleaner shrimp, snails ...

You can't use GC in the DT because of the metro component; however you can use Prazipro (which contains just praziquantel) for clearing flukes.

TroutbumNV · Feb 15, 2017

I'm a little concerned about the potting lid over your qt tank, you said it was pretty heavy and sealed? You need to make sure it's not air tight or inhibiting gas exchange. Are you running an air stone or anything for flow in the qt?

Clarksski · Feb 15, 2017

I agree @TroutbumNV ...sometimes we do too much too fast.. that's the main reason why I'm checking in with all you fish docs and I'm glad you think what I've done so far is appropriate. @melypr1985 ... In my display..I have 2 other saddlebacks, 3 benghai, 1 crazy starry blenny, 1 melanarus, and one yellow tang. Nemes, a few corals, cleaner shrimp, emeralds and snails.
Mama is in a picotank, a 3 gal with a heater and a tiny filter with floss and a hard airline tube. I do have a 10 gal and also a 25 gal aquapod..I could start up either and I have extra heaters , filters.. etc.
I'm inclined to initially treat DT with prazipro, as @Humblefish suggested... and if I run into problems.. I could then go to QT.
At this point with mama.. it sounds like I should wait before adding anything different since she seems to be responding to what I have done so far.. except for the ratty fins...which could of been from dying flukes or perhaps even her jump.
As far as the protocol for general cure...for mama, I should add tomorrow..a second dose, 48 hours after initial dose... then wait another 48 hours.. then she could go back into DT? I have prazipro and can start that today for display.
Thank you all so much

Clarksski · Feb 15, 2017

@TroutbumNV , it's just a sheet of clear acrylic. I put a heavy copper cooking pot on top so she couldn't jump. It's not sealed or anything like that and I have a hard airline tube in there too.
Like it!!!

TroutbumNV · Feb 15, 2017

Yep, just saw your post, think we were typing at the same time!
I'd personally leave the clown in qt for at least 14 days. General cure is the 48 hour stages, but let the copper do its thing the entire time. Some even treat for 21 or 28 days. Since it seems kinda iffy as to what was going on or what the disease was, better safe than sorry and just have to repeat this process again.

TroutbumNV · Feb 19, 2017

Any updates? How is she doing?

Clarksski · Feb 20, 2017

So I'm not sure what to think of my mama clown..
I need help..
I put her back into DT tank on sat.. after a second dose of general cure on Friday and I dose the whole DT with prazi..I didn't really think she was going to make it but she found her neme and has been in there ever since.. please look at ppic I took tonite.. her fin has a sore on it.. rot.
Is this something I could QT her for with a different med? Or is this a sign of the inevitable?
I'd like to keep giving her a chance if it might save her..
@Humblefish @melypr1985 @4FordFamily @TroutbumNV

TroutbumNV · Feb 20, 2017

Looks infected for sure. You can get her out and treat with antibiotics, I know a lot do at first sign of anything. I think she should have stayed in QT MUCH longer personally.

melypr1985 · Feb 20, 2017

It looks like one of two things. Lympho or - and I lean toward this second one- an infection. Looks like it was an injury that is now getting infected. You'll want to treat, in QT, with kanaplex or furan2 or both at the same time if you can find both. You'll dose them at the same time, following the dosing directions for each. Do a water change every other day and redose each med. Do this for 10 days minimum... it may be a bit longer as antibiotics are slow acting in fish.