DIY 40g breeder sump design ideas - requesting expert opinions!

[Idoc]

Currently working on setting up my first saltwater aquarium and taking some time to work on my sump design while my live rock is curing. I've read tons on the forums about sump designs and finally sat down and drew out 2 sump proposals for my 40gal breeder sump...to be used on a 75g aquarium (eventually)! Anyhow, I liked the looks of the Trigger Emerald sumps and was trying to come up with a similar DIY design...trying to keep the flow into the sump as quiet as possible and many say the trigger sumps are very quiet in this regard.

I've calculated the power failure flow that will return to my sump at approx 3.8gal (1/2 inch top of DT plus added 2 gal from pipes)...let me know if I've totally screwed this up!!! My aquarium is pre-drilled with only 2 holes in the overflow area...which really limits me to using only a Durso-type drain system. I'm really going to have to protect this inlet from clogging since I don't see how to incorporate an emergency overflow!

The baffle heights are where I think I need the greatest help from some experts!!

Sump Design 1:
I'm leaning toward this design...gives 3 filter socks and will be a little easier to silicone all the glass pieces together! It gives me a slightly smaller Refugium (slightly less than 10% of tank volume) but gives me more space in my skimmer section for additional items for later expansion...and gives me solid walls to attach items to as well. I would prefer to put reactors in the return pump section (which is slightly smaller in this design)...I think I will still have space there for at least one other item later on.

1. I'm looking toward using a 10" baffle to control the height of the sump at this level...my thinking is that a deeper refugium may allow for the lower levels to have less flow for pod growth since maybe the top area will be higher flow to the return section? A change from the design pictured makes Baffle #2 to be 11" instead of 10"
2. Once I have the filter sock area secure in place, I'll be able to actually set in my skimmer to see if it will really need 10"x10" space...specs say it will only need 10"x8" space but that is without the additional filter this skimmer has with it. If I can push Baffle #2 over closer to the skimmer section, then I will either be able to increase my refugium space or the return pump space!
3. Confused on the height of the return section water level and what size baffle I need in that area...help!!

Sump Design 2:
This design gives only 2 filter socks and reduces the skimmer compartment a little...limiting expansion for later (in my opinion). But, it does give me a larger refugium closer to the 10% of DT volume that some have stated is a good goal to try to achieve. It also gives me a bigger Return Pump Section as well...which helps for future reactors, etc...

1. Again, already changed Baffle #2 to 10" height to have a 9" depth to refugium...again thinking a little deeper will allow for slower flow down low in the refugium for pods?
2. Not sure where to put Apex probes and possibly the heater(s) in this scenario...ok to put in sump?
3. Again, confused on the height of the baffles!!!

Sorry for such a long-winded write-up! But really appreciate any feedback experienced reefers can give to make sure this will work well with my setup and allow for possible expansion later!

John

 

[mcarroll]

Either would be OK, but have you considered taking a lot of that space back with an open-sump design without baffles?

It gives you a lot more space and flexibility down the road.

Define what you want the refugium space for and you can customize something for that. If needed, you can install a single wall at the end of the sump and pump water in slowly something like they do for the fuge on MRC's 48" Hi Flow / Reef Sump. But have the rest of the space open.

 

[redfishbluefish]

I have a 40 breeder sump as well. What's critical is determining dimensions for each section to fit whatever equipment you wish to put in there......and to make sure you can also remove that equipment once in your stand. The big thing is your skimmer....make sure you can get it out once everything is in your sump.

Here's my 40B sump.....no bubble traps....didn't need them. I have two 1 1/2 inch drains entering at the two back corners of the sump. On the left, the drain first goes into a 7 inch mesh sock. This section also includes the skimmer (SWC160). The right side of the sump is the refugium. The middle section is the return section that also includes a biopellet reactor and the pump for the dual reactor (off to the right of the sump). Heaters are located in the middle section and the section on the left.

I also have high baffles....and it was calculated as far as wash-back when the pumps got turned off. Water fills up to the top of the baffles, leaving a couple inches from the top of the tank.

 

[Idoc]

Either would be OK, but have you considered taking a lot of that space back with an open-sump design without baffles?

It gives you a lot more space and flexibility down the road.

Define what you want the refugium space for and you can customize something for that. If needed, you can install a single wall at the end of the sump and pump water in slowly something like they do for the fuge on MRC's 48" Hi Flow / Reef Sump. But have the rest of the space open.

I like the idea of a separated sump so the flow can be lower than the rest of the sump. But, without the baffles before the return section, aren't you just asking for bubbles since it sounds like the return pump would be in the same space as the skimmer, etc...? If I walled off a section at the end of the sump for the refugium, then the return pump and skimmer would be kind of close together. That idea would allow for the largest area and easy expansion for sure!

 

[Idoc]

I have a 40 breeder sump as well. What's critical is determining dimensions for each section to fit whatever equipment you wish to put in there......and to make sure you can also remove that equipment once in your stand. The big thing is your skimmer....make sure you can get it out once everything is in your sump.

Here's my 40B sump.....no bubble traps....didn't need them. I have two 1 1/2 inch drains entering at the two back corners of the sump. On the left, the drain first goes into a 7 inch mesh sock. This section also includes the skimmer (SWC160). The right side of the sump is the refugium. The middle section is the return section that also includes a biopellet reactor and the pump for the dual reactor (off to the right of the sump). Heaters are located in the middle section and the section on the left.

I also have high baffles....and it was calculated as far as wash-back when the pumps got turned off. Water fills up to the top of the baffles, leaving a couple inches from the top of the tank.

Thanks for the response! Do you have two drains or did you split the drain...one to go into the filter sock and the other to go into the refugium? Also, is your refugium directly spilling over into the return pump section?

I was trying to have my drain line go down deep into a closed-off area so the water would rise and then overflow down into the filter socks...Trigger sumps does this and others have said it makes the sump very quiet. Using only one filter sock, do you have to change it daily?

 

[TaylorPilot]

Be careful with running your drain line too far down in the sump if you are running a herbie or bean animal design. The full siphon line should only be about 1" below the surface of the water. The reason is during start-up the air will have a very hard, if not impossible, time getting down and out. If it is just a normal open line, then it should be fine either way.

 

[justingraham]

Also Taylor sells the stuff to make ur sump whatever way you want it I just ordered off of him and was a pleasure doing business with.

 

[mcarroll]

aren't you just asking for bubbles

My sump is a 30 Long...only three square feet to work with. I've never had that problem.

A 40B is four and a half square feet. You can do it!!

I don't have a refugium – just an open sump with space for some rocks or whatever – so you may not have much space left in yours if you wall part of it off....but is still should work. Wall off the back 6" of your 40B and you have a space left that's as big as my whole sump!

Keep your flow through the sump at a sensible level – two-to-four-times the size of your display – and give your skimmer a chance to break in. Bubbles shouldn't be an issue. (Blame the skimmer, if anything goes on long term.)

I do use a contraption to contain any bubbles from the drains entering my sump....you would as well.

 

[Idoc]

Be careful with running your drain line too far down in the sump if you are running a herbie or bean animal design. The full siphon line should only be about 1" below the surface of the water. The reason is during start-up the air will have a very hard, if not impossible, time getting down and out. If it is just a normal open line, then it should be fine either way.

Thanks for the info. I would like to run a BeanAnimal setup, but the tank is already setup with only one drain line and no room in the corner overflow box to drill additional holes!

 

[redfishbluefish]

Thanks for the response! Do you have two drains or did you split the drain...one to go into the filter sock and the other to go into the refugium?

I have two drains coming off a 1500 gph Glass-Holes overflow. Here's a shot of the back of the tank:

Also, is your refugium directly spilling over into the return pump section?

It is directly spilling over, short of first passing through an "egg crate" barrier to keep fish from "slipping" over the baffle. I originally had two clowns in the sump.

Here you can see the egg crate fence at the top of the baffle (behind the pH probe holder)

I was trying to have my drain line go down deep into a closed-off area so the water would rise and then overflow down into the filter socks...Trigger sumps does this and others have said it makes the sump very quiet. Using only one filter sock, do you have to change it daily?

My drain line into the sock goes deep. Here I'm holding it in front of the sock area where you can see the valve in the background that friction fits this pipe.

I need to change socks about every four to five days. Note, they are seven inch socks...a whole bunch of surface area.




You can see my sump build in my tank thread HERE....post 11.

 

[HOOPDEEZ]

I also only have two holes pre-drilled on my tank. I plan on running a herbie system where the hole for the return line will be the main drain, and the hole for the Durso drain will become the emergency. I will have to have the new return line come over the edge of the tank though.

 

[Idoc]

I also only have two holes pre-drilled on my tank. I plan on running a herbie system where the hole for the return line will be the main drain, and the hole for the Durso drain will become the emergency. I will have to have the new return line come over the edge of the tank though.

I thought about doing that as well, but I really don't want an external line running into the tank. But I might change my mind since I'm really concerned about not having another drain option in case of a clog in my line. But, might just use a strainer over the drain to protect the opening.

 

[Idoc]

I have two drains coming off a 1500 gph Glass-Holes overflow. Here's a shot of the back of the tank:

Do you have your return going over the top rim of your aquarium rather than up thru the overflow with the 2 drain lines?

 

[lion king]

Similar to the flow thru design I did on my last sump. It's dead quiet. Run a downpipe under the bulkhead with the drain line below the water level. Tune your drain to your return pump output and it will be dead quiet. Skimmer is in 1st section on the platform, I put a rack between the baffles going into the return section for bags of chemipure elite and purigen.

 

[Idoc]

Similar to the flow thru design I did on my last sump. It's dead quiet. Run a downpipe under the bulkhead with the drain line below the water level. Tune your drain to your return pump output and it will be dead quiet. Skimmer is in 1st section on the platform, I put a rack between the baffles going into the return section for bags of chemipure elite and purigen.

Thanks for the info! I like how you did your filter socks! Are those homemade corner pieces holding the bulkheads into the corners or were those purchased somewhere?

 

[lion king]

I got them on ebay but somehow I cant find the link, I'm sure I purchased them under my account but can't find them, sorry. You can find single sock holders around and by doing that and putting one in each corner, I was able to shorten the skimmer section by putting the pump side in between the socks. That way maximizing my refugium section.

 

[Idoc]

I got them on ebay but somehow I cant find the link, I'm sure I purchased them under my account but can't find them, sorry. You can find single sock holders around and by doing that and putting one in each corner, I was able to shorten the skimmer section by putting the pump side in between the socks. That way maximizing my refugium section.

Thanks! Great idea! I only have one return drain coming into the sump... I was trying the 2-3 filter sock idea so I didn't have to change daily! But it sounds like many people are able to get by with one large one and a weekly change...that's do-able! Good thinking on the pump placement to give more refugium space.

 

[lion king]

Oh you're doing it on a 75, that's a single drain right. That on in on a 125 with dual overflows. I have a single 7" on my 90 and change it about once a week.

 

[Idoc]

Oh you're doing it on a 75, that's a single drain right. That on in on a 125 with dual overflows. I have a single 7" on my 90 and change it about once a week.

Yes...the 75g only has one 1" drain... Blockage does concern me, but I'm kind of stuck with this setup unless I do a Herbie overflow design and run the return line up over the side. But, I don't really want the external line...just something else to worry about, lol. If I need to change my design to one sock, I will probably go with a 7" sock setup!

 

[redfishbluefish]

Do you have your return going over the top rim of your aquarium rather than up thru the overflow with the 2 drain lines?

Glass-Holes overflows are small rectangular boxes that do not have the returns as part of the box.

So yes, I'm up over the top. The tank is a custom five foot 90 gallon with 1/2 inch glass and no top plastic trim. So 1/2 inch vinyl L-channel was attached to the pipe and fittings, where the L-channel fits on the top of the glass, holding the pipes in place. Here you can see the back of the tank with the 3/4 pipe coming up from the sump and attaching to a tee at the top of the tank, going left and right.

On the tank side, there are tee's or elbow's attached to four Wye (Y)-LocLines.