Alkalinity Issues

[fishyman19]

Hello everyone!

I'm at a loss trying to figure this out so I figured I'd throw it out here. I noticed some of my SPS, mainly my red dragon, showing signs of burning. So I tested calcium noticed it was fairly high so I stopped dosing. It seemed to help, but after a few days some other SPS started showing the same signs. So I tested my ALK and it was at 13dks. I've since lost my red dragon.

ALK is the only thing I have on a dosing pump and it has been stable at 9 for so long. I dose 1.1 ml for 3 minutes and 15 seconds from midnight to noon and it has kept it stable for over a year and a half. I did raise it to 4 minutes a few months ago which I realized could be part of the problem, and I dropped it back to 3:15 but I've not been doing for almost a week and it doesn't seem to be going down much, it's planed off at 10, but corals are still losing tissue.

My main question is why would the ALK in the tank stop being used? Their is some coral growth but some have just completely stopped. And how do I keep my SPS from dying, I've lost 3 colonies already and it seems like I've got a few more unhappy, including my Last dragon starting to show more signs of tissue loss this morning before the lights come on.

Thanks for the help in advance.

 

[Jason mack]

Hmmmm think we need #reefsquad in ..can you also post all your other water parameters maybe

 

[GatorGuys]

You mentioned you stopped dosing Calcium because it was a little high... If the calcium levels drop too far your tank will stop using ALK too. Can you test your current Ca level?

 

[Brew12]

Hello everyone!

I'm at a loss trying to figure this out so I figured I'd throw it out here. I noticed some of my SPS, mainly my red dragon, showing signs of burning. So I tested calcium noticed it was fairly high so I stopped dosing. It seemed to help, but after a few days some other SPS started showing the same signs. So I tested my ALK and it was at 13dks. I've since lost my red dragon.

ALK is the only thing I have on a dosing pump and it has been stable at 9 for so long. I dose 1.1 ml for 3 minutes and 15 seconds from midnight to noon and it has kept it stable for over a year and a half. I did raise it to 4 minutes a few months ago which I realized could be part of the problem, and I dropped it back to 3:15 but I've not been doing for almost a week and it doesn't seem to be going down much, it's planed off at 10, but corals are still losing tissue.

My main question is why would the ALK in the tank stop being used? Their is some coral growth but some have just completely stopped. And how do I keep my SPS from dying, I've lost 3 colonies already and it seems like I've got a few more unhappy, including my Last dragon starting to show more signs of tissue loss this morning before the lights come on.

Thanks for the help in advance.

Corals consume alkalinity and calcium in equal parts to grow. If you noticed your calcium wasn't being consumed as quickly you should also have seen a lower demand for alkalinity.

There are many possible causes. Changes in lighting, pH (CO2 saturation in the water), and phosphates being the three that come to mind most quickly.

 

[Jason mack]

I lost a couple of mine because I had no nutrients in my tank and I wasnt replacing the trace elements ..now I dose columbo coral vits and columbo all in one .. too replace the trace elements ..

 

[fishyman19]

Thanks for the quick replies guys! Ive been testing calcium in conjunction with ALK the last 3 weeks. I did stop dosing calcium when I first noticed the high ALK and it did drop down to 310. I started dosing again and as of last night it's back to 430.

I haven't tested phosphates in a while, probably should and my lights have been Kessil LEDS for the last 2 years. I dose oyster feast nightly as well as coral exponential a couple times a week. I haven't tested nitrates or nitrites in months, my Ph is 8.0 and salinity is 1.025. All other corals are doing great as well. I did lose a power head a few months ago and the replacement isn't fit for the tank, but I have a mp 40 and a jebeo mp 40 running as well. Seems to be enough maybe not though? And two days ago I took my hood off because it was rotting some and my lights are now on the kessil gooseneck about 8 inches above the water.

 

[john.m.cole3]

3 main factors in coral growth:lighting, nutrients, and flow. Don't worry about testing nitrite. Definitely get a good reading on nitrate and phosphate (NO3 and PO4). You mentioned a powerhead not suited for your tank. Too strong, too weak, or what's your opinion. So let's think about how all of these could be tied together. When alkalinity increase, so does nutrient consumption. With a higher alk of 13, nutrients may very well be depleted in your system. Lower nutrients require lower intensity light so the light could present as being too strong. Start testing alkalinity daily. Ph and calcium should self-regulate with a consistent alk reading. I would suggest testing for NO3 and PO4 first, and then we can take it from there. Once you have a regular reading of nutrients, you can adjust alkalinity accordingly. I would lower your light intensity now and slowly raise it back up as these issues begin to get fixed. Also, I think replacing your powerhead will improve your chances of success here. don't worry about the corals, they will be fine in less light. They are very intolerant of lights being too strong.

 

[Brew12]

I would suggest testing for NO3 and PO4 first, and then we can take it from there. Once you have a regular reading of nutrients, you can adjust alkalinity accordingly

I would point out that corals need some phosphates for growth, but not much. If phosphates are too high, it can hinder coral growth. It's important to not be at either extreme.

 

[fishyman19]

Thanks John and Brew, I need new tests for the Phosphates and Nitrates, so I'll get those results later this afternoon when I can get to the shop to pick them up.

IMO the powerhead isn't enough, it was a pump that I had on a 56 gallon tank I believe and it's always been a backup in my 90 in case of failure. I did have 2 of the wp40's the on that failed was on the back right hand side and was on constant flow mode at around half power. The other is on the front left side aimed at the top on burst mode. The Mp40 is in the right middle side on reef crest mode and constant mode full speed for 3 hours a day.

I don't really think it's the light, it's been at the same intensity for a year and a half. I did move it higher abover the water on Saturday and now that I think about it I did raise intensity some, but would that have much effect since it's another couple inches above the water then it was before?

I will be home all day today cause of the holiday and I tested this morning, alk was at 10. I'll test again mid day and at night before bed, and grab the other test later this afternoon. I've turned my doser that was dosing alk off should I leave it off? I didn't know that high alk uses more nutrients. The craziness of our reefs is great! I do have great polyp extensions on several sps so I'm hoping those ones continue to stay happy.

 

[reefwiser]

Your alk is crazy high if you have low nutrients. If you have kept your nutrients low you want to have your alk 7 to 8. It you have high nitrates and phosphates you can run 9 to 10.
I test alk at least every other day. Tip burn happens when you have high alk and low nutrients. So bring your alk down slowly. I do this by slowly adjusting the amount of alk I dose down 1 ml at a time over the coarse of a week if it was at 10. It can take a little while to get the alk reading to settle down to 8.

 

[fishyman19]

Hey thanks for waiting around for me everyone, and thanks for the help! I posted this same thing on my local forum and haven't had a single response...they don't seem very helpful. So for those that asked I did test everything but Phosphates because the owner of the store I go to didn't have one at the time, we are pretty close though and from what I said I have in my tank media wise he believe my phosphates are pretty low if not zero. He does plan on having phosphate kits on Friday and I'll grab one then. But I tested everything last night and realized that probably all of my old testing kits were bad and my readings were higher then I previously thought! So YAY!

Alk as of last night at 8:30 was 9.8
Magnesium was 1500 + was previously reading at 1250 with old test
Nitrates are 50 or higher. Have always stayed around that number though, never seem to have ever been able to get them to go down.
Calcium is at 400.

I'm guessing this problem has been cause by user error because when I first noticed my calcium was too high I stopped dosing for probably 3 weeks. My guess is since I was using a bad test it was even higher then what was shown and I caused a drastic drop which caused my alkalinity to raise to crazy levels. Does that sound possible? And I was dosing 40ml of Magnesium every other day because every other day it would drop from 1325 to 1200 or at least that's what my other test which was outdated was saying. Now it's reading at over 1500. So one thing we came up with from your guys responses as well as his was to test everything yesterday and not dose anything this week and retest next Monday to see where it dropped to, and figure new dosing schedules from there. I'm still probably going to be dosing calcium because that's the one that seems to be dropping the most still, from 420 to 400 every day. But the others I will hold off on until Monday. Hoping to not lose too much more.

 

[Jason mack]

Hey thanks for waiting around for me everyone, and thanks for the help! I posted this same thing on my local forum and haven't had a single response...they don't seem very helpful. So for those that asked I did test everything but Phosphates because the owner of the store I go to didn't have one at the time, we are pretty close though and from what I said I have in my tank media wise he believe my phosphates are pretty low if not zero. He does plan on having phosphate kits on Friday and I'll grab one then. But I tested everything last night and realized that probably all of my old testing kits were bad and my readings were higher then I previously thought! So YAY!

Alk as of last night at 8:30 was 9.8
Magnesium was 1500 + was previously reading at 1250 with old test
Nitrates are 50 or higher. Have always stayed around that number though, never seem to have ever been able to get them to go down.
Calcium is at 400.

I'm guessing this problem has been cause by user error because when I first noticed my calcium was too high I stopped dosing for probably 3 weeks. My guess is since I was using a bad test it was even higher then what was shown and I caused a drastic drop which caused my alkalinity to raise to crazy levels. Does that sound possible? And I was dosing 40ml of Magnesium every other day because every other day it would drop from 1325 to 1200 or at least that's what my other test which was outdated was saying. Now it's reading at over 1500. So one thing we came up with from your guys responses as well as his was to test everything yesterday and not dose anything this week and retest next Monday to see where it dropped to, and figure new dosing schedules from there. I'm still probably going to be dosing calcium because that's the one that seems to be dropping the most still, from 420 to 400 every day. But the others I will hold off on until Monday. Hoping to not lose too much more.

Sounds like your on the right track again ... good too hear .. Happy Reefing !!

 

[fishyman19]

So first off I just want to say thanks to all of you for posting your opinions and help, and for future help as well!

So Update- I went the week without dosing anything but Calcium because I would get it up to 420 and it would drop down to 400 in day.

I tested everything on Saturday after I did a water change and parameters where as follows
Alk: 8.3
Mag: 1500
Cal: 420
Nitrate: 50 For the life of me no matter what I do I can't get this to drop ever. I may have too many fish. lol

So I've been testing my Alk every day since the water change to see what it does to see if I can find some way to figure out my dosing for it and I'm getting some weird results. Sunday at 3pm it was at 8.3, Sunday at 11pm it had dropped to 6.7 so I turned my doser back on and Monday morning at 9am it was at 9.3, Monday night at 8pm it was at 9.0 and this morning at 9am it was at 8.3. I feel like I may need to turn on my doser every other day so it runs. I plan on testing again tonight to see what it drops to throughout the day.

All but two of my SPS appear to be adjusting to the drops just fine I'm continuing to see nice polyp extension and a almost white frag of Joe the coral I bought from a guy who got it to start coloring back up is showing coloration and great polyp extension. I also dumbly bought a maybe half inch frag of Walt Disney Tenius from a local reefer on Friday last week because he offered it to me for a $100 and I couldn't turn it down. It's doing amazing in my tank so here's to hoping it continues to do so! The two that aren't doing so well are my red robin frag, it was the first to shows signs of STN and it looked like it was holding on, but it's gotten worse over the last couple days and my Apple Berry seems to do great for a day then the next day more of the base is gone. It's one of my favorites so I'm hopping it pulls through.

Any tips on how to keep them from going any further downhill? Or do I just need to hold out for the best?

 

[fishyman19]

Howdy everyone! Just to keep you all posted if you wanted it lol. The tank seems to be normalizing some. Magnesium read under 1500 for the first time in 2 weeks yesterday, it was at 1420. Not a huge difference but hey I'll take it. Calcium has been going from 420 to 400 every other day, so it seems to be staying constant. And my Alkalinity seems to have a better fluctuation now. Stayed at 8.3 for the week and last night when I tested it had dropped to 7.7. So yay! Next step is trying to figure out how to keep it at a happy range with my doser. I turned on the doser last night so I could see what dosing raised it to, then I will leave it off again tonight to see where it drops to and adjust accordingly. Thanks again for all your help. I'm hoping I can keep the tank happy again.