Are Chinese LED's bad/inferior?

[vetteguy53081]

My other strip is an Oceanic ( White /blue combo). Amazing how the colors all appear under such ighting!

I love reefbreeders, but wish they'd switch to Cree luxeon or True bridgelux, along with most other chinese/cheap lights

 

[ReefLEDLights]

I hate to say it Bill but you sir are fighting a loosing battle. In this day and age most people will always shy to way of saving a buck or two.

After talking to numerous vendors and LFS owners at MACNA very familiar with Eshine, Sidley and similar, I'm very glad I'm not importing these.

One Frag vendor next to our booth said of the last 50 Sidley Apollos he imported, he had to send back 20....

The Apollos over his display did produce good PAR and the spectrum did make the corals look good. He is no longer importing these due to the hassle of RMA.

If an inexpensive fixture looks good and grows and it lasts two years plus it can be more economical than a MH but I believe a fixture that costs twice as much, uses less electricity and lasts twice as long is the better value.

Bill

 

[bhazard451]

After talking to numerous vendors and LFS owners at MACNA very familiar with Eshine, Sidley and similar, I'm very glad I'm not importing these.

One Frag vendor next to our booth said of the last 50 Sidley Apollos he imported, he had to send back 20....

The Apollos over his display did produce good PAR and the spectrum did make the corals look good. He is no longer importing these due to the hassle of RMA.

If an inexpensive fixture looks good and grows and it lasts two years plus it can be more economical than a MH but I believe a fixture that costs twice as much, uses less electricity and lasts twice as long is the better value.

Bill

I agree with this. Eshine and Cidly are terrible, and should be avoided.

 

[gracedan]

Many people have the same feeling like you, LED products from China are cheap but sometimes the quality... don't know how to descript it..

 

[socal619]

i ran a typical 120w non dimmable chinese led for months, had good growth and color. i got a maxspect razor160w 16k i noticed my polyps got fatter, my welso got bigger, and everything seems happier. no doubt the chinese led got the job done though.

 

[Ron Reefman]

i ran a typical 120w non dimmable chinese led for months, had good growth and color. i got a maxspect razor160w 16k i noticed my polyps got fatter, my welso got bigger, and everything seems happier. no doubt the chinese led got the job done though.

Leds without dimmers? How long ago did you buy them? If you had bought an EverGrow (Chinese led) at the time you bought the maxspect, you'd have had the same improvement in your corals. Chinese leds do WAY more than just get the job done! I started a 1" frag of birdsnest coral hanging by a string back at the start of the year (when I got my new EverGrow fixtures). It's now 6" or more in diameter! Bigger than a softball. This pic is from a couple of months ago.

 

[bhazard451]

i ran a typical 120w non dimmable chinese led for months, had good growth and color. i got a maxspect razor160w 16k i noticed my polyps got fatter, my welso got bigger, and everything seems happier. no doubt the chinese led got the job done though.

You do realize the Maxspect Razor is a chinese led right? Coralvue distributes it, but Maxspect is a chinese company located in Guangzhou, China. Orphek too, except they are a lot more shady. When a company doesn't list its headquarters, or actively refuses to provide info on what brand/type of leds they use when the rest of the industry has no problem doing so, they should be avoided.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Your posting provided great insight and clarification ! Much thanks !!

You do realize the Maxspect Razor is a chinese led right? Coralvue distributes it, but Maxspect is a chinese company located in Guangzhou, China. Orphek too, except they are a lot more shady. When a company doesn't list its headquarters, or actively refuses to provide info on what brand/type of leds they use when the rest of the industry has no problem doing so, they should be avoided.

 

[Chameleon]

I hope I don't offend any of the sponsors but I have 4 of these and plan on buying 4 more for my 320 Reef. They are affordable and provide eye-popping par readings and provide a great daylight color. My SpS corals are doing amazing under them. First pic is with a nice wave 10" down and the second is a few inches down.

did you know they were using your tank pic in their ebay sale page? just curious.

 

[Chameleon]

i have been using a diy led fixture made with good leds for 2 years now.
i made a diy led fixture with cheap chinese leds for my frag tank.
i dont see much of a difference between the two tanks.
i thought I would upgrade the leds on the chinese diy build once i decided on color spectrum and led ratios, but atm dont see a need for the upgrade.

sorry no experience with chines made fixture, just chinese leds

 

[eliramos]

I love my 'cheap Chinese' taotronic 120 wt fixture. The light is SO bright and so crisp. My fish and corals look amazing and I am seeing explosive growth.
you will never convince some that their 'opinions' while based on some facts (usually old data) were once valid but are no more so.
My favorite reef store also uses some of the Taotronic units on their tanks....and their corals are AWESOME.
I will upgrade in another year or so to the new taotronic programmable unit so I can add a ramp up and down as well as moon lighting.
For now what I have is making me and my critters happy and ddi not bust the bank

mind if i pm you and ask where you got yours?? and what you are using specifically?

 

[Railcar79]

Here is how I look at it when it comes to led lighting. I know it is the future, and eventually I will have to switch, but till someone can sit down and come up with a simple easy to understand guide to leds, I have no clue. I don't have days to study waveleingths, optics, par, brands, wattage ect. When led gets like T5HO lights, tank size x livestock=this light, then I will buy.

 

[reefkoi]

Best thing is to see an led lit tank in person and if you love it then buy those lights, I get lost in all the data myself I prefer to try and mimic good looking tanks, if I see an led or halide or whatever light over a tank full of brownies then I'm gonna move on no matter what the data is!!

Also be sure the pictures of tanks you see in the advertisements of vendors are in fact led lit and not halides or t5 lol it happens!

 

[bhazard451]

Here is how I look at it when it comes to led lighting. I know it is the future, and eventually I will have to switch, but till someone can sit down and come up with a simple easy to understand guide to leds, I have no clue. I don't have days to study waveleingths, optics, par, brands, wattage ect. When led gets like T5HO lights, tank size x livestock=this light, then I will buy.

That's exactly the issue with leds right now. If you want plug and play, and the benchmark of reef lighting, stay with MH and T5. LED is not really perfected plug and play wise, but eventually will be.

 

[ReefLEDLights]

That's exactly the issue with leds right now. If you want plug and play, and the benchmark of reef lighting, stay with MH and T5. LED is not really perfected plug and play wise, but eventually will be.

Gotta disagree...

Sanjay Joshi has done a lot of research in MH Lighting.

The following is his work.

It does does not take a rocket scientist to find the right 1, 2 or 3 watt LED mix to copy this.

reefkoi is 100% on the mark...See the LEDs over a tank in person...Gotta Say It...Their Chinese Fixtures do have the mix done well...

I find the Art of this is to replicate this Mix using the most efficient 5 watt LEDs available, and then use the most reliable and efficient components...And then to do it Domestically or as much as possible...Difference between Made in the USA and Manufactured in the USA...

This does add to the cost but it is more often than not the difference between a Bentley, BMW, Cadillac and a Chevy...Or the difference between the Dodge Charger SE or SRT8

10,000 hour components vs 50,000 hour UL components...

Both will take you to the grocery store...

Bill

 

[EpicWin]

It's actually interesting what has happened with LEDs. We started with little info and very few people understood said info. Now we are basically flooded with so much info that we can't absorb it all. A lot of misinfo as well. I have done extensive reading. I'm a recent biology grad and have had a decent amount of physics. As I understand it there are a couple of key issues with LEDs.
1) even the LED systems with multiple colored diodes have narrow spectrums. This actually is what people love about LEDs. A blue led only produces blue light. For those who haven't had physics think of it like this. There are two ways to get green light in a tank. 1 is to have just a green led producing 500nm light. The other way is to have 1 blue led and one yellow led. To the human eye this is also green. However to your coral they much prefer the blue yellow combo. This essentially is how a metal halide does it. It combines many many colors to make an overall look that is blueish or 20k.
2) now to counter that last point. In the ocean colors other then blue are filtered out by water by around 36" in depth. Really the first 8" of your tank take most color out. So there are two different things going on here. First, most coral in the wild is adapted to mostly blue light because mist coral lives more than a couple feet under water. Second even if you put a ton of color in your LEDs most is filtered out by 8".

What I find funny is how willing the led companies fuel the misinformation fire. I mean they must consult with people who are biologists and physicists who tell them far more than what I just said. But if rreefers said its actually microwaves that make my corals grow you would have the new " Maxspect razerwave that gives your corals the microwaves they need" even though science would undoubtedly disagree. I have gone back and forth on UV light being a good thing in a reef tank. UV light is nasty stuff and usually is what distinguishes shallow water and deeper water species. Ie you can only be shallow water if you are adapted to dealing with the uv. When I say UV I'm talking 375 nm and below. 400 is probably not harmful.

There is my 2 cents . Cheers

 

[slipondajimmy]

I am currently looking at an LED fixture and after reading this I have gotten a headache..hahaha.

All kidding aside I remember just a few years ago when just a very small handful of companies were making LED fixtures and the chinese versions were about as tough as a cardboard box.

So with that being said for a 29 gallon (30" long) tank, if I was to go with chinese lights what would you guys recommend I go with.

Thanks

 

[OCDiver]

Can someone link me to one of those LEDs that are full spectrum and can be controlled by an Apex and also are a "Chinese" make. I'm beginning to think they don't exists. 120W preferred.

Thanks,

Corey
Sent from my MZ609 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Ron Reefman]

Wow! What a post. I'll just interject my comments in bold blue print.

It's actually interesting what has happened with LEDs. We started with little info and very few people understood said info. Now we are basically flooded with so much info that we can't absorb it all. A lot of misinfo as well. I have done extensive reading. I'm a recent biology grad and have had a decent amount of physics. As I understand it there are a couple of key issues with LEDs.

1) even the LED systems with multiple colored diodes have narrow spectrums. This actually is what people love about LEDs. A blue led only produces blue light. For those who haven't had physics think of it like this. There are two ways to get green light in a tank. 1 is to have just a green led producing 500nm light. The other way is to have 1 blue led and one yellow led. To the human eye this is also green. However to your coral they much prefer the blue yellow combo. Really? I think blue is a yes, but I've never read or heard any scientist say corals like or need yellow spectrum. A little bit of red for the zooxanthellae to do photo synthesis with, but not yellow. What is your source for that data? But your blue & yellow making green for our eyes and still being blue and yellow for the corals is spot on! This essentially is how a metal halide does it. It combines many many colors to make an overall look that is blueish or 20k.

2) now to counter that last point. In the ocean colors other then blue are filtered out by water by around 36" in depth. Really the first 8" of your tank take most color out.Whoa! I hope you mean 36 feet and not 36 inches. And how in the world do you come up with,"the first 8 inches of your tank take most color out." That isn't even remotely accurate. Have you ever been scuba diving? Most colors of the spectrum get down about at least 5 feet and many make it down 20 feet or more. So there are two different things going on here. First, most coral in the wild is adapted to mostly blue light because most coral lives more than a couple feet under water. Second even if you put a ton of color in your LEDs most is filtered out by 8". The reason most corals want blue light isn't really because that is what they are adapted to, it's because the zooxanthellae they grow and consume use chlorophyll for photo synthesis and that process is mostly dependent on blue spectrum.

What I find funny is how willing the led companies fuel the misinformation fire. I don't think most do it on purpose. But you are right in that most led fixture manufacturers are just manufacturers and don't do much if any science. Especially the really cheap Chinese junk that gets sold on E-bay and Aliexpress. Just look at how many fixtures are still being sold that have 1:1 blue to white rayios and then add in red and green thinking that makes them better! If you have a 1:1 or even a 2:1 blue to white ratio, you really don't need red or greed leds. The white leds already make more than enough red and green. And green really isn't all that important to the coral, it's zooxanthellae, or photo synthesis either. Maybe if you go as far as a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio, you won't have enough red spectrum being emitted from the white leds and a red led or two may be useful. I mean they must consult with people who are biologists and physicists who tell them far more than what I just said. But if reefers said its actually microwaves that make my corals grow you would have the new " Maxspect razerwave that gives your corals the microwaves they need" even though science would undoubtedly disagree. I think you are going a bit overboard here. I have gone back and forth on UV light being a good thing in a reef tank. UV light is nasty stuff and usually is what distinguishes shallow water and deeper water species. Ie you can only be shallow water if you are adapted to dealing with the uv. When I say UV I'm talking 375 nm and below. 400 is probably not harmful. I agree with you about UV and that 400nm really isn't harmful (I'm not sure it's even considered UV).

There is my 2 cents . Cheers

And that's my understanding of where we disagree.

This graph shows how much of each spectrum is used in the photo synthesis that the zooxanthellae use in order to feed coral.



And here is a graph to show how light penetrates the ocean. Your claim that most color is taken out in 36 inches is just wrong.

 

[Ron Reefman]

I am currently looking at an LED fixture and after reading this I have gotten a headache..hahaha.

All kidding aside I remember just a few years ago when just a very small handful of companies were making LED fixtures and the chinese versions were about as tough as a cardboard box.

So with that being said for a 29 gallon (30" long) tank, if I was to go with chinese lights what would you guys recommend I go with.

Thanks

If you want a basic full spectrum fixture with dimmers try the OceanRevive Arctic S026 or the EverGrow OR D120.
If you want built-in controllers try the EverGrow IT2060.

OceanRevive is a sponsor here on R2R. You can find them here:
http://www.oceanrevivellc.com/
or
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/ocean-revive-led/

I have 3 EverGrow fixtures and 3 OceanRevive fixtures. I had 3 EG D120's and switched to 3 OR Arctic S026 because they offer a number of small advantages for just a couple of dollars more than the D120.