Corals keep dying... What am I doing wrong?

[Seanb1]

Hi SeanNDenise - I make my own water at home from the city water supply with my RO/DI and 0ppm TDS.

I just started using Aquaforest Probiotic Reef salt (two water changes ago), before that I was using Red Sea Reef Pro (for two years), which would likely explain my higher Alk, I've heard it can cause the Alk swing. When I switched to AF, my Alk after a water change went gradually down to 8.1ish from 12(!).

Well it sounds good then.
I was thinking maybe chlorine or chloramines maybe but seen you haven't had any fish losses.
I use salinity too, switched from rc because of crazy high alk in 3 different buckets 13-16 was mine.
Sounds like you are doing everything correctly.
Only thing I could think of is your lights are too bright, maybe turn them down or not such a long period they are running.
Or maybe you have a bad test kit somewhere and are getting a inaccurate reading.
Or stray voltage, which is easy to find with a paper cut on the finger lol or the smart way with a voltage meter.


Other than that I'm stumped .

 

[Roy 9121]

Great - same boat then, I'll give it a try.

If you call Radion they will probably help you set up your lighting schedule. I would maybe extend you lights another hour or so. Are you using a ramp up time? Of not, maybe leave your time the same but use a 2 hour ramp up.
To be honest though, i don't think your lighting is cause this particular problem. Sounds more like a nutritional problem.

 

[BrettMallette]

High alk+high light+high flow would def kill in days add on low nutrients and its a death sentence. Especially for sps.

 

[brilovescats]

High alk+high light+high flow would def kill in days add on low nutrients and its a death sentence. Especially for sps.

That helps a lot! How much is too much light for SPS though? Peak of 69% too high? I do have a PAR meter, so I'll measure at the peak tomorrow to see. The corals are coming from my LFS though, who also has high light from Radion, I matched his lighting schedule for a bit.

 

[Yojoe10]

I was running a fancy scheme with my radion xr-30 with no luck. I've finally done away with all the peaks and stuff. I do a simple one hour ramp up to about 69 percent, stays there for 7 hour photo period and then ramps down slow the rest of the evening until they go off at 10. This is the lps coral lab setting mildly tweaked I think. Most of my corals are receiving between 75-175 par

 

[Yojoe10]

You might take your par meter to store with you from now on when purchasing a coral a run a quick test to get an idea of what corals are receiving in their systems. I'm starting to do this. My lfs doesn't mind

 

[brilovescats]

You might take your par meter to store with you from now on when purchasing a coral a run a quick test to get an idea of what corals are receiving in their systems. I'm starting to do this. My lfs doesn't mind

This is a *great* idea, not just for me, but for a lot of us out here. Most LFS I've been to have their parameters posted so you can get an idea of what you're working with, but hadn't thought of that one.

 

[reeferfoxx]

BTW aquaforest probiotic is used to maintain nutrients with their complete system. I inquired about using their salt and I was told it's supposed to be used with the component A+B+c or whatever. They have some other drops to help add nutrients. I could be wrong but I don't think that salt contains all the necessary elements. You would have to dose those manually to achieve that "edge" that everyone wants. Personally, I would switch back to a more basic salt with lower alk such at Tropic marine pro, red sea regular, or Fritz. I've found those three to suit low nutrient systems the best.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

BTW aquaforest probiotic is used to maintain nutrients with there complete system. I inquired about using their salt and I was told it's supposed to be used with the component A+B+c or whatever. They have some other drops to help add nutrients. I could be wrong but I don't think that salt contains all the necessary elements. You would have to dose those manually to achieve that "edge" that everyone wants. Personally, I would switch back to a more basic salt with lower alk such at Tropic marine pro, red sea regular, or Fritz. I've found those three to suit low nutrient systems the best.

That's it. The op should be following the full AF system not just half with the salt and components only. Dose no3 and po4 as well. That would make a pretty sweet ulns system.

 

[brilovescats]

That's it. The op should be following the full AF system not just half with the salt and components only. Dose no3 and po4 as well. That would make a pretty sweet ulns system.

Sounds good - I am following the entire AF system, so hopefully it will work out!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Sounds good - I am following the entire AF system, so hopefully it will work out!

You should drop the gfo and stay with the bacteria carbon dose imo. Do you know what supplements they offer for nutrients?
I don't belive that's the a b c.

 

[reeferfoxx]

You should drop the gfo and stay with the bacteria carbon dose imo. Do you know what supplements they offer for nutrients?
I don't belive that's the a b c.

They have the 1,2,3 also. That system is so confusing to me lol

 

[brilovescats]

You should drop the gfo and stay with the bacteria carbon dose imo. Do you know what supplements they offer for nutrients?
I don't belive that's the a b c.

I'll keep an eye on this... I dose Bio S Pro which is their bacterial supplement and -NP which they say is some sort of polymer that increases bacterial growth; I presume that it is some sort of carbon dosing. I used to use NoPOx from RS, but it was causing cyano outbreaks so I stopped. As for GFO, it seems like it would be best to keep it going, at least temporarily - I have a back-and-forth battle with green hair algae, so I'm aiming to prevent this.

For supplements (that aren't nutrients) I dose their Components 1+ 2+ 3+ which is a modified Balling system plus micronutrients (B, K, Fe etc). For nutrients I currently feed the corals Ricco food which seems to be some powdered concoction that you dilute. I have never, ever seen the Ricordea act like they do when they get this food though, they stick out their polyps (is that the right word) as far as they can, and then they pretty much turn themselves inside out to eat it once they've caught it. They love love love it. For LPS/SPS I feed Reef Energy A+B currently, but I have the AF Amino Mix on the way here (supposed to be delivered today, but probably not with our 4 feet of snow falling today).

 

[reeferfoxx]

I'll keep an eye on this... I dose Bio S Pro which is their bacterial supplement and -NP which they say is some sort of polymer that increases bacterial growth; I presume that it is some sort of carbon dosing. I used to use NoPOx from RS, but it was causing cyano outbreaks so I stopped. As for GFO, it seems like it would be best to keep it going, at least temporarily - I have a back-and-forth battle with green hair algae, so I'm aiming to prevent this.

For supplements (that aren't nutrients) I dose their Components 1+ 2+ 3+ which is a modified Balling system plus micronutrients (B, K, Fe etc). For nutrients I currently feed the corals Ricco food which seems to be some powdered concoction that you dilute. I have never, ever seen the Ricordea act like they do when they get this food though, they stick out their polyps (is that the right word) as far as they can, and then they pretty much turn themselves inside out to eat it once they've caught it. They love love love it. For LPS/SPS I feed Reef Energy A+B currently, but I have the AF Amino Mix on the way here (supposed to be delivered today, but probably not with our 4 feet of snow falling today).

Randy Holmes Farley has great articles on nitrates and phosphates and the absorption through calcification for stony coral as well has the uptake from organisms. The red field ratio also explains this. Basically, sometimes feeding isn't enough. The water column needs concentrations of nutrients as much as coral need calcium and alkalinity. The AF probiotic salt with added BIO S and NP help drive nutrients down as well. I would say you have successfully driven all nutrients to zero. This in turn has stripped your water. In a round about way, your tank isn't dirty enough.

 

[themcnertney]

I'd stop all the additives. Do small frequent water changes until things become more stable. Keep things simple man.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I'll keep an eye on this... I dose Bio S Pro which is their bacterial supplement and -NP which they say is some sort of polymer that increases bacterial growth; I presume that it is some sort of carbon dosing. I used to use NoPOx from RS, but it was causing cyano outbreaks so I stopped. As for GFO, it seems like it would be best to keep it going, at least temporarily - I have a back-and-forth battle with green hair algae, so I'm aiming to prevent this.

Im quite familiar yes. But the result of excessive carbon dosing is the absolute reduction of nutrints. Gfo then also strips P04 as well. Fwiw GHA cant be prevented by nutrient reduction.. Just slowed. ,manual removal is required, and constant gardening by CUC is a standard.

What I was suggestion was to use a single easily controlled excess nutrient reduction method(carbon dosing) and supplement with dosed no3 and po4 by dosing. GFo removes po4 with little to no control. As there's clearly no nutrients whatsoever in the tank removing excess in not really a problem..

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

They have the 1,2,3 also. That system is so confusing to me lol

The Red sea maturation program is a really easy to read method. I recommend it as a good primer to advanced control techniques. I read Zeovite a long while back, yea besides a bit difficult to follow the user portion was a bit cultish. It's all the same chemistry though.

 

[BrettMallette]

That helps a lot! How much is too much light for SPS though? Peak of 69% too high? I do have a PAR meter, so I'll measure at the peak tomorrow to see. The corals are coming from my LFS though, who also has high light from Radion, I matched his lighting schedule for a bit.

Check with your par meter. There is no real definite ratio between the two. So id try raising your nutrients or lowering your alk or lowering light intensity. But not all three. I dont have a radion but have an ai hydra and my whites max at 40%

 

[Yojoe10]

Randy Holmes Farley has great articles on nitrates and phosphates and the absorption through calcification for stony coral as well has the uptake from organisms. The red field ratio also explains this. Basically, sometimes feeding isn't enough. The water column needs concentrations of nutrients as much as coral need calcium and alkalinity. The AF probiotic salt with added BIO S and NP help drive nutrients down as well. I would say you have successfully driven all nutrients to zero. This in turn has stripped your water. In a round about way, your tank isn't dirty enough.

I'm going to definitely give that a read as I think it will help me also! Not to hikack the thread but if feeding isn't enough to provide nutrients to water column then what is best to dose? I'm trying stump remover personally right now and I'm adding a crap ton of it just to keep nitrates at below 5 or so! Are broadcast feeds also insufficient at addin nutrients. By broadcast feeds I mean things like Coral Frenzy, Rotifers, Reef Roids etc.

 

[brilovescats]

I'm going to definitely give that a read as I think it will help me also! Not to hikack the thread but if feeding isn't enough to provide nutrients to water column then what is best to dose? I'm trying stump remover personally right now and I'm adding a crap ton of it just to keep nitrates at below 5 or so! Are broadcast feeds also insufficient at addin nutrients. By broadcast feeds I mean things like Coral Frenzy, Rotifers, Reef Roids etc.

Bump.