Ammonium chloride and seachem stability for cycling

Discussion in 'Reef Chemistry by Randy Holmes-Farley' started by nanomania, Oct 19, 2016.

  1. nanomania

    nanomania Well-Known Member

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    I dont remember, but one of the videos on their 40g build they added urine..lol.. howmuch ammonium chloride powder should be added?
     
  2. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Article Contributor

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    Solid ammonium chloride is about 32% ammonia by weight.

    So adding 1 g NH4Cl (320 mg ammonia) into 100 gallons (379 L) of tank water will boost ammonia by 320/379 = 0.8 mg/L

    I'd weigh out 10 g, dissolve in 100 mL water, then dose some of that stock solution.
     
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  3. nanomania

    nanomania Well-Known Member

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    So for 130g, i dose 1.3grams? And also should i add seachem ammonia alert? do i need to redose to see how fast the bacteria helps to get rid of it again? Iv read some where to redose 2ice.. what dobyou suggest?
     
  4. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Article Contributor

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    I'd probably use a test kit rather than a color change alert, but it might be adequate.

    No,, that isn't a recommended dose, just showing how you do the math. You need to decide what peak ammonia you want to hit. Some folks recommend 2-4 ppm. So scale to whatever target you want.

    http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/helpful-hints/one-and-only-nitrifying-bacteria-faqs
    from it:
    "However, if you choose to go that route you need to add ammonia to the water after dosing the One & Only because the bacteria need some source of ammonia to start growing a bigger population. Dose ammonia to an initial concentration of 2 to 4 ppm which should disappear quickly, with nitrate increasing a little then disappearing. Dose one or two more times with ammonia and after your test kits show no ammonia and nitrite, it is safe to start adding fish."
     
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  5. nanomania

    nanomania Well-Known Member

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    Oh, ok. So how to calculate howmuch to add to reach the 4ppm goal? I have purchased stability.
     
  6. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Article Contributor

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    I gave directions for 0.8 ppm. To get 4 ppm, dose 4/0.8 = 5 times as much. :)
     
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  7. nanomania

    nanomania Well-Known Member

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    Iv been reading about dry cycling, most of them suggest using dead shrimp even if ammonia is added, as it will form a certain type of bacteria. How true is it?
     
  8. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Article Contributor

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    I'm not sure there is any apparent long term benefit of using shrimp over ammonia dosing, but both can work. When using ammonia, it can take a while if you do not add bacteria.
     
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  9. jason2459

    jason2459 Not a paid scientist R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award

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    I personally don't belive supplementing bacteria is necessary as there's plenty available for free. I've never added any from a bottle and I've got plenty of bacteria. In my tank journals its taken me under 14 days to get a tank to zero out ammonia and nitrites.

    However, I have taken a look at a few bottles of bacteria and to their credit they are viable. So, if one would like to get some bacteria in a bottle they are there.

    http://reef2reef.com/threads/our-tanks-biology-up-close.239838/
     
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  10. nanomania

    nanomania Well-Known Member

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    So doni add fish right after the nh4 and no2 read 0? Or still wait? Im gona add seachem stability to cycle. Do i add vinegar while cycling?

    My plan is not use skimmer for the first month. Would it be a good idea?
     
  11. nanomania

    nanomania Well-Known Member

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    I too dont believe in them, its gona be my first time going dry, so gona dose ammonia. So im gona add seachem stability. I guess these bacteria in a bottle might jus be some combination of sugar vinegar alcohol.. i might be absolutely wrong though.. as im nit a marine biologist.. ;)
     
  12. glweek

    glweek Well-Known Member

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    ive used seachem stability twice now with good results. There bacteria does take a little longer to work but is WAY cheaper than anything else on the market and available at petsmart if no lfs carry it. i added i was showing 0 amonia, 0 nitrate, and small nitrate after 4 days of ghost feeding with mysis. also dry rock, sand in a 30 gal.
     
  13. Brew12

    Brew12 Well-Known Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Article Contributor Partner Member

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    Stability works a little slower because the bacteria are in a dormant stage. Biospira and Dr Tims are active bacteria so they tend start working a bit faster.
     
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  14. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Article Contributor

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    Once you can show that ammonia is disappearing rapidly, then you are ready to add your fist fish, IMO.

    There's no benefit (IMO) from not using a skimmer, and likely some detriments relating to aeration. You will not slow the cycle by skimming.
     
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  15. nanomania

    nanomania Well-Known Member

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    Im gona use ammonium chloride.
     
  16. nanomania

    nanomania Well-Known Member

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    So basically i need to add ammonia again, to check how fast it dissappears.
     
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  17. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Article Contributor

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    Yes, that's a good plan. :)
     
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  18. nanomania

    nanomania Well-Known Member

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    I saw Dr. Tim's video, he suggested to dose ammonia every 24hrs 2ppm 3ice.
     
  19. nanomania

    nanomania Well-Known Member

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    This is dr. Tim method. Is this exactly what i should do??

    Add the ammonia solution to the aquarium so that the ammonia concentration is between 2 and 3 mg/L (but, as mentioned, do not go above 5 mg/L). Record the amount of liquid you added. If you are not using DrTim’s One & Only Live Nitrifying Bacteria, wait 2 or 3 days and measure the ammonia and nitrite. Continue measuring ammonia and nitrite every 2 or 3 days until you start to see some nitrite. This is a sign that the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria are starting to work. Add half the initial amount of ammonia you added to the water on day 1. Continue measuring ammonia and nitrite every 2 or 3 days. Around day 9 to 12, the ammonia will probably be below 1 mg/L, maybe even 0, but nitrite will be present. Nitrite does not spike until somewhere between days 14 and 20. You want to be careful adding more ammonia because you do not want the nitrite-nitrogen over 5 mg/L as this will start to poison the nitrite-oxidizing bacteria. Add a little ammonia every few days (1/4 dose), making sure the nitrite does not go above 5 mg/L. Once you start to see the nitrite decrease, it will drop pretty fast. The cycle is completed when you can add the full dose of ammonia (2 to 3 mg/L-N) and overnight it all disappears to nitrate with no sign of nitrite. Now you can start to add fish.
     
  20. Randy Holmes-Farley

    Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Expert Contributor Article Contributor

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    There are many roads to Rome. Dr. Tim's is a fine plan. :)
     
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