Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!

maksim serebro

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Can you post a picture of the tank and give a good closeup of the scourge @maksim serebro serebro? You might need a different tactic:0)

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maksim serebro

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They are not visible in the tank. I'm currently using algaefix and low light. Microscopically they are everywhere.
 

dansreef

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Hey guys. Been a few days and I thought I would share a picture of my tank and some things to reflect on.

First.... if you think you have "cured" DINOs I hate to say that isn't possible. All you need is a single Dino or cyst to start growing and if the conditions are right you get a bloom.

Second... there are thousands of different types of DINOs. What I may have .... could be different than what you had. Some are "cured" with light changes, h2o2, algaefix.....etc. many are not.

Third.... I have been fighting these jerks for 14 months or so....and have seen them go away one day and a week or month later....full on bloom. DINOs SUCK!

Fourth.... to positively ID DINOs... get a microscope... if you have kids or just a curiosity...the microscope will come in handy for other purposes. In my opinion....this is the only true way to tell you have DINOs....and by the time your screw around with id'ing the dang things they take off on you. A microscope is a great investment.

Fifth.... BLEACH KILLS.... that is why it works on DINOs. Use it at your own risk. Similar to Metro....that stuff is controlled around here.

Sixth....there is no single silver bullet treatment that works with all varieties of nuisance DINOs. If there were....someone would be making a killing. Persistence is what rules the day. For me.... I dang near chucked it all and gave up. After 14 months...it wasn't fun, enjoyable or rewarding. I am glad I stuck it out.

Seventh.... I am sure my tank and everyone else's tank is not cured of DINOs. You have them in check. I would guess the best approach is to make sure you keep water parameters in check, manage nutrients... let the tank find its "balance"... use proper QT and dipping processes. Do what you can to keep them out, keep them in check and keep them from winning.

I know we all look for the silver bullet. There isn't really one. You need to systematically work with various methods and if something works.....do it. Many of these methods are counter to traditional wisdom. Thank you Twilliard for coming up with the Bleach method. But.... BUT...if you choose to do it....know that there are a lot of risks and you take them on yourselves. For me...I lost some fish and a couple of inverts... I had a crazy cyno bloom that I let take its course....yes I manually removed and used h2o2...and the DINOs came back. I then let the cyno take over again and let it naturally smother the DINOs...which seemed to work. Mind you... early on in this thread I did Metro...and knocked down the DINOs initially. Then they came back big. I then did the bleach method until I lost a fish... and then stopped. I let the cyno bloom.... I removed it and scraped down the sides of the tank....where I am assuming DINO cysts had formed away from the cyno. My fish consumed the materials and I am convinced we're poisoned by the materials. Some could argue that their immune systems were compromised by the bleach.... but the death of 4 fish immediately after the scrapping and several days after the last bleach dose suggests that bleach was not the reason they died.

Today... I am DINO free. I don't see any anywhere in my system. I know that it only takes one organism. So....I will keep an critical eye on everything. By the way...the cyno took about two weeks to fully decline and fade away. It too is still there. I am fine with that. My nitrates are 0 and phosphates are at .10. My algae scrubber is growing algae like crazy, the good brite kind. No DINOs.... I have added some softies and leathers. I am going to replace some fish....and hopefully more corals slowly. All in all things are looking pretty good. That said...I am prepared to do more battle if it comes to that.

Lastly....moral of the story I guess.... there is no quick fix, or silver bullet... don't trust the market place that says their product works. It may on some varieties not all. Patience and perseverance is the key...along with the willingness to take risk. Ok... I need a drink. It is 5' O'clock.....crap it is almost 7:30... I need a drink.

Here is a picture ...a bad cellphone one of my tank.

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terri_ann

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They are not visible in the tank. I'm currently using algaefix and low light. Microscopically they are everywhere.

If you are "positive" it is dino's, the bleach "will kill" them. What was your dosage and how often, and for how many days? I had to dose more than recommended and for more often and for longer than 3 days. I didn't lose any fish or inverts(BTA's, etc)as I had them in a QT/hospital tank. I, like Dan(above) , had many reoccurances. After I no longer thought I had dino's, I got what appeared to be dino's. It was NOT dino's but a GHA and cyano from Hell. I did a few treaments of AlgaeFix. Then, I found out it was cyano by using Chemi-Clean only as after the 1st C-C treatment. The tank was a mess to say the least! 3 doses of C-C and there was still some cyano but liveable:0) It took weeks to finally get the tank back to a normal-looking/healthy tank.
 

maksim serebro

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If you are "positive" it is dino's, the bleach "will kill" them. What was your dosage and how often, and for how many days? I had to dose more than recommended and for more often and for longer than 3 days. I didn't lose any fish or inverts(BTA's, etc)as I had them in a QT/hospital tank. I, like Dan(above) , had many reoccurances. After I no longer thought I had dino's, I got what appeared to be dino's. It was NOT dino's but a GHA and cyano from Hell. I did a few treaments of AlgaeFix. Then, I found out it was cyano by using Chemi-Clean only as after the 1st C-C treatment. The tank was a mess to say the least! 3 doses of C-C and there was still some cyano but liveable:0) It took weeks to finally get the tank back to a normal-looking/healthy tank.

Thanks for the reply! I know it's dinos via the microscope. I posted a pic earlier. I did 1 ml bleach per 10 gal. Lost some fish and some corals. Tried to qt the fish and corals and treat everything separately but to no avail. Either a coral or fish caried it back to dt. How did you make sure the fish didn't carry dinos back to dt? I feel like the whole tank needs to be either treated or all inhabitants given away and start fresh.
 

Reefer1978

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Thanks for the reply! I know it's dinos via the microscope. I posted a pic earlier. I did 1 ml bleach per 10 gal. Lost some fish and some corals. Tried to qt the fish and corals and treat everything separately but to no avail. Either a coral or fish caried it back to dt. How did you make sure the fish didn't carry dinos back to dt? I feel like the whole tank needs to be either treated or all inhabitants given away and start fresh.

Maksim how did you treat the fish?
 

maksim serebro

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Maksim how did you treat the fish?

The first time they were in the tank when bleach was dosed and I lost an anthia the very next day. The second time it was lights out and algaefix for 2 weeks. Both times I eventually see dinos under a microscope. The only corals that survived the metro, peroxide, lights out and bleach are lps. Some chalices got damaged badly with bleach. Not sure if they will recover. Any suggestions?
 

Reefer1978

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The first time they were in the tank when bleach was dosed and I lost an anthia the very next day. The second time it was lights out and algaefix for 2 weeks. Both times I eventually see dinos under a microscope. The only corals that survived the metro, peroxide, lights out and bleach are lps. Some chalices got damaged badly with bleach. Not sure if they will recover. Any suggestions?

I do not believe lights off treat dynos you have, not all dynos are photosynthetic. Algaefix also doesn't work on them. I would separate the fish into a separate tank and slowly lower salinity to 1.012 (you can go as low as 1.010) and keep it there for a month, then raise back up. That will take care of the tank with the fish.

Coral tank I would bleach with the dose you did for a period of time, until you see no more particles. Then introduce large pod population and add phyto daily.

It's not an easy battle, more like a long war that requires strategy.
 

maksim serebro

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I do not believe lights off treat dynos you have, not all dynos are photosynthetic. Algaefix also doesn't work on them. I would separate the fish into a separate tank and slowly lower salinity to 1.012 (you can go as low as 1.010) and keep it there for a month, then raise back up. That will take care of the tank with the fish.

Coral tank I would bleach with the dose you did for a period of time, until you see no more particles. Then introduce large pod population and add phyto daily.

It's not an easy battle, more like a long war that requires strategy.

Thanks! That's actually one of the best advice ive got so far. I have a 300 gal dt so it's hard to treat. I can leave fish there and lower salinity. The few corals that I still have can be moved to qt and treated with bleach. I care more if I loose a fish to bleach than if I loose a coral to bleach. I really feel bad for the fish
 

Reefer1978

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Thanks! That's actually one of the best advice ive got so far. I have a 300 gal dt so it's hard to treat. I can leave fish there and lower salinity. The few corals that I still have can be moved to qt and treated with bleach. I care more if I loose a fish to bleach than if I loose a coral to bleach. I really feel bad for the fish

Lowering salinity of the entire tank can, and likely will impact other organisms In the tank, they die > amonia > etc. be careful
 

terri_ann

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I used a product by Microbe-lift, all natural, called Artemis. Not quite sure on the spelling. I treated as directed on the bottle. I did the treatment prior to putting them in the (dino) tank. I don't know if it helped or not but I wanted something. I did not return the fish and inverts (BTA'S, etc) right away to the tank. I used Algaefix, then added copepods and "live" phytoplankton. I gave the tank enough time to make sure the biological filtration and all params were back to normal and stable. Then, I returned the fish, etc.
 

maksim serebro

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What do I do with anemonies? They can't handle hyposalinity nor can they handle bleach. I only have two bubble tip and a rock anemone
 

maksim serebro

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Should be ok with bleach.

Thanks! Following your advice this weekend. Hyposalinity is the only thing I haven't tried yet. The dinos are remaining constant for now but I know how they can spike and kill everything within days. I had the tank for 1.5 years and all sps were growing well until dinos appeared and killed all!
 

terri_ann

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No, you can lose the BTA with bleach! Put the BTA's , fish, whatever is really sensitive in QT. When the tank is rid of all dinos and you have copepods, etc in the tank, if there are any left on the fish, etc...you shouldn't have a problem.
 

maksim serebro

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Just an update. Following nvladik's advice and lowed salinity in fowlr to 1.012. Have a snapping shrimp in there that i could not catch. It's still alive. Will leave hyposalinity for 1 month to see if dinos die.
 

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