Automatic, regular, unattended alkalinity monitoring

[melev]

Here's the video I just posted today.

 

[MaddyP]

Interesting concept! It appears to be an adaptation of the flow injection method, but the selection valve is replaced by solenoid pinch valves? If so, I can imagine programming complexity. Why not utilize the sequential injection method and move from using mL of reagent to microliters per test? Method is the same, programming would be slightly more complicated. Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing this on the market!

 

[K100286]

Very interesting. Since I am using the Trition method I need to measure the alk every day, and this would be a big help. Since I don't use any controllers, would your device give me the alk reading on the box with a probe in the water? Like the pinpoint ph monitors?
Dick Flanagan

 

[melev]

Very interesting. Since I am using the Trition method I need to measure the alk every day, and this would be a big help. Since I don't use any controllers, would your device give me the alk reading on the box with a probe in the water? Like the pinpoint ph monitors?
Dick Flanagan

The reading would be on the front of the device. It doesn't have a probe in the water, it has tubing that draws water from the system into the device for testing. The latest result is on the screen.

 

[JonasRoman]

I am not calculating dKH from other parameters.

Thanks for answer, i realize you are busy at the moment;-). Well, then I understand, you have made a "salifertrobot", aka, automatic titration device. Do you have a photosensor which tell colourshift and then count the amount acid to that point? and then convert this amount of acid to a voltage in the BNC?. That is very cool, and a smart way, excluding the need of infrared sensors measuring CO2. I still wonder why the measurement fluctuates during photoperiod? After realizing the main mechanism of you excellent invention, i guess this is due to KH and Ca consumption(and not CO2-consumption) by calcification that is more rapid during light period. If you can confirm this i am satisfied with my very first question and again: impressed work, and wish you all luck to getting this device on the market I am impressed

Regards
Jonas Roman

 

[dragonfish]

amazing

 

[Lasse]

Congratulations


This equipment will have a wider use than only monitoring and regulating a saltwater aquarium. There is probably a demand of such an equipment to monitoring and regulate the nitrification process in fish farms and wastewater plants. Today – pH is used as a monitoring and regulation tool but it’s an indirect function of alkalinity. If you could measure the alkalinity directly is would be more cost effective than today.

It’s a smart use of the pH measurement tool in order to be able to connect to an aquarium computer without waiting for the aquarium computer industry coming out with special expansion cards. However - I can see one limit – at least according to GHL profilux. Their pH controller does not measure higher pH than 10.5 and lower than 3.5. It means that you are only able to use the computer for regulation in the range of 3.5 – 10.5 in KH if I have understand the things right. I do not know with APEX – if it has this limitation also but I was looking for a controller that need to manage both reading and regulate pH up to 14 and one of the few was a Hanna controller.

This maybe has a minor impact for us because we normally runs around 7-9 as KH

The most exciting thing is this that you write in post 213.

Yes, you can treat waste and rinse lines as you suggest. I've dabbled with doing a similar Ca monitor, but put that idea on the "back burner" so that I could just focus on getting the Alkalinity prototype as ready as possible for MACNA in the short time I had.

Then I saw your video from MACNA – the first things coming up in my mind was just the possibility to use the equipment as a titration tool for both alk, Ca and Mg

Once again – congratulations and I think that the equipment will have a bright future



Sincerely Lasse

 

[JimWelsh]

Thanks for answer, i realize you are busy at the moment;-). Well, then I understand, you have made a "salifertrobot", aka, automatic titration device. Do you have a photosensor which tell colourshift and then count the amount acid to that point? and then convert this amount of acid to a voltage in the BNC?. That is very cool, and a smart way, excluding the need of infrared sensors measuring CO2. I still wonder why the measurement fluctuates during photoperiod? After realizing the main mechanism of you excellent invention, i guess this is due to KH and Ca consumption(and not CO2-consumption) by calcification that is more rapid during light period. If you can confirm this i am satisfied with my very first question and again: impressed work, and wish you all luck to getting this device on the market I am impressed

Regards
Jonas Roman

Yes, Jonas, the diurnal swing I observe and describe is due to two factors: (1) I dose Randy's Recipe #1 in small increments evenly throughout the day, so alkalinity supplementation is constant, and (2) Alkalinity demand increases during the day when corals are actively calcifying, and is substantially reduced at night when this process slows significantly.

 

[JimWelsh]

However - I can see one limit – at least according to GHL profilux. Their pH controller does not measure higher pH than 10.5 and lower than 3.5. It means that you are only able to use the computer for regulation in the range of 3.5 – 10.5 in KH if I have understand the things right.

I was not aware of this limitation of the GHL Profilux controller. It could be addressed, however, by providing an option to report the units in meq/L instead of dKH. The lower limit of 3.5, when expressed as meq/L, translates to a value of 9.8 dKH, so there is an "overlap" between 9.8 dKH and 10.5 dKH where the user has the option to change units, so the entire range at which people tend to keep tanks could still be covered. The current device has the ability to output a pH probe voltage within a "pH" range of 0.0 - 14.0.

 

[bif24701]

Holy crap, it took about 12 minutes to register a change from 7 to 11 dkh?!

Hmmm.... Perhaps it's not applicable to emergencies..

12 min is plenty of time. Unless you literally dumped an entire gallon of Kalk with out looking..........

 

[melev]

Holy crap, it took about 12 minutes to register a change from 7 to 11 dkh?!

Hmmm.... Perhaps it's not applicable to emergencies..

Most people that have a disaster like that happen while they are out to dinner for a couple of hours. For example you do a water change, clean your skimmer, and grab a meal. Your ATO full of kalkwasser dumps in a week's worth and you come home to a milky tank (true story that happened to a local club member). To have the Alkalinity Monitor measure THAT often to avoid any type of risk would be costly in reagent. If you had it set to run twice a day, odds are it wouldn't be testing while you're having dinner. Of course you could program it to run continuously and then set it back to normal when you get home. But how paranoid are you? hehehe I sleep every day and wake up to see how my reef is doing, and yes Murphy may strike at any time. Gotta find that happy medium, or go full on OCD and pay to have someone stand next to your tank ready to act.

 

[bif24701]

Most people that have a disaster like that happen while they are out to dinner for a couple of hours. For example you do a water change, clean your skimmer, and grab a meal. Your ATO full of kalkwasser dumps in a week's worth and you come home to a milky tank (true story that happened to a local club member). To have the Alkalinity Monitor measure THAT often to avoid any type of risk would be costly in reagent. If you had it set to run twice a day, odds are it wouldn't be testing while you're having dinner. Of course you could program it to run continuously and then set it back to normal when you get home. But how paranoid are you? hehehe I sleep every day and wake up to see how my reef is doing, and yes Murphy may strike at any time. Gotta find that happy medium, or go full on OCD and pay to have someone stand next to your tank ready to act.

Wouldn't the PH probe catch that?

 

[melev]

Wouldn't the PH probe catch that?

Good point! It should spike in pH, yes.

 

[bif24701]

Either way, this has real usefulness in our hobby and many will chose to buy it dang the cost. However I suspect it will not be completely out of reach of the average to more advanced reefer.

 

[Lasse]

I was not aware of this limitation of the GHL Profilux controller. It could be addressed, however, by providing an option to report the units in meq/L instead of dKH. The lower limit of 3.5, when expressed as meq/L, translates to a value of 9.8 dKH, so there is an "overlap" between 9.8 dKH and 10.5 dKH where the user has the option to change units, so the entire range at which people tend to keep tanks could still be covered. The current device has the ability to output a pH probe voltage within a "pH" range of 0.0 - 14.0.

I´m not sure that I understand all of this but there is one more problem. If the value will be below 3.5 or higher than 10.5 - there will be an alarm. The ProfiLux will see this values as a defect probe! Theoretical - if we use the ideal slope of 56 mV/pH unit - the ProfiLux will se every measurement outside the range of 196 mV (pH 3.5) and below - 196 mV (pH 10.5) as defect probes

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Thales]

I love Jim's device

 

[Alfrareef]

Also!!!
And for intelligent reefers that are discussing how could be done in a more better or simpler way i'm sorry but i must remember that Jim has build it and already with good looking. Posts and talk don't measure KH.

 

[revhtree]

I love Jim's device

Richard I have been waiting to hear about your experience! Looks like it's running well for you!

 

[Thales]

Thanks Dave. I will likely cover this in a publication hosted somewhere else. Please let me know if you change your policy about that kind of sharing of information.

 

[deaclauderdale]

Thanks Dave. I will likely cover this in a publication hosted somewhere else. Please let me know if you change your policy about that kind of sharing of information.

If you wouldn't mind PM'ing the link to said review I'd be eternally grateful.