Color LEDs

dwilliams87

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Greg, I love your build thread. It is a very good thread for seeing what it takes to do a DIY LED light setup. You get all the credit for the thread!
 

reeferee

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Read most of the thread here and I just have a few coments...

1. Adding a few LEDs in red or purple or green to a fixture with 20+ LEDs is only going to give you a small area of coverage in those spectrums. If your corals are large enough you will notice that they do not have a consistent color...only a portion will reflect the red or purple or whatever other color you are using.
2. Ask someone who has used red LEDs for an extended period of time and they will tell you that they have algae problems as a result. Why? Because red light enhances plant growth. If you need proof, just look at any plant fixture in flourescent or LED and you will see that they use red instead of actinic or blue. So if you would like to do more maintenance on your tank, then add some red. Personally, I would rather devote the bulb space to something that the corals utilize and not only make my light more efficient but also reduce the amount of algae and have a consistent spectrum throughout the tank.
3. No one here seems to mention that corals change color over time to adapt to the light they are exposed to. So just because you put a coral under a red or green or purple LED and it appears to "pop" does not mean it will stay that way. If you need proof of this, just ask anyone who has taken a brown acropora and watched itr turn pink, green or blue or any combination of. You can also ask anyone who has taken a pink, green or blue acro and watched it turn brown.
4. Let me here some feedback from someone who has a large tank (not a nano with 6 LEDs on it) or multiple tanks on the same system with the same corals fragged from the same colony that has had a combination of LEDs other than blue and white running for a year or more and we can have a meaningful discussion. Anyone?
 

GHill762

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Read most of the thread here and I just have a few coments...

1. Adding a few LEDs in red or purple or green to a fixture with 20+ LEDs is only going to give you a small area of coverage in those spectrums. If your corals are large enough you will notice that they do not have a consistent color...only a portion will reflect the red or purple or whatever other color you are using.
2. Ask someone who has used red LEDs for an extended period of time and they will tell you that they have algae problems as a result. Why? Because red light enhances plant growth. If you need proof, just look at any plant fixture in flourescent or LED and you will see that they use red instead of actinic or blue. So if you would like to do more maintenance on your tank, then add some red. Personally, I would rather devote the bulb space to something that the corals utilize and not only make my light more efficient but also reduce the amount of algae and have a consistent spectrum throughout the tank.
3. No one here seems to mention that corals change color over time to adapt to the light they are exposed to. So just because you put a coral under a red or green or purple LED and it appears to "pop" does not mean it will stay that way. If you need proof of this, just ask anyone who has taken a brown acropora and watched itr turn pink, green or blue or any combination of. You can also ask anyone who has taken a pink, green or blue acro and watched it turn brown.
4. Let me here some feedback from someone who has a large tank (not a nano with 6 LEDs on it) or multiple tanks on the same system with the same corals fragged from the same colony that has had a combination of LEDs other than blue and white running for a year or more and we can have a meaningful discussion. Anyone?

So much to say here. I'm too far into a Saturday night to respond to everything but I have red leds and love them. Algae is a nutrient problem not a light problem. You obviously don't know shirt about leds.. there is no "purple" maybe you're referring to violet? Of course corals adapt to light, that's why we want full spectrum, so we don't end up with something adapted to cool blue leds.. too far into a reception to go on. I'll be back. Lol.

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reeferee

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Must be a pretty exciting Saturday night out that you are posting on reef2reef and I guess it makes you a physicist because you refer to purple light as violet. I could care less what the manufacturers call it, it's purple. If you think you are getting algae because of your nutrient problem, I would suggest addressing that first, but the red LEDs are certainly making it worse. If you want to have a meaningful discussion and not just try to insult people why don't you give some background on your experience with coral growth under LEDs as I mentioned in the comment:

"Let me here some feedback from someone who has a large tank (not a nano with 6 LEDs on it) or multiple tanks on the same system with the same corals fragged from the same colony that has had a combination of LEDs other than blue and white running for a year or more and we can have a meaningful discussion. Anyone?"

I am happy to overlook your sneid remarks and engage with you if you can provide the details I was looking for. For your reference, I have five tanks connected to one system with four different types of LED. The LEDs have been in place for over two years and I have fifth generation corals that I have personally fragged growing under each. The LEDs I am using are AI Sol, Kessil Tuna Blue, Coralbrite 2352Ds & some old school SWC Xtreme's. None use red or any color other than white or blue because I believe it is a marketing gimmick and the science behind it doesn't make any sense. Further reinforcing that perspective is the fact that two of the five LFS that I supply coral to have turned the intensity down on the red LEDs to almost nothing because they were developing algae problems and did not like the inconsistent spread in their display tanks. So please enlighten me without trying to insult or discredit me.
 

johnanddawn

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for those of you who say we need to add warm whites, reds, greens, etc. - i have a question that i have been thinking about

if cool white LED's do not have red in them already why do our red colors appear red in the tank
i have corals that are red, orange, green, blue, purple, and every shade of color in between in my tank

think about it this way:
our eyes can only see the light that is reflected by the corals and the corals can only reflect red if there is red light in the white
red corals appear to be red because they are reflecting the red light incident on them
and green are green because they reflect green - objects appear to be the color they reflect to our eyes

now of course this is oversimplified in that corals have flourescent pigments that can shift light wavelengths but it is my general understanding that most of these flourescent pigments are excited in the 400 - 550 nm range so adding red LEDs would have no effect on that

so i guess one could hope to increase flourescent coloration by adding some 410nm LEDs instead of the standard 450nm but some argue that these flourescent pigments are a form of protection against such light. so although it may prove to be aesthetically pleasent it may not be healthy for the corals

what am i missing here?
 

gmoney243

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Spectral graph of a 6500k led


Spectral graph of an ati purple plus
uploadfromtaptalk1364429842711.jpg


Take what u want from it.

White leds are full spectrum
 

johnanddawn

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;)

my "question" attempted to reiterate what that graph demonstrates
 

jedimasterben

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There are some red pigments that are fluorescent and excited by 440-450nm, but there are many more that are not, or will not show an intense red like they have previously. Put a pink coral under a cool-white based array and watch the color disappear before your eyes.

I cannot say this enough - use name-brand, warmer whites (in the 4000k range) ONLY as your base, supplemented with royal blue and a small amount of cool blue. This will let you have the color rendition of a 14k halide, but with the fluorescence that ONLY blue LEDs can give, superior to all other types of light.

If you do not, I don't care how 'full-spectrum' your fixture is, or how your cool white and royal/cool blue array gives "great color", it will be underwhelming in comparison to a good halide setup.

You will not have any more algae issues using warmer whites than you would under royal blue only, again NUTRIENTS are what you need to fix, not your lighting!
 

gmoney243

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jedimasterben

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jedimasterben

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Then please enlighten us Jedimaster. If you think you have more knowledge about lighting than someone such as Sanjay teach us all.

Also here some spectral graphs of MH lamps.

Feature Article: Spectral Analysis Of 400w Lamps: XM, Radium, Osram And Sunmaster, PFO ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog

Some 'light' reading for you: LED Aesthetics: What do you really think of your color? - Lighting Forum - Nano-Reef.com Forums

Pay attention to posts by evilc66, blasterman, and DaveFason, who are, IMHO, responsible for where LEDs in this hobby are today.
 

GHill762

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Must be a pretty exciting Saturday night out that you are posting on reef2reef and I guess it makes you a physicist because you refer to purple light as violet. I could care less what the manufacturers call it, it's purple. If you think you are getting algae because of your nutrient problem, I would suggest addressing that first, but the red LEDs are certainly making it worse. If you want to have a meaningful discussion and not just try to insult people why don't you give some background on your experience with coral growth under LEDs as I mentioned in the comment:

"Let me here some feedback from someone who has a large tank (not a nano with 6 LEDs on it) or multiple tanks on the same system with the same corals fragged from the same colony that has had a combination of LEDs other than blue and white running for a year or more and we can have a meaningful discussion. Anyone?"

I am happy to overlook your sneid remarks and engage with you if you can provide the details I was looking for. For your reference, I have five tanks connected to one system with four different types of LED. The LEDs have been in place for over two years and I have fifth generation corals that I have personally fragged growing under each. The LEDs I am using are AI Sol, Kessil Tuna Blue, Coralbrite 2352Ds & some old school SWC Xtreme's. None use red or any color other than white or blue because I believe it is a marketing gimmick and the science behind it doesn't make any sense. Further reinforcing that perspective is the fact that two of the five LFS that I supply coral to have turned the intensity down on the red LEDs to almost nothing because they were developing algae problems and did not like the inconsistent spread in their display tanks. So please enlighten me without trying to insult or discredit me.

I apologize if I came off wrong.. my only point was that if you want to be taken seriously on your opinion of leds you should use the correct terms. It doesn't sound like you have a clue what you're talking about imo..

The algae because of red leds is still just a symptom of a nutrient problem. I like having reds personally, they give the tank a warmer look, and I've blocked them out to see the difference and imo it was significant.

Idk how it's a marketing gimmick when it's diy folks that are using them and trying new things, most manufacturers are just following hobbyist trends for the most part..

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GHill762

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so i guess one could hope to increase flourescent coloration by adding some 410nm LEDs instead of the standard 450nm but some argue that these flourescent pigments are a form of protection against such light. so although it may prove to be aesthetically pleasent it may not be healthy for the corals

what am i missing here?

fluorescence is a strong indicator of coral health..

http://reefbuilders.com/2013/03/12/coral-fluorescence-strong-indicator-coral-health/


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johnanddawn

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This is a very interesting discussion

What about this:
I bought a full spectrum par 38 from coral compultion (I have 6 par 38's that I use to supplement and spotlight my DIY array - you can check out my thread for details if you like).

Anyway I replaced a standard 3 -2 20k spot that was on my sps section with the full spectrum and it had very negative effects (recession from the base, almost lost my M. undata and another monti, and little to no growth for the whole month) I changed it back and within a week I had better polyp extension and even some noticeable tip coloration and growth.

For the past week the full spectrum has been on a zoa section of my tank and I haven't noticed any change ??
In a week or two i will try it over the lps section

i don't know what this means as the varibles were not completely controled and there could have been other factors but obviously i will not be using that bulb to spot my sps anymore - they definitely prefer the rb and cw combo better in MY tank

btw the full spectrum bulb has 1 green, 1 red, 2 violet, 6 rb and 2 cw but has about the same par even though it has a higher wattage (measured with an apogee) because of the wider optics and in the deeper zoa section i am getting slightly lower par readings
 

GHill762

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This is a very interesting discussion

What about this:
I bought a full spectrum par 38 from coral compultion (I have 6 par 38's that I use to supplement and spotlight my DIY array - you can check out my thread for details if you like).

Anyway I replaced a standard 3 -2 20k spot that was on my sps section with the full spectrum and it had very negative effects (recession from the base, almost lost my M. undata and another monti, and little to no growth for the whole month) I changed it back and within a week I had better polyp extension and even some noticeable tip coloration and growth.

For the past week the full spectrum has been on a zoa section of my tank and I haven't noticed any change ??
In a week or two i will try it over the lps section

i don't know what this means as the varibles were not completely controled and there could have been other factors but obviously i will not be using that bulb to spot my sps anymore - they definitely prefer the rb and cw combo better in MY tank

btw the full spectrum bulb has 1 green, 1 red, 2 violet, 6 rb and 2 cw but has about the same par even though it has a higher wattage (measured with an apogee) because of the wider optics and in the deeper zoa section i am getting slightly lower par readings

They aren't used to being hit with full spectrum.. they should have been acclimated to the change in lighting.. and violet is pretty strong...

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GHill762

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Also I don't think you'll notice a change that quick other than just in color rendition (as opposed to the coral actually coloring up)...

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