Algae ID & Vibrant Testing

DeepBrew

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I set up a 40 breeder and a 20 long frag tank in August 2016. Both tanks are intended to see how I can do maintaining as simple a setup as possible. HOB Aquaclear filters, basic powerheads for more flow and no skimmers. The 20L has a cheap chinese T5 fixture. The only spurge on the build is 2 Radion XR15 Pro G4 lights on the 40B. A build thread is here:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-deepbrew-40-breeder-20-long-build.265975/

By November I had some GHA and brown Dinos? in the 40B and some stuff that looked like cyano in the 20L that I was having trouble dealing with. I decided to try dosing Vibrant 2X per week. I've made a couple of posts in this thread:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/v...discussion-thread.271428/page-67#post-3357704

It's been a long process but the Dinos and GHA are pretty much gone. I've had green bubble algae crop up which is mostly gone now. I've had to clean the glass 2 or 3 times a week but that's better this week.

The purpose of this thread is to try to identify some cyano looking stuff that has cropped up in both tanks. I bought a microscope this week in hopes some of the fine people here of R2R can help me identify the algae and develop a plan to deal with it. I haven't lost any coral yet but some don't look very happy. I'm most concerned with an elegance coral which has not been open enough to feed for over a week. I believe the Vibrant process has stripped the water too clean for the elegance to be happy. I last dosed Vibrant on Sunday 1/1/17 and will probably hold off dosing again for a few more days to see if it will open up and feed.

The 40B has places of red and green algae mostly on the sand but a little of the red is stringing from the rocks. It seems to be slightly better this week than last. The 20L has black stuff EVERYWHERE. It's on the rocks, frag racks, frags and glass. It looks worse than ever this week.

I'm starting this process with an H2O2 test of each of the three algae mentioned above. Here is a pic of the start of the test:
H2O2 Test, Beginning.jpg

This is after 12 hours:
H2O2 Test 12 Hours.JPG

This is after 24 hours:
H2O2 Test 24 Hours.JPG

If I've interpreted what I've read from @twillard and @jason2459 correctly I believe the 40B RED sample is most affected by the H2O2 and is cyanobacteria. The 40B GREEN sample isn't really affected at all. The 20L BLACK sample turned red after 24 hours but isn't as affected as the 40B RED sample.

Microscope pics of all three samples coming up. I'm very much a scope noob so the pics aren't the best but hopefully their good enough for an ID.
 
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DeepBrew

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Here are microscope pics from the 40B RED sample. This is the one most affected by the H2O2. This is a lowest magnification shot so you can see the overall structure of the sample:
Red Stuff 1.jpg
This is higher magnifcation:
Red Stuff 3.jpg

One more for good measure:
Red Stuff 4.jpg

I'm confused because most of it looks more like the pictures I've seen of spirulina than cyanobacteria which the H2O2 test indicated for this one. In the scope it definitely looked spiral and I could see the helices turning as they moved around. In the middle picture there is one strand that has a more block shape though.

Anyone have any ID thoughts for this one?

Thanks!
 
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DeepBrew

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This a sample of the 40B GREEN:
Green Stuff 4.jpg

A closer shot:
Green Stuff 2.jpg

One more:
Green Stuff 1.jpg

To me this looks more blocky but it didn't react to the H2O2 much at all. Also, this stuff hasn't come back much after last weekends cleaning and vibrant dose. I found this shot interesting tonight:
Green Stuff 3.jpg

It looks to me like there's a lot of broken up cells here. Maybe Vibrant is about to do it's trick on this stuff and I don't need to worry about it too much. I'd like to know what it is though, also the round brown critters.

Thanks!
 
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DeepBrew

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One more set for the black stuff in the 20L. H2O2 didn't seem to break it down too bad and Vibrant hasn't knocked it back so far. Here's an overall shot:
20L Black Stuff 1.jpg

Closer:
20L Black Stuff 2.jpg

And a nice close up:
20L Black Stuff 3.jpg

This one looks like spirulina to me as well. Since H2O2 didn't phase it I'm considering using Chemiclean to deal with it if other agree with the ID. I've pulled all of the rock, frags and racks from this tank and scrubbed them down twice so far. It's worse than ever now and I'm afraid if I let it go on much longer I'll start losing some frags. It's mostly softies and zoas but I really want to keep them alive if possible. There are no fish in the tank and I've used Chemiclean successfully on our 75 gallon tank before so I'm not too concerned with using it.

Thanks!
 

jason2459

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Looks like a lot of spirulina red and green(black). Very nice pictures. What setup do you have?
 
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DeepBrew

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This is the microscope I bought:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BPJJL0Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I've been very pleased so far. I have a lot to learn, it's probably been 30 years since I last looked though a microscope. Thanks to everyone who's been posting scope pics and IDs on all of the various threads. It's been really helpful.

Today is testing, tank clean up and water change day. I'll be posting water parameters and some tank pics shortly. Then maybe I can make a plan of attack for each tank.

We noticed red stuff in the 75 gallon tank this morning. We had a lot of what I though were cyano problems with that tank earlier in the year before we set up to 40B and 20L. Back in the summer I hit it with Chemiclean and added a carbon/GFO reactor. That completely solved the problem. No sign of any nasties for months. Now it's creeping back in.

In the fall we added some coral frags, they got dipped and spent a few days in the frag tank, but nowhere near enough time to be considered a good quarantine. I'm thinking that's how the nasties got back in the 75. Now I have a much better understanding of why a lot of folks say we should fully quarantine everything wet before adding it to the tank. Once I get a handle on the 20L and 40B I'll try to tackle the 75.
 
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40 Breeder Update

Instant Ocean Salt
Last water change: 4 gallons (10%) 1/1/2017
Last Vibrant Dose: 1/1/2017, 4 ml
Dosing 10 ml of BRS 2 Part (Soda Ash & Calcium Chloride) daily

Water Parameters 1/7/2017:
Salinity: 35 ppt
pH: 8.3 (meter & Seneye)
Ammonia: 0 (Seneye)
Nitrite: 0 (API)
Nitrate: 0 (API)
Phosphate: 0 (API)
Alkalinity: 10 (API)
Calcium: 470 (Salifert)
Magnesium: 1440 (Salifert)

Some current pictures:
Overall tank shot
P1010449.jpg

Stuff on power head since cleaning on 1/1/17:
P1010456.jpg

Top view of red stuff
P1010453.jpg

Top view of green stuff
P1010451.jpg

Front glass
P1010455.jpg

Observations:
This tank looks quite a bit better than a week ago. The red and green algae spots didn't come back nearly as much after cleaning and water change on 1/1/17. I've been having to clean the glass 2 or 3 times a week but it has not been cleaned since 1/1. The amount of algae on the glass is a lot less than the past few weeks. The corals are doing OK but not what I'd call thriving. I've been especially concerned about the elegance as it's been mostly closed the last couple weeks and hasn't eaten. Based on discussions with @UWC in the Vibrant thread I decided to back Vibrant doing down to once a week. At this point I'm encouraged, the red and green algae stayed back pretty well this week and the elegance coral has opened up some. I'm going to try to get it to eat today. If it does eat I'll do some tank clean up, the regular 10% water change do the Vibrant dose for this week. If not I'll hold off disturbing the tank until tomorrow and try again.

Based on the microscope pics I believe the red stuff is spirulina and the green cyanobacteria. Based on what I've read from the fine folks here on R2R targeting both would mean H2O2 for the cyanobacteria and Chemiclean for the spirulina. Since Vibrant seems to have cleaned up the GHA, reduced what was growing on the glass and now slowing down these two I'm going to hold off adding another treatment to the tank for now.

I'm still a reef novice and would like to hear other thoughts though.
 
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DeepBrew

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The elegance looks like it's going to eat a krill.
P1010466.jpg

I'll give some time to get it down and do clean up is a little while.
 
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20L Frag Tank Update
Instant Ocean Salt
Last water change: 3 gallons (15%) 1/1/2017
Last Vibrant Dose: 1/1/2017, 2 ml
No dosing besides Vibrant in the tank

Water Parameters 1/7/2017:
Salinity: 35 ppt
pH: 8.35 (meter & Seneye)
Ammonia: 0 (Seneye)
Nitrite: 0 (API)
Nitrate: 0 (API)
Phosphate: 0 (API)
Alkalinity: 10 (API)
Calcium: 470 (Salifert)
Magnesium: 1420 (Salifert)

Some current pictures:
Overall tank shot
P1010457.jpg

Pics of nasty black stuff:
P1010458.jpg
P1010459.jpg
P1010460.jpg

This tank is still a mess. I believe the microscope pictures indicate the black stuff is green spirulina. Every rock, frag and rack was removed and scrubbed clean on 12/17/2016 along with a 10% water change. 10% water changes and spot cleaning were also done on 12/21/2016 and 1/1/2017. There's no fish in this tank, just the frags and a few snails and hermit crabs. The only feeding is either Reef Roids or a small bit of Oyster Feast about once a week.

I will do a 10% water change later today and also pull everything out and scrub it clean again. It doesn't take that long since it's a small bare bottom tank. The question is what do I do after that?

Do I keep dosing Vibrant and see if it eventually wins? If so, how often? 1 or 2 times a week?

I had planned on documenting a test dosing Vibrant along with H2O2. But H2O2 had very little affect on a sample of the algae from this tank so I don't think that will be very helpful.

I think Chemiclean probably has a good chance of knocking this out but I'm not sure if dosing it along with Vibrant is a good idea. I don't think it will hurt anything but I wonder if the bacteria in Vibrant can be effective with Chemiclean active in the tank. Also, this tank is skimmerless so exporting the after affects of Chemiclean may be a challenge. I have a DIY microbubble skimmer made from a lemon juice bottle that would be better than nothing but I'm not sure how effective it is.

I'd really like to get some feedback on a plan of attack for this tank.

Thanks!
 
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We did clean up and water changes on the 40B and 20L tonight. The elegance coral in the 40B ate the krill and seems happier so I decided to continue dosing Vibrant, once per week now.

The 20L was an absolute mess. We ended up pulling the rock, racks and frags out and scrubbing everything again. I also scrubbed down the tank sides and bottom. I tried to let everything settle before siphoning out the water but it was still a huge mess. There was a black spirulina film covering everything in the tank. I haven't seen anything that nasty since before my daughter was potty trained. :eek:

I ended up leaving everything in buckets for a couple hours and running a HOT Magnum canister with a micron filter to help clear the crap out. I had to clean it out a couple times because it clogged up. Then more stuff had settled to the bottom so I siphoned that out and did another water change. I just got everything back together a little while ago. I'm hoping that I pulled enough nutrients out that Vibrance can finish off what's left without me resorting to Chemiclean.
 
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I occurred to me this morning while cleaning up everything used last night that every single bucket, filter, pump, tube and you name it I have ended up contaminated with either water, rock or corals from the nasty tank. I've rinsed everything and set it out to dry.

How long do I need to leave them dry before it's safe to use them for anything that might go in my other tanks?

Should I give everything a bleach rinse too?
 
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Here's a picture of the 20L frag tank today, after last night's clean up:
20L 1-7-17 After Cleanup.jpg

I dosed Vibrant last night and plan on dosing 1X per week at this point.
 
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@wattson, sorry I missed your post. The black stuff in the 20L tank is actually green spirulina, here's a pic from the microscope:
20L Black Stuff 3.jpg

It's come back some since last week's clean up and I don't want to let it get out of hand again. I may hit that tank with Chemiclean this weekend to deal with it.
 
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The green stuff in the 40B looks like cyanobacteria to me. I think Vibrant has almost done away with it for now. I'm not planning on doing anything else for it at this point:

Green Stuff 2.jpg

The red stuff in the 40B is spirulina, but there's a strand of cyano bacteria in this picture too:
Red Stuff 3.jpg

Vibrant hasn't dealt with this yet. It's slowed down some but isn't really receding. I will deal with the 20L tank first then think about what to do with this stuff.
 
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The 20L started getting nasty again. Since it appears to be spirulina in that tank I decided to hit it with 2 heaping scoops Chemiclean on Friday 1/13/17. I did a 20% water change after 48 hours on 1/15/17 and there was still a fair amount of stuff present. I siphoned out as much as possible and hit the tank with another 2 heaping scoops of Chemiclean. 48 hours was up yesterday so I did a 30% water change and put carbon back in the filter. There wasn't much spirulina visible last night and is still clean today. I lost a small rhodactus mushroom everything else (mostly zoas) still looks very unhappy but hopefully they will pull through.
 
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The 20L has stayed nice and clean since I hit it with two rounds of Chemiclean back to back.

Dosing Vibrant just once a week in the 40B is not working out all that well. The red spirulina is running wild at this point and the green spirulina is starting back up too.

I will be doing water tests of both tanks today and may consider hitting the 40B with Chemiclean soon.
 
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Water parameters for the 40B:
Ammonia - 0 ppm (API)
Nitrate - 0.25ppm (Red Sea)
Phosphate - 0.0 ppm (Red Sea)
Calcium - 425 ppm (Salifert)
Alkalinity - 8.0 dKH (Salifert)
Magnesium - 1400 ppm (Red Sea)
Salinity - 35 ppt (calibrated refractometer)
pH - 8.2 (cheap meter)

Nitrates are too low, probably a result of Vibrant dosing. I believe that's why corals are suffering. I'm not sure where to go from here. Do I hit the tank with Chemiclean and try to wipe out the spirulina and deal with the low nitrates later?

Do I try to deal with the low nitrates and continue Vibrant dosing hoping it will eventually deal with the spirulina problem?

@UWC, @Brew12 , @twilliard , @jason2459 do you have any suggestions for getting some nitrates into the tank?

I'll be testing the water in the 20L later this afternoon. I believe it has a similar low nitrate issue. It looks pristine since Chemiclean treatment but the zoas in it are not thriving.

Thanks!
 

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I would use potassium nitrate or sodium nitrate as to not increase No4.
This is the first I have seen this thread and I have yet to find a good solution for spirulina besides erythromycin.
This thread is a good example of the redfield ratio and the growth of cyano's
 

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