Are Chinese LED's bad/inferior?

[Savant]

I thought I might have picked up the impression somewhere that Chinese LED setups are bad/inferior? Is this true?

And is this inferior and if so just wondering why. 120W LED Aquarium Lighting Full Spectrum Coral Reef Growing Moonlight Fixture $186.00

120W LED Aquarium Lighting Full Spectrum Coral Reef Growing Moonlight Fixture | eBay

 

[Reefing Madness]

I have several people out there using this LED unit, and have not had one complaint by them. Not one. They are all amazed at high bright they are. The LEDs have come a long way since the Chinese LEDs were bashed, they've gotten alot better, and are almost as good as the Crees. I recommend that unit to everyone looking. Heres another.
Dimmable LED Aquarium Light 120W with Lens 55X3WATT Bridgelux Coral Reef Fixture | eBay

 

[ReefLEDLights]

I thought I might have picked up the impression somewhere that Chinese LED setups are bad/inferior? Is this true?

And is this inferior and if so just wondering why. 120W LED Aquarium Lighting Full Spectrum Coral Reef Growing Moonlight Fixture $186.00

120W LED Aquarium Lighting Full Spectrum Coral Reef Growing Moonlight Fixture | eBay

They are...You normally get what you pay for.

They are about 1/2 as bright as Cree Fixture using XT-E LEDs. I measured a similar maybe the same (everyone, their brother and their second cousin are importing these) 120 watt fixture at 200PAR and 169 watts. A Cree XT-E Fixture with 45 LEDs measured 469 PAR and 118 watts...Thats over twice as bright!

Yes, the Cree Fixtures may be 2-3 times more. Here is a list on how they keep the cost low.

-Inefficient dated LEDs with counterfeits common.
-Cheap stamped housing
-Little or no heatsink
-Cheap Fans and Drivers
-No Dimmability via a controller like APEX or Reef Angel
-Limited warranty with lots of horror stories.

Bill

 

[Tylermacdonald15]

I have those exact LEDs over my 150 gallon reef. I thought about getting the ecotech radions but the cost difference was just to much for me. I got three fixtures for cheaper than the price of one Radion. I have had them for a few months now and everything seems very happy. I have SPS and LPS in the tank and all is doing great. They replaced my 250watt halides and I like the LEDs 100% better over the halides. The only difference is that they aren't as controllable as the expensive brand name units. I might try out some radions or AI LEDs in the future but for now I am happy with what I have. I think they are great, especially if you are trying to build a reef tank on a small budget.

 

[shovelrider]

They are not bad but maybe considered inferior. Most units are "Chinese". The no name fixtures are gaining popularity in the reef hobby. You can get ones that dim and allow controllers. There are many threads with good results from the cheep fixtures. These are a good way to try out LEDs in the early stages of reef use IMO.

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[BassandReef]

I had the 120 watt non-dimmables from EBay for 9 months. I eventually upgraded to the AI Sols. I think the dimmable models will be ok. I use a set of dimmable chinnse lights from eshine lighting that are excellent!

 

[e.litvin]

Has anyone experienced decent growth with these lights? Color wise they're probably fantastic, was thinking of getting a pair for my frag tank.

 

[Pappy]

I have seen these and my opinion only is def inferior to anything with Crees. The spectrums are very lacking and not dimmable. I think the colors are even worse than the ai sols. The other concern I have is how long will they last? Then again for the price you can't go wrong if they break u can just buy another. I just prefer the full spectrum with Cree bulbs as the colors in tank are drastically different.

 

[sanchoy]

Currently have 212 taotronics over my system. Growth is great! Corals are growing faster compared to my old 250w mh


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[bhazard451]

They are...You normally get what you pay for.

They are about 1/2 as bright as Cree Fixture using XT-E LEDs. I measured a similar maybe the same (everyone, their brother and their second cousin are importing these) 120 watt fixture at 200PAR and 169 watts. A Cree XT-E Fixture with 45 LEDs measured 469 PAR and 118 watts...Thats over twice as bright!

Yes, the Cree Fixtures may be 2-3 times more. Here is a list on how they keep the cost low.

-Inefficient dated LEDs with counterfeits common.
-Cheap stamped housing
-Little or no heatsink
-Cheap Fans and Drivers
-No Dimmability via a controller like APEX or Reef Angel
-Limited warranty with lots of horror stories.

Bill

This is a load of crap. All of it. That ebay linked fixture is an Evergrow produced unit (also sold by reefbreeders), and they perform wonderfully.

-Inefficient dated LEDs with counterfeits common.

100lm/w "Bridgelux" diodes (white) are now being used in the better built fixtures. The generic RB are near half the cree output per w. Crees are more efficient, but also twice the price. Using two bridgelux diodes is equal to or better than 1 Cree in lm/w at the same cost. Running 2 leds at a lower current also makes the leds run cooler, compared to running a 3W diode at 5W 1500mah.

-Cheap stamped housing
? Many use aluminum or nice looking painted cases. Looks are also subjective. I happen to find the Reef Optics housing you sell to be a little "cheap looking".

-Little or no heatsink
I've opened and made several modifications to these types of lights. All the good ones use heatsinks comparable to the ones you sell.

-Cheap Fans and Drivers
Quiet fans, and to spec performing drivers on the good units. Haven't had one driver failure in over a year.

-No Dimmability via a controller like APEX or Reef Angel
Some units are easily modifiable to apex/ref angel control. Some are done via a driver swap. Some have built in controllers. I've done all these options.

-Limited warranty with lots of horror stories.
No warranty issues whatsoever with the better companies. Some are resold via american companies and offer a US based warranty (Ledtric, Reefbreeders)

I'm not trying to put your company down, but there is so much misinformation in your statement it almost looks like a ploy to sell your own product. That just irks me.

 

[bhazard451]

Your PAR measurements have no distance to measurement either. I've done several with both.

I created a 12" DIY fixture over a biocube with 48 Crees and Luxeons that hit 550+ on the sandbed 30" down w 90 degree optics. You'll fry anything that isn't an Acro like that. What's the point of such a high powered fixture if you need to run it at 50% all the time?

24 Cree leds could work, but then you get uneven shadows because of the spacing. 55 bridgelux/epistar in a similar housing easily matches the PAR, with cooler running leds.

 

[ReefLEDLights]

bhazard451

I've been using LEDs longer than most anyone on this forum. I stand by my statement. I receive daily emails from Chinese Companies wanting us to sell their product and I choose not to as I've know the problems that others have had with quality...Little things like no thermal paste between the LED Circuit Board and their limited heatsink. Over the years the quality has improved slightly and there is a difference in quality from a Reef Breeders and the typical EBay Fixture that everyone and their brother and second cousin are importing.

Bill

 

[bhazard451]

That linked ebay fixture is an Evergrow fixture, which reefbreeders imports, which you put down.

You also sell $600 fixtures that still use only cool white and royal blue. If you have used leds longer than others in the forum, in the first year you would realize that even though you can grow coral with that setup, you will lose color on many pieces. Reds will suffer the most, as you will watch acans and chalices with red pigments turn bright orange on you, or lose their intense coloration.

Not only does it not hit the photosynthetic requirements that most coral need, It is also not as appealing to the eye as a fixture which incorporates neutral whites over cool white, and includes violets in the 400-430nm range, along with some 660nm red for visual coloration and that peak (which is also heavily present in such T5 bulbs as Fiji purple, which everyone loves to run)

My results in growth and color have improved dramatically ever since I implemented that change. Just about every time I bring home a frag from my friend's AI Sol Blue covered frag tank, it always colors up much stronger, and sometimes to a different color, especially if it has "orange" in it. Those are CW/RB crees in there, and XT-E CW does not add in any magic spectrum over the XP-E/G. NW Crees are stellar. None of the major manufacturers use them yet either. Give that about a year before they catch on.

I hope you can add these leds at some point into your fixtures as well. The difference is very noticeable. Try it out.

If you added some violet/red on separate channels, changed out the cool whites to neutral, added ~475nm blue, and maybe even 495nm cyan on their own channels, you would have a stellar fixture that separates itself from the pack on the market. It's a pain since it requires a pcb change, but its well worth it.

 

[CoralFragZ]

I hope I don't offend any of the sponsors but I have 4 of these and plan on buying 4 more for my 320 Reef. They are affordable and provide eye-popping par readings and provide a great daylight color. My SpS corals are doing amazing under them. First pic is with a nice wave 10" down and the second is a few inches down.

 

[ReefLEDLights]

That linked ebay fixture is an Evergrow fixture, which reefbreeders imports, which you put down.

You also sell $600 fixtures that still use only cool white and royal blue. If you have used leds longer than others in the forum, in the first year you would realize that even though you can grow coral with that setup, you will lose color on many pieces. Reds will suffer the most, as you will watch acans and chalices with red pigments turn bright orange on you, or lose their intense coloration.

Not only does it not hit the photosynthetic requirements that most coral need, It is also not as appealing to the eye as a fixture which incorporates neutral whites over cool white, and includes violets in the 400-430nm range, along with some 660nm red for visual coloration and that peak (which is also heavily present in such T5 bulbs as Fiji purple, which everyone loves to run)

My results in growth and color have improved dramatically ever since I implemented that change. Just about every time I bring home a frag from my friend's AI Sol Blue covered frag tank, it always colors up much stronger, and sometimes to a different color, especially if it has "orange" in it. Those are CW/RB crees in there, and XT-E CW does not add in any magic spectrum over the XP-E/G. NW Crees are stellar. None of the major manufacturers use them yet either. Give that about a year before they catch on.

I hope you can add these leds at some point into your fixtures as well. The difference is very noticeable. Try it out.

If you added some violet/red on separate channels, changed out the cool whites to neutral, added ~475nm blue, and maybe even 495nm cyan on their own channels, you would have a stellar fixture that separates itself from the pack on the market. It's a pain since it requires a pcb change, but its well worth it.

bhazard451

You obviously have not seen my Cree Recipe using Binned XT-E and XP-E LEDs over an actual reef or at a Frag Swap. That said, AI does not Bin their LEDs. I've seen LEDs in general brown out colourful corals and colour up brown corals. The same with different MH. Your experience with colouration is not the same as mine. There are many factors like acclimation and water chemistry

There are many good recipes for Chili. Some use Turkey some use Beef others try to save money and use road kill...

I have experimented with these LEDs and continue to do so. With the higher end Cree X series LEDs I find their improvement moot. On my personal tank I can easily live without the Red. I choose not to jump on the latest trend but to do practicable research with different LEDs, their spectrums and coral looks. I will agree and I'm interested in adding a couple Warm XT-E to the Mix but still have to find the right bin Mix for optimal looks.

As far as recipes, one cannot compare Cree to other companies like Bridgelux as they are totally different. Like Cool White...Huge Variation in Spectrum.

I do not mention our products here but will help you understand why our fixture is more than a Chinese Fixture.
-7.5 LB Heat Sink and 50,000 hour 23db Fans...Thermal Management allows the LEDs to be brighter under the same current. Look at the Cree Charts 25C v 85C.
-Carbon Fiber Housing and Manufactured in The USA
-Carclo Optics...Best in the Industry.
-Our Own Drivers which have proven more reliable and efficient than the Meanwell 60-48D.
-Top Binned Cree LEDs...Our Special Mix of Spectrum.

The proof is in the pudding and have yet to have a complaint about looks. In fact we just changed over the full spectrum import lights (Name Withheld) at a LFS to ours as ours made the coral look better.

I'm sure your happy with your fixture please keep us up to date on reliability.

Cheers

Bill

 

[alliecat]

I have the odyssea reef bright fixture sold by aquatraders- which is a Chinese knockoff of the marineland fixture. I've had it a year and have had no issues with it and have had alot of growth. Keep in mind I only keep lps and soft coral- no sps. I love this fixture.


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[icedearth15324]

I'm ordering a pair of LED fixtures tomorrow. Would I have probably preferred higher quality fixtures, yes. But do I have over $1000 to spend on lights, no. If I can get 1-2 years out of these value fixtures, and my corals and anemones will grow under them, then I'll be happy. Once I have more money to spend then maybe I'll buy more expensive fixtures.

 

[alliecat]

^my thoughts exactly. I've had my $100 fixture for a year and my corals look amazing. I'm a broke college kid- I can't afford an expensive fixture- so I deal with it and don't buy sps. Someday I will upgrade


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[Rikerbear]

I love my 'cheap Chinese' taotronic 120 wt fixture. The light is SO bright and so crisp. My fish and corals look amazing and I am seeing explosive growth.
you will never convince some that their 'opinions' while based on some facts (usually old data) were once valid but are no more so.
My favorite reef store also uses some of the Taotronic units on their tanks....and their corals are AWESOME.
I will upgrade in another year or so to the new taotronic programmable unit so I can add a ramp up and down as well as moon lighting.
For now what I have is making me and my critters happy and ddi not bust the bank

 

[bucksfan1976]

Has anyone thought of a couple things

1. Some people dont use APEX or Reef Angels and dont honestly care if a fixture is able to be hooked up to them.

2. Cost I will use this product as an example the Jebao WP40 wavemaker. Seemed like everyone in their mother bashed these at first glance now people are replacing MP40s, tunze pumps and all with these so called "foreign pieces of crap"

Sometimes people will not admit that foreign units are just as good with a 1/4 of the cost. Now im not trying to argue here however I will tell ya with 400+ par on the bottom of a tank thats extreme overkill and nothing soft would make it.