Are Metal Halides Making a Comeback?

[jeremy.gosnell]

Metal halides (when compared to LED lighting) are outdated for the vast majority of reef systems. They consume more energy than LEDs, they don't offer a true day cycle that results in varying PAR being spread throughout the tank, just as it is on a natural reef and you can't adjust spectrum and output on the fly. Also, MH bulbs start off strong, giving off a spectrum closely matching their advertised Kelvin rating, but over-time this deteriorates and both spectrum and output change. For most reefers, the clear choice is LED lighting as it one-ups metal halides in almost every regard.

However for SPS keepers there is a lot of discussion about whether or not LEDs are truly the weapon of choice for growing SPS corals. I shut my SPS only tank down last year, giving some of the colonies and frags to friends and planting some of them in my large mixed reef. I ran metal halides up until closing the tank down and had switched to LED for a year or so, before pulling the halides out of the closet. I can't give a definitive reason why, because I was measuring PAR under both lighting systems and it was comparable - but my SPS corals (mainly acros) just did much better under halides. I found that newly acquired colonies didn't lose coloration nearly as often and didn't take as long to become established and start growing. I've seen similar scenarios with clams as well. My personal theory is that the intensity of halides throughout the day is the culprit. With LEDs, out of a 6-10 hour light schedule, you may get 4-6 hours of actual high intensity PAR. With halides, you get high intensity PAR for the entire duration the lights are running. Just a theory.

 

[Winschuc]

I just switched from LED+T5 to MH+LED on my big tank. I was honestly getting great color and growth from LED + T5, but due to some equipment issues, I made the change. Hooking up the MH to a timer was easier than the connection issues between my LED and controller. I feel like both work well, just preference and ease of use. With the LED, I've found that tinkering with the spectrum makes them challenging. It was only after I got frustrated, and set all colors to the same intensity, that I started seeing the best results.

 

[Reefbrite]

Metal halides (when compared to LED lighting) are outdated for the vast majority of reef systems. They consume more energy than LEDs, they don't offer a true day cycle that results in varying PAR being spread throughout the tank, just as it is on a natural reef and you can't adjust spectrum and output on the fly. Also, MH bulbs start off strong, giving off a spectrum closely matching their advertised Kelvin rating, but over-time this deteriorates and both spectrum and output change. For most reefers, the clear choice is LED lighting as it one-ups metal halides in almost every regard.

However for SPS keepers there is a lot of discussion about whether or not LEDs are truly the weapon of choice for growing SPS corals. I shut my SPS only tank down last year, giving some of the colonies and frags to friends and planting some of them in my large mixed reef. I ran metal halides up until closing the tank down and had switched to LED for a year or so, before pulling the halides out of the closet. I can't give a definitive reason why, because I was measuring PAR under both lighting systems and it was comparable - but my SPS corals (mainly acros) just did much better under halides. I found that newly acquired colonies didn't lose coloration nearly as often and didn't take as long to become established and start growing. I've seen similar scenarios with clams as well. My personal theory is that the intensity of halides throughout the day is the culprit. With LEDs, out of a 6-10 hour light schedule, you may get 4-6 hours of actual high intensity PAR. With halides, you get high intensity PAR for the entire duration the lights are running. Just a theory.

New solid state metal halide ballasts have a much higher power factor (conversion of electricity to light) these days making efficacy comparable to LED and their output can be controlled in real time. Our new digital electronic ballast can be controlled via APEX or other 0-10 volt controller so they can be ramped up or down however you choose. Yes halide lamps degrade, no different than LED's or any other light source for that matter.

 

[shred5]

New solid state metal halide ballasts have a much higher power factor (conversion of electricity to light) these days making efficacy comparable to LED and their output can be controlled in real time. Our new digital electronic ballast can be controlled via APEX or other 0-10 volt controller so they can be ramped up or down however you choose. Yes halide lamps degrade, no different than LED's or any other light source for that matter.

What can they dim down too? 35%? How much spectral shift is there when they are dimmed down? I have known about these for a while but never looked into them.

 

[jeremy.gosnell]

New solid state metal halide ballasts have a much higher power factor (conversion of electricity to light) these days making efficacy comparable to LED and their output can be controlled in real time. Our new digital electronic ballast can be controlled via APEX or other 0-10 volt controller so they can be ramped up or down however you choose. Yes halide lamps degrade, no different than LED's or any other light source for that matter.

I am not familiar with the new solid state halides or the digital electronic ballast - can you post a link for me.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I see this has become a T5 vs Halide vs LED thread. Could it become anymore of a debate? LEDs work and the technology is getting better. Everything degrades, even we do. That is no surprise. However most of us don't run our LEDs at full wattage. My old mars aqua unit still runs at the exact same settings as it did a year and half ago. The only difference in my tank is nutrients. My import and export vs dosing regimen has changed. And like battlecorals has said, it's gotten to a point where you can't even tell a difference between lights and coral growth. I wish this thread would get back on track and quit the debate. It's surpassed being redundant...

 

[shred5]

I see this has become a T5 vs Halide vs LED thread. Could it become anymore of a debate? LEDs work and the technology is getting better. Everything degrades, even we do. That is no surprise. However most of us don't run our LEDs at full wattage. My old mars aqua unit still runs at the exact same settings as it did a year and half ago. The only difference in my tank is nutrients. My import and export vs dosing regimen has changed. And like battlecorals has said, it's gotten to a point where you can't even tell a difference between lights and coral growth. I wish this thread would get back on track and quit the debate. It's surpassed being redundant...

I think this is a debate thread is halide making a comback? I do not think it could not be anything but a debate thread.

If it is making a comeback it has to be at the expense of something either led or t-5.

 

[shred5]

By the way it was a year ago or longer Marine Depot had chimed in on one of the big debate threads and said they had seen a uptick in sales of halide fixtures.
They had not see a decline in sales of leds but a uptick in halide sales.

Edit:
I had talked to a few retailers at the same time about this and they also said the same as marine Depot.

What it looked like to some of them is the hobby is growing so no down tick in leds sales and actually leds sales were picking up but halide sales were on a uptick too.

They said people that had been in the hobby longer that tried leds were moving back to halides but allot of the new people were buying leds and that the hobby seemed to be still growing.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I think this is a debate thread is halide making a comback? I do not think it could not be anything but a debate thread.

If it is making a comeback it has to be at the expense of something either led or t-5.

Right, so has halides made a come back? no it hasn't. But what were the percentage of users to begin with? What are the percentage of LED users now? Or the percentage of T5 users? People use what works for them. Halides are before my time and most new reefers might consider them intimidating. What would the percentage of old reefers vs new reefers be? I don't see how the technology is making a shift back to old times?

 

[jporter17]

New solid state metal halide ballasts have a much higher power factor (conversion of electricity to light) these days making efficacy comparable to LED and their output can be controlled in real time. Our new digital electronic ballast can be controlled via APEX or other 0-10 volt controller so they can be ramped up or down however you choose. Yes halide lamps degrade, no different than LED's or any other light source for that matter.

I use these and they work really well. I have the RB Hybrid and I have it programmed so my two MH's mimic the rising and setting sun from right to left. This along with dimmable LED's give off a nice daily effect. My favorite time to view the tank is the late afternoon about an hour after the MH's have turned off and the blue XHO's are dimming down. It is really pretty. JP

 

[shred5]

Right, so has halides made a come back? no it hasn't. But what were the percentage of users to begin with? What are the percentage of LED users now? Or the percentage of T5 users? People use what works for them. Halides are before my time and most new reefers might consider them intimidating. What would the percentage of old reefers vs new reefers be? I don't see how the technology is making a shift back to old times?

What is your proof halides are not making somewhat comback?. Seems to be a lot more threads on it lately. I posted what I heard about a year and a half ago above and it was confirmed. I do not think halides are out selling leds either.

Tullio as a manufacturer what are you seeing with halide sales are they coming back?. maybe Someone from Marine depot can tell us what they are seeing now.
I just picked up another halide fixture but then again I just picked up some leds fixtures too.

I do not think leds are a decline but I think halide sales are picking back up.
I also think it depends on what you keep.. I think those with full blown sps aquariums are going back to halides and t-5.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Marine Depot also doesn't sell affordable LEDs that work. Unless you are thinking $300-$800 for a LED unit is affordable. For me $130 LED unit that works, is affordable. Thus, why my money doesn't go to marine depot.. often. MH will always be a more affordable option compared to name brand LEDs that may or may not work.

 

[reeferfoxx]

What is your proof halides are not making somewhat comback?. Seems to be a lot more threads on it lately. I posted what I heard about a year and a half ago above and it was confirmed.
Tullio as a manufacturer what are you seeing with halide sales are they coming back?. maybe Someone from Marine depot can tell us what they are seeing now.
I just picked up another halide fixture but then again I just picked up some leds fixtures too.
I do not think leds are a decline but I think halide sales are picking back up.
I also think it depends on what you keep.. I think those with full blown sps aquariums are going back to halides and t-5.

http://reef2reef.com/threads/what-type-of-lights-are-over-your-reef.257229/page-2#post-3040446

There is a poll. Tell me, who is winning?

 

[shred5]

http://reef2reef.com/threads/what-type-of-lights-are-over-your-reef.257229/page-2#post-3040446

There is a poll. Tell me, who is winning?

You have to have another pole to compare it too.. plus you need a little more than 60 people to have a accurate percentage and probably more than one site . No one is claiming halides are beating leds in sales. People are saying halides is making a comeback meaning their sales are on a uptick.

 

[Reef Pets]

By the way it was a year ago or longer Marine Depot had chimed in on one of the big debate threads and said they had seen a uptick in sales of halide fixtures.
They had not see a decline in sales of leds but a uptick in halide sales.

Edit:
I had talked to a few retailers at the same time about this and they also said the same as marine Depot.

What it looked like to some of them is the hobby is growing so no down tick in leds sales and actually leds sales were picking up but halide sales were on a uptick too.

They said people that had been in the hobby longer that tried leds were moving back to halides but allot of the new people were buying leds and that the hobby seemed to be still growing.

I was told the same by coralvue a while back. They sell a lot of LEDs but sales had spiked drastically on Metal Halides compared to the past couple years.
LEDs are still leading by the polls but I think many are converting to Halides which would be impossible by polls to say if they are coming back unless the poll has an option for those that have switch back to Halides from LEDs. Time will tell.. Many have great success with LEDs and will stick by them for a life time.

 

[reeferfoxx]

You have to have another pole to compare it too.. plus you need a little more than 60 people to have a accurate percentage and probably more than one site . No one is claiming halides are beating leds in sales. People are saying halides is making a comeback meaning their sales are on a uptick.

 

[ksc]

If you required at least 5 years experience to participate in the poll, the results would be much different. I bet the majority of the posters on that poll have less than 2 years experience.

 

[hart24601]

As it related to the original question, no I don't think halides are making a comeback. Halide fans still love them and there are people that went halide to LED and back to halide, but as for attracting new hobbiest to halides or exciting new halide tech to get people interested - I don't see it. I'm sure it happens, but 10 years from now I don't think there will be a larger % of reefers using halides than are using them now.

 

[Reef Pets]

Let's solve the debate and make the ultimate poll...
Let's start listing poll option here and someone or myself can create the poll and thread.

Poll example -
-had LEDs and switched to metal halides
-Love my LEDs and will never change
-Stared with Halides and switched to LEDs never to look back.

And so on

 

[Deaf clown]

I'm a MH fan for life.

I've always wanted a reef tank when I was a kid. So I got a big boy job, my own place, and started researching. I researched for a year before I put water in the tank. I bought a bunch of stuff during BRS' Black Friday sales and I finally got my hands wet in this great hobby Janurary '15.

LED's were the talk and THE lights to buy...or so I thought. I bought the Kessil 360's. WE for my 40 long. They did great with my zoas and some lps. But not acans. I decided to jump into cheaper sps frags kept them alive but the colors faded.

Added 2 t5 bulbs-ati aquablue special-within weeks I started to notice growth and color.

I wanted to go bigger after my first year. So I got a killer deal on a 75 gal drilled for a bean animal and two returns. Built specifically for a high flow sps tank. I invested in the 4ft Hamilton 2 250w mh 4 t5 combo fixture. And I was blown away with the difference. Even with just the stock bulbs.

I think if I had a par meter I would have had better success like the other LED "pros" but at the end of the day If I can get better results from a plug and play method, then I'm going for it and sticking with it.