ReeferBob
Valuable Member
In the post I responded to I was told to "get the facts". Too far back now to remember. But I'm over it.
Can I get a mandarin?
- Thread starter Reef kid
- Start date
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In the post I responded to I was told to "get the facts". Too far back now to remember. But I'm over it.
Lionfish Lair
Renee
This is turning into a confusing conversation......
K theres 2 people in the conversation that have had successful long term success with the species, with references to well known Aquarists that have had amazing long term success.
we can actually have a conversation with them here on this website!!!!
By your same ideology we shouldnt buy zoas or sps. and defiantly not blueberry gorgonians.
If we all nay say the species we keep due to failures and rumor we wont have anything in the tank but water. no bacteria either because no one can agree on that either. and itll take a year to decide on what salt.
Yea mandarin is a tough species. But instead of just saying its gonna die. do what I did. Read back through my posts. I questioned EVERY aspect of the OP's husbandry skills and even questioned the intent and his reasoning on his keeping of the species. I was almost brutally honest. I gave them enough info to help them decide.
We dont know exactly what they eat. Period. They do not survive in the wild on 10,000 tisbee copepods. they eat a lot of stuff we cants see. no one follows them around the clock for months like with wolves and elephants for the past 5000 years to figure it out. fish dont eat flake in the wild do they? we commonly feed our fish foods from the other side of the planet. we feed our coral animals processed bottled made in a factory junk. and thats ok?
but speak of one difficult species, (difficult not impossible), and the world goes wild.
As hobby aquarist we try to domesticate the species and feed what will hopefully keep them in good health as best we can.
in this forum we try to share our successes with others so they can learn from our mistakes and also our successes.
Yea the OP may fail. but sounds like he has a clue and will hopefully try again.
And above all learn.
Lighten up Francis I didn't mean to hurt your feelings
ReeferBob
Valuable Member
Lionfish Lair
Renee
Ah got it...... *sigh*
OK, let's see what we know and don't know.
Mandarins can be difficult to train to frozen. When we are quoting success rates, who has really tried? I mean REALLY tried. I spent literally 1-2 hours a day just on that aspect alone. My OSFF took months to train at these hours. Before we say their conversion rate is dismal, how about we only include the numbers of those that really tried. I'd like to know the success rate of those that poured their guts into it. No one is saying to take this lightly or that it's easy or cheap. I did not enjoy it. When I converted it, it erased all of the pain
People say mandarins will always need pods, even if they eat frozen. That's not true. How do you think mine lived for as long as it did? It's not that my mandarin had different nutritional needs than all other mandarins. It was that their nutritional needs were being met and in this case, they were being met with frozen. There were no pods in my tank. I moved 4 times in 5 years and twice didn't bring the sand with me. There was a leopard wrasse and a pipefish that were faster and ate whatever popped up. If your mandarin is loosing weight while being on frozen, you are not feeding them enough, they are being out-competed or you're not feeding the right food.
My mandy swam up in the water column with the other fish. This is perhaps where mine was a little more "original". They won't do as well on frozen, if your pouring the food in the tank over everyone and waiting for some to trickle down to the mandarin. If they won't go to eat it in the column, you need to bring it to them. A lot of them are bottom huggers. So in this case, it's not that they can't survive on frozen, they are just not getting enough frozen.
I think it's really important to pay attention to what you feed them. I didn't just use one or two food items. I would shave fish flesh to feed. I didn't freeze my food for very long. I fed supplements. Every 2 weeks I would basically rotate through my food and change the variety. I used graphs to make sure I hit all the nutritional markers, which I do for all my fish.
20 years ago they said one couldn't keep seahorses (AND they were my first saltwater fish). Then they said breeding seahorses and meeting their nutritional needs were impossible. They said it was a far fetched dream to keep an Orange Spot Filefish on frozen for very long because we couldn't meet their nutritional needs (that was after it was said they were obligate coralivores and wouldn't ever eat frozen....). I was told Blackfoot lions didn't survive past a month in captivity..... and so on and so forth. None of these things were easy, but every single one were incorrect. You can't expect to find success if you don't try anything "special". You can't just do the same ole failed techniques and then expect your outcomes to be anything but failures. We have to pick up the baton from the one before us and continue on.
OK, let's see what we know and don't know.
Mandarins can be difficult to train to frozen. When we are quoting success rates, who has really tried? I mean REALLY tried. I spent literally 1-2 hours a day just on that aspect alone. My OSFF took months to train at these hours. Before we say their conversion rate is dismal, how about we only include the numbers of those that really tried. I'd like to know the success rate of those that poured their guts into it. No one is saying to take this lightly or that it's easy or cheap. I did not enjoy it. When I converted it, it erased all of the pain
People say mandarins will always need pods, even if they eat frozen. That's not true. How do you think mine lived for as long as it did? It's not that my mandarin had different nutritional needs than all other mandarins. It was that their nutritional needs were being met and in this case, they were being met with frozen. There were no pods in my tank. I moved 4 times in 5 years and twice didn't bring the sand with me. There was a leopard wrasse and a pipefish that were faster and ate whatever popped up. If your mandarin is loosing weight while being on frozen, you are not feeding them enough, they are being out-competed or you're not feeding the right food.
My mandy swam up in the water column with the other fish. This is perhaps where mine was a little more "original". They won't do as well on frozen, if your pouring the food in the tank over everyone and waiting for some to trickle down to the mandarin. If they won't go to eat it in the column, you need to bring it to them. A lot of them are bottom huggers. So in this case, it's not that they can't survive on frozen, they are just not getting enough frozen.
I think it's really important to pay attention to what you feed them. I didn't just use one or two food items. I would shave fish flesh to feed. I didn't freeze my food for very long. I fed supplements. Every 2 weeks I would basically rotate through my food and change the variety. I used graphs to make sure I hit all the nutritional markers, which I do for all my fish.
20 years ago they said one couldn't keep seahorses (AND they were my first saltwater fish). Then they said breeding seahorses and meeting their nutritional needs were impossible. They said it was a far fetched dream to keep an Orange Spot Filefish on frozen for very long because we couldn't meet their nutritional needs (that was after it was said they were obligate coralivores and wouldn't ever eat frozen....). I was told Blackfoot lions didn't survive past a month in captivity..... and so on and so forth. None of these things were easy, but every single one were incorrect. You can't expect to find success if you don't try anything "special". You can't just do the same ole failed techniques and then expect your outcomes to be anything but failures. We have to pick up the baton from the one before us and continue on.
Last edited:
Ah got it...... *sigh*
OK, let's see what we know and don't know.
Mandarins can be difficult to train to frozen. When we are quoting success rates, who has really tried? I mean REALLY tried. I spent literally 1-2 hours a day just on that aspect alone. My OSFF took months to train at these hours. Before we say their conversion rate is dismal, how about we only include the numbers of those that really tried. I'd like to know the success rate of those that poured their guts into it. No one is saying to take this lightly or that it's easy or cheap. I did not enjoy it. When I converted it, it erased all of the pain
People say mandarins will always need pods, even if they eat frozen. That's not true. How do you think mine lived for as long as it did? It's not that my mandarin had different nutritional needs than all other mandarins. It was that their nutritional needs were being met and in this case, they were being met with frozen. There were no pods in my tank. I moved 4 times in 5 years and twice didn't bring the sand with me. There was a leopard wrasse and a pipefish that was faster and ate whatever popped up. If you mandarin is loosing weight while being on frozen, you are not feeding them enough, they are being out-competed or you're not feeding the right food.
My mandy swam up in the water column with the other fish. This is perhaps where mine was a little more "original". They won't do as well on frozen, if your pouring the food in the tank over all the fish and waiting for some to trickle down to the mandarin. If they won't go to eat it in the column, you need to bring it to them. A lot of them are bottom huggers. So in this case, it's not that they can't survive on frozen, they are just not getting enough frozen.
I think it's really important to pay attention to what you feed them. I didn't just use one or two food items. I would shave fish flesh to feed. I didn't freeze my food for very long. I fed supplements. Every 2 weeks I would basically rotate through my food and change the variety. I used graphs to make sure I hit all the nutritional markers, which I do for all my fish.
20 years ago they said one couldn't keep seahorses (AND they were my first saltwater fish). Then they said breeding seahorses and meeting their nutritional needs were impossible. They said it was a far fetched dream to keep an Orange Spot Filefish on frozen for very long because we couldn't meet their nutritional needs (that was after it was said they were obligate coralivores and wouldn't ever eat frozen....). I was told Blackfoot lions didn't survive past a month in captivity..... and so on and so forth. None of these things were easy, but every single one were incorrect. You can't expect to find success if you don't try anything "special". You can't just do the same ole failed techniques and then expect your outcomes to be anything but failures. We have to pick up the baton from the one before us and continue on.
So well said.
its what I do as well. you could cut and paste this into any fish nutrition discussion anywhere.
thanks
Im gonna go glue animals to rocks now.
Lionfish Lair
Renee
LOL! I'm sending that quote to PETA.
OP
OP
Reef kid
Active Member
Wowza debate started lol, Reefer bob. I was just intending to make you realize your previous posts basically said that everyone else didn't know what they were talking about. @Thunt4jr. You said to take a clear breeder box that sinks to keep them in and eventually they will eat it. I really like that idea. Because worst case, I could let him out, munch on some pods for a week the give it another shot.
Wh00pS32
Active Member
10,000 pods a day is way out, a mandarin would have to eat 1 pod every 7 seconds, never sleeping or doing anything else. The true figure is probably up to around 500.
My mandarin is in a 55ltr tank with 2 clowns, no sump or fuge. i bought him when i took my daughter to a LFS that i don't usually visit for some gravel for her freshwater tank. I saw this little mandarin who was very thin and thought i'm gonna rescue him as he's probably gonna die here anyway. 6 months later he's fat and healthy and happy.
Mine doesn't really bother with frozen except for lobster eggs which i feed to the corals twice a week, i do add a small bag of pods every day and these have been enough to bring him back to health and he seems one happy little fish.
The wife is always commenting that he's such a fat little pig.
My mandarin is in a 55ltr tank with 2 clowns, no sump or fuge. i bought him when i took my daughter to a LFS that i don't usually visit for some gravel for her freshwater tank. I saw this little mandarin who was very thin and thought i'm gonna rescue him as he's probably gonna die here anyway. 6 months later he's fat and healthy and happy.
Mine doesn't really bother with frozen except for lobster eggs which i feed to the corals twice a week, i do add a small bag of pods every day and these have been enough to bring him back to health and he seems one happy little fish.
The wife is always commenting that he's such a fat little pig.
Have you thought about adding a mesh lid to your tank instead of an acrylic lid? I made one using bird repellant netting and $2 acrylic rods from lowes. It's kept my gobies and fire fish from escaping without diminishing the lights
Btw- I commend you for being in this hobby at such a young age. It takes patience, dedication and a lot of research to be successful -- so it's great to see you're not just throwing fish in your tank and hoping it works out
OP
OP
Reef kid
Active Member
I think I'm going to do a Five inch acrylic perimeter just on the backside to keep my tubing neater and to hold up the horizontal ats I'm going to do. Thank you for the compliment. It really means a lot especially because so few people understand this hobby that are around me.
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OP
OP
Reef kid
Active Member
Ah got it...... *sigh*
OK, let's see what we know and don't know.
Mandarins can be difficult to train to frozen. When we are quoting success rates, who has really tried? I mean REALLY tried. I spent literally 1-2 hours a day just on that aspect alone. My OSFF took months to train at these hours. Before we say their conversion rate is dismal, how about we only include the numbers of those that really tried. I'd like to know the success rate of those that poured their guts into it. No one is saying to take this lightly or that it's easy or cheap. I did not enjoy it. When I converted it, it erased all of the pain
People say mandarins will always need pods, even if they eat frozen. That's not true. How do you think mine lived for as long as it did? It's not that my mandarin had different nutritional needs than all other mandarins. It was that their nutritional needs were being met and in this case, they were being met with frozen. There were no pods in my tank. I moved 4 times in 5 years and twice didn't bring the sand with me. There was a leopard wrasse and a pipefish that was faster and ate whatever popped up. If you mandarin is loosing weight while being on frozen, you are not feeding them enough, they are being out-competed or you're not feeding the right food.
My mandy swam up in the water column with the other fish. This is perhaps where mine was a little more "original". They won't do as well on frozen, if your pouring the food in the tank over all the fish and waiting for some to trickle down to the mandarin. If they won't go to eat it in the column, you need to bring it to them. A lot of them are bottom huggers. So in this case, it's not that they can't survive on frozen, they are just not getting enough frozen.
I think it's really important to pay attention to what you feed them. I didn't just use one or two food items. I would shave fish flesh to feed. I didn't freeze my food for very long. I fed supplements. Every 2 weeks I would basically rotate through my food and change the variety. I used graphs to make sure I hit all the nutritional markers, which I do for all my fish.
20 years ago they said one couldn't keep seahorses (AND they were my first saltwater fish). Then they said breeding seahorses and meeting their nutritional needs were impossible. They said it was a far fetched dream to keep an Orange Spot Filefish on frozen for very long because we couldn't meet their nutritional needs (that was after it was said they were obligate coralivores and wouldn't ever eat frozen....). I was told Blackfoot lions didn't survive past a month in captivity..... and so on and so forth. None of these things were easy, but every single one were incorrect. You can't expect to find success if you don't try anything "special". You can't just do the same ole failed techniques and then expect your outcomes to be anything but failures. We have to pick up the baton from the one before us and continue on.
What other foods do you use. I find the idea of this really intriguing but am not sure what to feed
Lionfish Lair
Renee
Whatever is on sale and is appropriate..... except lobster, that is like snot when it;s raw. This week I bought salmon and table shrimp. I got two "types" of salmon as one is farmed and the other is wild. They have completely different nutritional profiles. I'm also still using what I bought last week, Cod, clams and Ahi. Sometimes I buy fish for me and hack off some for them. They would eat even better if my husband liked fish, because I would eat it every night. My people are fisherman and we ate it for breakfast growing up, but I digress......
Don't be shy asking for small amounts of fish. The first time I asked my new deli guy for 6 shrimp, he said "six pounds". No six.... 6..... 1,2,3,4,5,6.... 6 shrimp. You know who knows a lot about the fish they get in? World Market. I couldn't afford to feed my fish from there, but they can educate you on the profile of anything, where it came from, etc etc. The one local to me, his eyes light up when you ask questions.
OK, so what I do is cut up the filet, or whatever, into chucks. The shrimp I leave whole. I arrange them on a plate and freeze them.
Then it can be kept as separate little pieces in a baggy.
I use a mini zester to shave the frozen chunks. If I want bigger pieces I press harder, not so big, lighter. Then I just put it in some water and feed it out. This is the exact grater/zester I use.
Keep your food in a chest deep freeze if you can. It's colder. If you use a fridge freezer, keep it all the way in the back and never on the door. This is great food and you don't want to negate all the trouble you're going through by giving them food that is oxidizing. I use a little vacuum to seal the food back up when I remove a piece.
Sabellafella
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Yea why not? Just dont buy one thats crazy skinny , yea they can decimate a whole tanks pods in a week but tru key is getting them to eat frozen or baby brine, ive kept mandarins for 6 years and they all have mates and ive got them all to eat frozen, im sorry but if you kill any fish ur doing something wrong, regardless how hard it is to keep, do your research and if u think u can keep up with one get it, i dont kno why people are making it out to be a nightmare when its not, YES they will die in captivity if they dont have their nutrition and bacteria from their normal diet but you can supply them with one and it takes work, it took me a little more then a year to get one of my mandarins to eat frozen, but others it took a day, theres plenty of ways to keep tanks full of pods , goodluck pal
OP
OP
Reef kid
Active Member
Whatever is on sale and is appropriate..... except lobster, that is like snot when it;s raw. This week I bought salmon and table shrimp. I got two "types" of salmon as one is farmed and the other is wild. They have completely different nutritional profiles. I'm also still using what I bought last week, Cod, clams and Ahi. Sometimes I buy fish for me and hack off some for them. They would eat even better if my husband liked fish, because I would eat it every night. My people are fisherman and we ate it for breakfast growing up, but I digress......
Don't be shy asking for small amounts of fish. The first time I asked my new deli guy for 6 shrimp, he said "six pounds". No six.... 6..... 1,2,3,4,5,6.... 6 shrimp. You know who knows a lot about the fish they get in? World Market. I couldn't afford to feed my fish from there, but they can educate you on the profile of anything, where it came from, etc etc. The one local to me, his eyes light up when you ask questions.
OK, so what I do is cut up the filet, or whatever, into chucks. The shrimp I leave whole. I arrange them on a plate and freeze them.
Then it can be kept as separate little pieces in a baggy.
I use a mini zester to shave the frozen chunks. If I want bigger pieces I press harder, not so big, lighter. Then I just put it in some water and feed it out. This is the exact grater/zester I use.
Keep your food in a chest deep freeze if you can. It's colder. If you use a fridge freezer, keep it all the way in the back and never on the door. This is great food and you don't want to negate all the trouble you're going through by giving them food that is oxidizing. I use a little vacuum to seal the food back up when I remove a piece.
Wow, thanks for all the support guys! I think I am going to set up a fairly large acclimation box. Right now I only have frozen Mysis but I intend to try supplementing with the nicer frozen stuff like salmon or shrimp. I'm hoping my parents will take me to menards today to buy the acrylic and screening I need for this new setup. Also I am hoping to get the supplies for the ats.
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