Dodged a bullet?

Syntax1235 · Jan 18, 2017

I purchased a mysis eating Copperband from a lfs that looked very healthy. The store uses a small amount of copper in their systems. The fish looked clean and displayed zero signs of stress or sickness.

Before I went to the store I set up a tank for TT method, I use this on all my new fish and my display has been ick free for three years.

I brought the fish home and for some reason I acclimated him to my display and plopped him in.... stupid stupid stupid! The next day when I came home from work I saw three spots on a fin.... luckily I was able to net the fish without much difficulty and place him in my TT tank.

Ok..... visible signs of ick stay on the fish for 3-7 days before they release.... he was in my tank for under 24 hours. I didn't use any bag water, poured the fish in a strainer and then into tank.

How long before I know if I dodged a bullet?

Mike_J · Jan 18, 2017

There is the slight possibility that Ich released from the fish during the short time it was in your DT. In order to be truly confident you "dodged a bullet" you would have to wait out the fallow period of 76 days.

Syntax1235 · Jan 18, 2017

Mike_J said:
There is the slight possibility that Ich released from the fish during the short time it was in your DT. In order to be truly confident you "dodged a bullet" you would have to wait out the fallow period of 76 days.

And the wait begins...

Brew12 · Jan 18, 2017

Syntax1235 said:
I purchased a mysis eating Copperband from a lfs that looked very healthy. The store uses a small amount of copper in their systems. The fish looked clean and displayed zero signs of stress or sickness.

Before I went to the store I set up a tank for TT method, I use this on all my new fish and my display has been ick free for three years.

I brought the fish home and for some reason I acclimated him to my display and plopped him in.... stupid stupid stupid! The next day when I came home from work I saw three spots on a fin.... luckily I was able to net the fish without much difficulty and place him in my TT tank.

Ok..... visible signs of ick stay on the fish for 3-7 days before they release.... he was in my tank for under 24 hours. I didn't use any bag water, poured the fish in a strainer and then into tank.

How long before I know if I dodged a bullet?

The issue is that the visible signs of ich stay for 3-7 days. Low levels of copper can keep ich from growing large enough to become visible, but they are still dropping off and reproducing at a much lower rate. In reality, you may never know if your tank became infected. It could take a month or 2 for the ich to reproduce enough to cause readily visible symptoms and by that time your fish may develop an immunity due to the slow exposure rate.

melypr1985 · Jan 18, 2017

Brew12 said:
The issue is that the visible signs of ich stay for 3-7 days. Low levels of copper can keep ich from growing large enough to become visible, but they are still dropping off and reproducing at a much lower rate. In reality, you may never know if your tank became infected. It could take a month or 2 for the ich to reproduce enough to cause readily visible symptoms and by that time your fish may develop an immunity due to the slow exposure rate.

I agree 100% The only way you can be totally sure, is if you go fallow. Unless you have acanthurus tangs, the odds of your fish showing symptoms soon are low.

Syntax1235 · Jan 18, 2017

So... even if the fish never shows symptoms it is recommended to take all my fish out of the display for 72 days? This sounds a little extreme if my fish do indeed stay healthy.

I wonder what Paul Baldassano would advise?

melypr1985 · Jan 18, 2017

Syntax1235 said:
So... even if the fish never shows symptoms it is recommended to take all my fish out of the display for 72 days? This sounds a little extreme if my fish do indeed stay healthy.

I'm saying if you want to be totally sure that ick isn't present, that's what you would do. I'm not saying you have to, or even that it's recommended.

Brew12 · Jan 18, 2017

Syntax1235 said:
So... even if the fish never shows symptoms it is recommended to take all my fish out of the display for 72 days? This sounds a little extreme if my fish do indeed stay healthy.

That would be the extreme measure to take but it is the only way you could be reasonably sure you don't have ich in your system.

Syntax1235 said:
I wonder what Paul Baldassano would advise?

I'm guessing he would tell you to relax, drink some Grand Marnier, and look at supermodels

I think it really depends on where you want to be long term. If you do want some highly susceptible fish like acanthurus tangs I would probably advise taking your tank fallow. Otherwise, it becomes a much harder decision. Odds are you will be fine if you don't take your system fallow. Especially if you use high quality frozen or live food. The other fear would be a tank crashing type event like a failed heater but again, that could kill the fish outright and make any ich in your system irrelevant.

PaulB runs a very unique system. I'm not sure how much of his success (or method) can be attributed to his reverse flow UG filter. I personally believe that much of his success comes from running ozone in his skimmer. This will kill any parasites that get pulled into his skimmer and help keep their populations down. He also purposely adds sick fish and "muck" that he harvests locally. This is an important concept because if a fish isn't exposed to a parasite for 6 months it will lose much of it's built up resistance. And then, of course, is the fact that he feeds so much live food. His fish are just much healthier than the average hobbyists. The fantastic thing about his system is that he can take a fish with velvet or ich, drop it into his DT, and have a pretty good chance it will live. Not only will his ozone help keep the parasite numbers down, but the parasites will also be diluted by trying to feed on his immune fish. I feel this dilution helps prevent the sick fish from being exposed to lethal levels.

Syntax1235 · Jan 18, 2017

I guess it boils down to risk. I do have a sailfin... if he/she shows symptoms then I may just QT my fish and upgrade to a 180 like I have wanted to for a while now.

I wonder how many of us have QT'd every single thing put in their tank including inverts, chaeto etc.? If not, there's always a chance of ick, isn't there?

Brew12 · Jan 18, 2017

Syntax1235 said:
I guess it boils down to risk. I do have a sailfin... if he/she shows symptoms then I may just QT my fish and upgrade to a 180 like I have wanted to for a while now.

I wonder how many of us have QT'd every single thing put in their tank including inverts, chaeto etc.? If not, there's always a chance of ick, isn't there?

Inverts and coral both are a very real risk. Chaeto, not so much since it doesn't have hard surfaces for ich to attach to. I think this is why it is good husbandry and great feeding practices are so important. They are the safety net for when we don't get QT correct.

Brew12 · Jan 18, 2017

Syntax1235 said:
I do have a sailfin... if he/she shows symptoms then I may just QT my fish and upgrade to a 180 like I have wanted to for a while now.

Not sure how I missed this. You have an excellent "canary" in your coal mine. If it doesn't show symptoms you are in pretty good shape.

Humblefish · Jan 18, 2017

It's also possible the three spots you saw on a fin were just Lympho: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/lymphocystis.257461/

Syntax1235 · Jan 18, 2017

Humblefish said:
It's also possible the three spots you saw on a fin were just Lympho: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/lymphocystis.257461/

That is a possibility as well. Lympho that I have seen has usually looked like clumps.

I'm putting the cb through tank transfer so I'll be able to observe it quite closely. Going to give it a good dose of live black worms.