AEFW - My long journey

[gar732]

So are you removing all your sps from your display and dipping them and putting them back or do you have them in a separate tank. I removed all my sps into a frag tank and dipped them in a mixture of revive and melafix once a week when I did my water changes. It's been a few months and I just stopped dipping two weeks ago. I haven't put anything back in my display yet and probably won't for a few more weeks. It's been a real pain and I let a few corals including a volley ball sized stag in the process. I'm hoping I finally beat them but I guess home will tell. I'll be following along to see how you make out.

 

[ronnie]

I have a 40B set up as a frag tank that I'll be using as a QT. I would have dipped sooner, but I've been busy at work and have been fighting issues with the 40B.

I have everything lined out as far as I can tell, so hopefully next week I'll begin the tear down process.

I also have plans to set up another tank - probably a smallish cube as a QT. Everything will go through a four-six week process before being introduced into the display or frag tank.

 

[arotbart]

Dosage

Ronnie, for my benefit and for others, please re-post the exact dosage you are using for dips. I thought you started at one dosage level, but then increased the dosage.....

 

[ronnie]

Current dosage I plan on using - tentatively - is 10ml per 1/2 cup.

That equates out to 320ml per gallon. Which is roughly 11oz per gallon.

That means a 40oz bottle will treat about 3.75 gallons or so.

 

[Troylee]

thread of the motnh!!!!!!!!

congrats ronnie on your efforts and winning the first ever thread of the month on r2r.... this thread will be stuck and highlighted for the next month... keep up the great work...

 

[ronnie]

WOW!!!

That is amazing - all I can say is thanks!

R2R rocks for sure!

 

[ronnie]

Since this thread is now famous... :tongue:

I figured I'd update where I'm at to give everyone some perspective and hopefully offer some insight into what my game plan is and any potential flaws.

I been following/discussing another thread "over on that site" about an in tank treatment with levamisole. There are several people that are trying it out, and I am 80% comfortable giving it a shot myself. I'd love to hear from some of you experienced SPS'ers on why this may or may not work, and any tips you might have would be wonderful.

There is a drug called Prohibit that is 90% levamisole which people are currently testing for in tank treatment. I have ordered mine, and it will be here by the end of the week hopefully.

Let me lay down the disclaimer that I am not responsible for anyone's actions but mine, so please read thoroughly and make an informed decision before continuing down this path. Like I said, I've still not made a 100% decision on taking this route myself.


Here are the meds: https://www.americanlivestock.com/p-...ch-powder.aspx

I also found a coupon for $5 off your first order, which put my total at $20.75 shipped.

Coupon code is: ADEF11

That should help everyone save a couple bucks that hasn't ordered it yet. I have no idea when it expires, though.

The premise of the treatment follows a 5 gram per 300 gallon treatment of levamisole. That doesn't necessarily take into account actual water volume, but more the "box size". For example, my 120 + 40 sump would be roughly 150 gallons of water. This would mean that I'd use 2.5 grams to treat.

Here is a quick down and dirty plan of what I would do (or will do):
I think if the tank is handling things well, I'd shoot for a ten-twelve week dip process. That would equal, at a minimum, ten dips six days apart. It sounds like the first dip should be at the 5/300 ratio, and then examination to see how everything did.

After that, a ramp up of .5g/300Gal would probably be a good idea up to the point where you feel comfortable with coral/fish health.

I, personally, would leave the skimmer running, but pull the airline out so it is just running water. Same with calcium reactors. Leave them running. We are pretty certain that these things can swim, so I'd hate to see some of them crawling through your system and get into a skimmer or reactor only to exit it at a later date and reinfect coral. All of this is conjecture at best, but these are the things I think about late at night when I cry myself to sleep not wanting to tear my tank apart.

____________________________________

There has been some issues, mostly with using an impure solution (my theory anyways) of levamisole which seems to be pretty carbon-laden, causing heavy breathing in fish, etc. I don't think the Prohibit is the same as the other stuff tried, as it appears to be a lot purer. I'll be able to confirm that once my shipment arrives, hopefully later this week.

I will also be testing the "dead" dosage and determine if our tanks can handle that kind of dosage. There are many factors that need to be taken into account. Health of the SPS, health of the tank, etc. My tank is not uber infected with AEFW (from what I can tell). I have basted the last three days in a row and I haven't seen any flying off.

One school of thought is that there a possibly a couple different "kinds" of AEFW. There are aggressive flatworms and less invasive flatworms. I am pretty sure I have the less invasive, which is why I've seen minimal damage over the last six months. I'm hoping they are less resilient than the aggressive counter part. We'll see, though. :smile:

Anyways, once I get my scale and Prohibit shipped out to me, I'll start testing as long as I can catch some flatworms. I have my pico running right now in hopes of catching some flatworms. My plan is to stick some tri color acropora in with them and try to get them to lay eggs so I can monitor the hatching period. That seems to be a weak link in the AEFW phenomena, so hopefully I'll have success in breeding them (crazy, I know!).

People "over there" were planning to do a month long treatment, six days apart. I don't feel that this is sufficient, as there is a risk that we may miss some eggs hatching. My proposal to do a ten-twelve week treatment every six days would hopefully catch any overlap of laying eggs. It really depends on whether I can successfully breed them, though. That will let us know for sure the incubation process.

 

[Troylee]

Great info... That's what I always wandered how long the eggs incubate... The best solution I ever read was a 8week acro less tank to starve them out..:sad: it will be interesting if
You find eggs to see... Still a flaw is when where they laid??? Uhhhh I cringe at the thought man a local to me is
Losing everything to them...:sad: such a bad gut wrenching feeling... He posted these pics last night there no joke!!!! It might not be totally the worms that caused this crash but he does have them and has been battling them....

 

[ronnie]

I'm hoping we can lay down a solid foundation to finally put these resilient little #$*$*% in the same category as red bugs. I'd take RB over these guys without a doubt. So easy to treat.

Finding their incubation period would be huge, as that would let us know how often we need to dip. I'm hoping I can get at least that much info out into the reefing world. It will likely be a very trying task, though. Otherwise it would have been done by now.

So far I've only lost a couple small frags, and it may or may not have been due to the flatworms. I'm hoping to limit my losses to those, too. I would have treated a long time ago if I didn't have huge colonies. I just can't stomach the thought of tearing them out. I'm hoping my tests go well with the levamisole.

Semi-recent FTS:

 

[ronnie]

Received my Prohibit and scale today. I've got water mixing up for the first water change. Hopefully I can start this weekend or sooner!

Plan:
Remove skimmer airline
Dose 2.77g of Prohibit (This would equal 2.5g of pure levamisole)
Monitor for five hours (lots of clenching involved!)
Start skimmer back up
Run activated carbon
Replace carbon after 24 hours
Do 20G water change
Repeat every 6 days

I may increase the dosage of Prohibit by .25g or .5g every treatment, depending on how the system handles it.

 

[Bugg_zy]

Following along as well since finding them in my tank. Been dipping with revive once a week and I am not finding any in the dip water now. Only wrasse in the tank is a mystery. GL, GREAT thread! I can only hope like stated that we can soon put this plague in the catagory of red bugs. Identify, treat, conquer. Now off to turkey bast all of my acros to see if any fly off! :nerd:

 

[clowndude]

Great thread, I personally just went through the whole levamisole in tank treatment. I completed 5 doses and after the second week I have to say I haven't seen any flatworms since then, not even eggs. After the first treatment I made a few changes. I turn off my skimmer and media reactors. I also would baste all the acros and rock. I would also stir up the sand just to ensure there weren't any crawlers. After each treatment it is always best to suction the floor if you can. Also note that this treatment does cause the phosphates to go up so be sure to really watch your phosphates or you are gonna start to get algae problems.

 

[ronnie]

Thanks clowndude - once things settle down a bit with visitors and such, I plan to do first treatment. Possibly tomorrow as I have 25 gallons of water made up at this point - enough to do a good size water change after treatment.

 

[ronnie]

From what I'm reading, I am pretty leery to do the in tank treatment. Some are suggesting this is a deadend treatment - and at this point I agree....

I have made a decision to do NOTHING at this point. Today is the third week in a row that I've seen no flatworms blown off any coral.

I must have the version of flatworm that some people live with. And I'm personally ok with that.

I also put a heck of a test into action today (not me per say), as my melanarus died. I saw him swimming this morning right before the lights came on, and found him dead under a coral an hour ago, being dined on by the few remaining crabs I have (a bit ironic). So with him out, I will see if he was actually really controlling the flatworms as well as I think he was.

I do intend to have another, as I had him for three and a half years. He was my favorite fish.

I believe ReefBum has done quite well living with them, and I think, at this point, I will too.

For fragging purposes, I will run a QT that they will go through for several weeks before being introduced to the frag tank. That way I'm still able to trade frags and sell with a clear conscience. I plan to use Bayer as a dip for the QT tank.

Good luck everyone! I plan to follow this closely for any developments. My prohibit will sit, unopened until I can either stomach the thought of losing everything, or if someone perfects the treatment. I do long for a pest free reef, though, but absolutely refuse to do so with risk of losing so many colonies.

Perhaps I will frag everything and run it through QT. Once that is done, I will move it to the frag tank and then consider treating.

 

[GR808]

Im depressed. Just found out that I have aefw...
I'm all out of dip and need to get some asap.. So far, i've found it on my tri-color valida and maybe another. will dip asap and my other acros look ok so I'll keep an eye out. Is it possible to have them contained mostly on one acro?
I'll be reading this thread intensely to find a solution.

 

[ronnie]

That stinks.

Don't overreact.

Take It slowly.

If you have one, you have 100 more hiding. Guaranteed.

If at all possible, set up a small poco tank and put some in it with a couple small frags. Keep an eye on them and try to get them to breed. Then we can find the time it takes the eggs to hatch. I tried to so this, but when I decided to do it, I was too late and couldn't get any to blow off.

Basting is your friend. Be gentle, but consistent.

Good luck!

 

[GR808]

Do they hide in the LR or just on the acro? I have about 15 acros so hopefully they did not infest the others. I want to dip them asap to irradicate those bugs...

 

[ronnie]

They swim. So they are actually pretty mobile when they want to be.

 

[GR808]

are there any fish or inverts that are natural predators for the aefw?

 

[ronnie]

Wrasses. I just lost my melenarus today. Ive had him for over three years.

I'm looking for another starting tomorrow. Not sure if mine died of old age or what.