Does hydrogen peroxide clear the water? Wow!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, it is interesting to postulate how hydrogen peroxide would potentially kill bryopsis.

Hydrogen peroxide is known to oxidize Fe++ to the much less soluble Fe+++ in seawater:

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es00162a012

Many organisms are known to take up Fe++ preferentially over Fe+++. People, for example. While it is not entirely established (best I can determine) what forms of iron are taken up by marine algae, it has been suggested in the scientific literature that Fe++ may be important. It is formed by various redox reactions, including some photochemical reactions, from the more prevalent Fe+++ in surface seawater, increasing the bioavailability of iron.

So if one is constantly adding hydrogen peroxide to an aquarium, the iron may be forced to mostly stay in the less bioavailable Fe+++ form, and organisms that need a lot of iron (which includes algae) may become deficient.

Couple that with the readily seen effect of dosing iron on some types of macroalgae, and this seems a reasonable hypothesis of how such a method might work.

 

[scardall]

oxidizer question capacity

Question on the oxidizer device. One of them says upto 30 gal. Is that 30g of actuall watter as I have a SW Fish only 45g tank with 5 different kinds of macro algae?

 

[Paul B]

I think Ozone would be a lot safer than peroxide as it leaves the water a lot faster. I have been using ozone continousely in my reef turned all the way up with no controller (in my large skimmer) for about 40 years. I never shut it off. No problems yet. The problem with people stating that cyano, bryopsis or hair algae disappeared by adding or removing something a mistake because truth is that all of those things leave on their own. If you keep a tank long enough, you will see that. 5 or 10 years may not be long enough to notice these cycles. Here is my tank maybe 15 or 20 years ago, (I don't remember) You can see it is literally covered in hair algae. It was like that for a couple of months, then all of a sudden it cleared with no help from me, no oxidators and no hydrogen peroxide. It cleared because algae is self limiting and when it exhausts all it can from the water, it dies in a matter of hours. This is the cause of all the rumors of what kills nusience algae.
It also went through cycles of cyano, bryopsis, Godzilla Larvae etc.

 

[Eric N]

Dosing

I mix Peroxide with 2x saltwater to keep it from floating straight up, shut off all water movement, then use a turkey baster to treat spots. I've been increasing the amount I dose every time to experiment, and the highest dose of peroxide I've ever used is probably 200 mL of 3% peroxide in 120 gallon tank, which is probably 100 gallons of water. So, 2mL per gallon. Everything (except the bryopsis I targeted) is alive, but my acros lost a lot of green pigment (or gained brown) on their sunny sides. They're recovering. Based on the patterning I think I would keep the lights off for a day after a high dose because it seemed like only the most well lit places lost the green, like it was a cooperative mechanism that required both to do the damage. In general, corals that can retract or that produce a lot of slime seem to tolerate peroxide more. The peroxide appears to react with their mucus so it protects the coral itself.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is it better than Nopox?

NOPOX is carbon dosing like vinegar and vodka. It accomplishes entirely different goals. Carbon dosing is best for reducing nutrients, especially nitrate, and in driving bacterial growth that may provide food for filter feeders.

 

[Amphibious]

Well, what you are claiming isn't entirely true. Hydrogen peroxide does not break down instantly into water and O2 the "second' it hits seawater. It can last for a half hour or longer in seawater. See the EPA report linked below. It also has lots of different effects and products in seawater, including oxidizing iodide and iron into more oxidized forms).

I don't see how the oxidator would work different on bryopsis than direct dosing if your assertion were true, since the hydrogen peroxide produced in the device would similarly break down rapidly.

However, having the hydrogen peroxide there 24/7 seems a likely reason it might work better than direct dosing.

I just have to stress again, as evidenced by this effect, that hydrogen peroxide is not a benign chemical. It irritates and kills things. If you are desperate to kill a pest (like dinos), it may be worth exploring. If you have a nice tank and want to make it better, this wouldn't be my choice.

http://www.epa.gov/opp00001/chem_search/cleared_reviews/csr_PC-000595_12-Jul-07_a.pdf

Thank you Randy, for correcting my mistake and the article link. In my excitement over results using peroxide in the Sochting Oxydators, I misstated what happens with directly dosed peroxide. Sorry.

Dosing peroxide using the oxydator, the peroxide is in an inverted chamber with a pin hole at the bottom. Inside the chamber is a catalyst which separates the extra oxygen atom trapping it at the top of the chamber. This forces tiny amounts of peroxide out of the pin hole into an unglazed (porous) ceramic chamber which slowly releases it into the aquarium as pure water and pure oxygen. One of the benefits is an increase in redox potential.

While I am not a scientist, I have been intensely involved with SW aquariums for the past 50 years, reading, studying, putting into practice, observing, trying, failing and reaching some degree of success. I’ve owned retail, and wholesale, establishments. Currently, I have an aquaculture company in FL. At 77, I’m supposed to be retired but this is a passion. In other words, I’m a well seasoned aquarist.

I know the dosing of peroxide works better with the Sochting Oxydator because I’ve tried various percentages of peroxide strength direct dosing and I’m witnessing better results with the oxydator without the guess work.

You stated above, "If you have a nice tank and want to make it better, this wouldn't be my choice.†I respect your education, wisdom and choice. It is through your writings I have gained much of my knowledge and I truly appreciate that!

The picture above is the left side of the two tanks connected with a large sump that I’m dosing 7% peroxide in two Sochting Oxydators. There are many corals, clams, fish, and shrimp. All are looking mighty good, IMHO.

Again, thank you, Randy, I appreciate what you do for us.

Dick

 

[Amphibious]

Question on the oxidizer device. One of them says upto 30 gal. Is that 30g of actuall watter as I have a SW Fish only 45g tank with 5 different kinds of macro algae?

I initially installed one Model A Oxydator on my coral colony and frag system which has a total capacity of 150 gal including the large sump. The Model A is rated for up to 400 liters (105 US gal). So I was stretching it’s capacity and hoping for results. I soon realized, the oxydators are rated for a reason. When I installed the second oxydator things began to happen.

If you have five different kinds of macro algae, I have to assume you are growing them for a purpose. Correct?

What result would you be looking for adding an oxydator? To answer your question, the Model D is good for 100 liters or 26 US gallons. On my web site it states, “up to about 30 gallonsâ€. I was taking into consideration the displacement of water by sand and rock. You would have to make the determination as I haven’t seen your tank.

Dick

 

[Amphibious]

i was stating that if it did have a measurable effect on nitrate we could measure it better...it just has an after effect on algae making the tank look great (pics on page two) and that leaves a lot of room for guessing how that was attained.

if you are curious about what we do know of tank interactions at the macro level regarding adding peroxide to a running reef, heres some opinions:
https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/ma...42-reef2reef-pest-algae-challenge-thread.html


there are some animals that can die at any dilution, lysmata being the worst and not much else.

I’m assuming you mean target dosing peroxide as opposed to using the Sochting Oxydator. Here’s a pic...

of one of two Lysmata shrimp in my system climbing on the Sochting Oxydator. The other one is in the picture posted above. I see know problem with shrimp as I have several snapping shrimp in the sump of this system, my pod population has exploded and my clams have shown no adverse affect to this form of peroxide dosing. I also have spaghetti worm in the LS, snails, hermits, etc. Nothing has shown an ill effect of the dosage.

Dick

 

[scardall]

When I was saying I have 5 different kinds of algae in my tank, that is what appeared on it's own. The rock in the tank was all dry/white originally and because I don't really take proper care like i use to these algae's just start growing out on their own. So I was thinking I could use an oxydator. Model A is likely marginal in ref. to capacity of my tanks actual water volume. So I'll have to what for my dividend check to pick up the next model up.

Thanks: Scott

 

[Amphibious]

When I was saying I have 5 different kinds of algae in my tank, that is what appeared on it's own. The rock in the tank was all dry/white originally and because I don't really take proper care like i use to these algae's just start growing out on their own. So I was thinking I could use an oxydator. Model A is likely marginal in ref. to capacity of my tanks actual water volume. So I'll have to what for my dividend check to pick up the next model up.

Thanks: Scott

Hey Scott,

An important note; I put in bold the most important part of your post. Using an Oxydator for algae control does not relieve an aquarist from their normal maintenance duties. Water changes are still very important as they replenish needed components of SW that get used up. You must maintain calcium, alkalinity, Ph, Magnesium and salinity, etc.

You mentioned earlier your tank volume was 45 gallons. If that is accurate then the Model A would be the correct size as it is good for up to 400 liters (105 gals). A bit larger capacity than you need but you can regulate that down by using only one actuator in the chamber (it comes with two actuators).

Alternatively, you could use two Model D, which are good for 100 liters (26 gals).

Dick

 

[calistyle]

I've used 3% h202 diluted w/ tank water (1:1) and it didn't do anything to the bryopsis I had. In fact, after the 2nd dose, I'm pretty sure the bryopsis actually laughed at me.

That said, I don't have Bryopsis now (new tank), but I have an insane amount of red cyano, and small patches of hair algae. I do like some benefits of h202, but don't like the idea of spot dosing it.

That said, I bought the Oxydator (A version - up to 106 gallons) and I'm going to place in my sump. I feel this is the safer route, and should be more effective than occasionally spot targeting the tank with a much more potent hit.

 

[Paul B]

Clean your glasses with hydrogen peroxide and your tank will look clearer

 

[brandon429]

We do see not only lysmatas but delicate fw bee shrimp using peroxide in an oxydator. the oxydator tones down the effects of straight dosing for sure. straight dosing will beat far more algae issues but can be harsh and doesnt have to be anyones go to 1st option, try others first. using an oxydator has no known sensitives ive known about them for a long time.

 

[mocika]

I have Sochting Oxydator but dont have catalyst. I see some reefers are using silver or weigh lead in DIY oxydator. Im not sure is this ok and i would like to ask if someone here have experience with some other materials using for catalyst.

 

[hart24601]

Whenever I see peroxide dosing threads I generally add what my experience has been, so I will do so here too since I continue to dose from time to time.

I have large ceramic rock, I can't remove it for external spot treatment, but I was fighting bryopsis. There is some still in there I am sure, but whenever I notice a patch now I turn off pumps and add 3% peroxide with a pipette directly on the stuff. I have had great results from treating this way and have not noticed a new spot in months. It bubbles and after around 1-2 days turns white and herbivores eat it when they previously ignored it. I don't dose very much, 20ml max in 120g generally, but I have not noticed any reactions from my inverts (I don't have a BTA though). Clams, cleaner shrimp, fire shrimp, peppermint, various urchins - none seem to react or care when I do this treatment. The shrimp are recent additions but have been through at least 3 treatments just fine.

Recently I have been fighting bubble algae. Thanks LFS! Anyway there are lots of species of BA but the ones I have seem very susceptible to peroxide. I don't let the bubble get very large, but a little bit really makes them go white. Trouble is nothing still wants to eat them... Trying some more emerald crabs. I do notice them picking at the white bubbles more, but they need to step it up!

I have never had a desire to dose any other way aside from spot treatment.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have Sochting Oxydator but dont have catalyst. I see some reefers are using silver or weigh lead in DIY oxydator. Im not sure is this ok and i would like to ask if someone here have experience with some other materials using for catalyst.

I would not put lead into a reef tank in any form.

I'm also not sure what you'd be using the catalyst for. I presume the goal of such a system in a reef tank is not to produce O2, , which is what a catalyst is typically used for with hydrogen peroxide. If the goal is reaction with organics, reducing yellowing or some other aspect of the organic matter, I wouldn't presume that a silver catalyst will help rather than hurt,

 

[mocika]

Tnx Randy. I want to have more O2 in my reef to help my battle with bryopsis. Also i want more O2 for the fishes. I dont want to put directly hidrogen peroxid in the tank and thats why i want to do it with oxydator.

 

[Jax5on]

heres a rock i treated with zoas on it. first pic is right before treatment. second is the next day. and the third is a week after treatment.



no loss besides some pods that were in the algae. ive been dosing 1 ml of 3% h202 per 10 gallons for a month or so now and have had great results so far. im not responsible for others results. just wanted to share a little of my experience.

Sorry to bring back an old thread but that green hair algae covered rock, did you dip in h2o2 solutions outside of the tank or was it mainly dosing 1ml per 10g straight into the tank for a month or so?