Brew12
Electrical Gru
Ok. Its late here so I'm calling it a night soon. I'll try and look at your results in the morning.
Fairly new reefer looking for any and all advice!
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Brew12
Electrical Gru
Your phosphates and nitrates are both high. Definitely justifies doing a large water change. And, you should review your feeding habits. It is likely you are overfeeding your fish.Update with some pictures .. Magnesium level would probably be around 1500 I'd say. Didn't seem to have any problems with that. Will test everything again because my results seemed quite skewed.
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Be102
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This is really seeming to be my problem overall. The three cubes of food definitely caught up to me and the whole canister filter isn't doing much help removing the excess nutrients. Would you recommend I just shut down the canister filter all together ? I really wish there was an easy guide for the plumbing stuff needed to start to set a sump up. No clue what else is needed besides the overflow and sump itself.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
I wouldn't use the canister filter, but I would keep it as it could come in handy.
Think of a sump as an extension of the main tank itself. You need a way to get water to the sump (typically gravity) and to get water back to the tank (typically a pump). The sump is a great place to hide equipment. I put heaters, skimmer, temp and pH probes, and sock filters in mine along with a refugium.
All you "Need" is an overflow, sump, and return pump. Everything else is optional. I didn't design mine to use a sock filter, so I have to fight with that when I want to use one.
This would be a fairly basic sump design. The water drains in on the left. It then goes into a skimmer section which is where most people also keep their heaters. The middle baffle with the fish cutout maintains a constant height so the skimmer operates properly. The next section is the refugium where most people would grow chaeto and amphipods. It then goes through the next set of baffles to strip out bubbles and provide mechanical filtration into the return section on the right. This is where your return pump would go to pump the water back into the aquarium.
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Be102
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I wouldn't use the canister filter, but I would keep it as it could come in handy.
Think of a sump as an extension of the main tank itself. You need a way to get water to the sump (typically gravity) and to get water back to the tank (typically a pump). The sump is a great place to hide equipment. I put heaters, skimmer, temp and pH probes, and sock filters in mine along with a refugium.
All you "Need" is an overflow, sump, and return pump. Everything else is optional. I didn't design mine to use a sock filter, so I have to fight with that when I want to use one.
This would be a fairly basic sump design. The water drains in on the left. It then goes into a skimmer section which is where most people also keep their heaters. The middle baffle with the fish cutout maintains a constant height so the skimmer operates properly. The next section is the refugium where most people would grow chaeto and amphipods. It then goes through the next set of baffles to strip out bubbles and provide mechanical filtration into the return section on the right. This is where your return pump would go to pump the water back into the aquarium.
For the canister filter, Just unplug it and remove from the tank?
Is there a reason people have such intricate sumps with insane pvc piping skills? I am quite overwhelmed and am under the impression that all the stuff you listed was exactly what I need. I need to measure how much actual space is provided inside my tank's stand and go from there. Is there any disadvantages to using the filter socks? I was watching a video last night claiming that filter bags aren't able to provide the best filtration, as opposed to a carbon reactor. I am just unsure if I should completely plan this under tank setup or basically just add it as I go along and purchase more stuff, yet the piping and whatnot would be a bad idea for that route.
Do you recommend any specific return pumps? I am just a little confused on how the water is going to return into the tank besides the pump. Does it go back into the overflow? Is that why there is two or more different holes? Like the biggest blank I reach is the ' what now' at the end of the sump.
if the bio filter is broken it wont break down no or po.
a water change wont fix Po. po binds to rock and sand.
i have a tank with no mechanical or chemical filter. I have normal and actually low nutrients. I feed hard to keep them up.
I was growing acros in a tank with only an aquaclear this year.
its the water.
Ammonia is all you should be concerned with at this point IMO.
once you fix the water the first problem you will have is that algae will take over like mad. If you scrub it out now and use a high volume mechanical filter to strain it out it will stay out of the tank.
google dictyota, and look at your powerhead.
a water change wont fix Po. po binds to rock and sand.
i have a tank with no mechanical or chemical filter. I have normal and actually low nutrients. I feed hard to keep them up.
I was growing acros in a tank with only an aquaclear this year.
its the water.
Ammonia is all you should be concerned with at this point IMO.
once you fix the water the first problem you will have is that algae will take over like mad. If you scrub it out now and use a high volume mechanical filter to strain it out it will stay out of the tank.
google dictyota, and look at your powerhead.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
There is a reason for the massive amounts of pvc piping and intricate sumps. Advanced aquarists like to use all sorts of reactors and dosing equipment. Options are very popular. For someone new, you just shouldn't worry about this.
Your tank is a mini ecosystem. One life forms waste is another life forms food. Its works best when everything is balanced but we can't achieve that (at least most of us can't). We add nutrients when we feed. The nutrients must eventually be removed. Our fish food (consumed and otherwise) ends up breaking down into a few basic parts. One of which is phosphates, which can be consumed by both algae and bacteria. Another byproduct is ammonia. Bacteria break ammonia down to nitrites and different bacteria convert nitrites to nitrates. These nitrates can also be used as food by algae. So by growing and then removing algae, we pull nutrients out of the tank to make up for the ones we add. A skimmer also helps remove nutrients before they are completely broken down. Water changes are yet another way we remove nutrients that build up in the system from feeding.
My advice is really to keep things as absolutely simple as possible. Believe it or not, you will be just fine with a simple HOB filter and a HOB skimmer. Its not even a bad place to start. You can have an amazing aquarium using nothing but these 2 things if the rest of your feeding and maintenance practices are good. All adding a sump does is add complexity. It isn't doing anything special other than provide a hidden place for equipment.
My 55g has a 30g tank for a sump. I use an eshopps pf1000 overflow and a DC4000 return pump. I have one pipe from the pump, and one pipe from the tank.
my water volume is probably only 55 gal, once you consider sand and rock
My return rate is extremely high, this is based on MY husbandry style and the livestock in my tank.. Were you to use this system, you would probably turn it down to less than half.
my water volume is probably only 55 gal, once you consider sand and rock
My return rate is extremely high, this is based on MY husbandry style and the livestock in my tank.. Were you to use this system, you would probably turn it down to less than half.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Here is an example of a sumpless tank. Not too bad imo!
The rest of their thread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a-dream-come-true.272613/#post-3278635
The rest of their thread
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a-dream-come-true.272613/#post-3278635
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Or check out this thread. This is a 120G system with 2 powerheads and an HOB skimmer. No dosers, no additives, no mechanical filtration. Just a guy who knows what he is doing.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/two-year-update.216920/#post-2491830
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/two-year-update.216920/#post-2491830
Basic return rate calculation.
total water vol x desired return rate= gph of pump needed. - head loss(amount of pressure lost in long tubes) my tank loses little as its a 40 in strait pipe from pump to tank.
it important to match the return pump gph to the overflow gph. if you have 700gph from the pump, a 500 gph overflow will, overflow the tank.
But its a great example of why the bio filter is most important. It does the majority of the work for you.
With todays amazing skimmers and powerheads and additives is is amazingly common to have TOO FEW nutrients in a tank, as our helping hands are now helping too much.
Most forget you need No and Po in the tank to feed the coral AND bacteria. with a large coral bio load and a larhe sand and rock volume you can strip the tank of nutrients.
Thats how those tanks work. the coral and bacteria ARE the filter, so to speak.
Water
You dont HAVE to use rodi. that's true. but after several years here and working with hundreds of folks using many sources combined with my own experiences, I can safely say I can usually spot source water probs right away. The difficulty with bottled water is we dont know what is in it . I have met folks here using bottled water and have zero probs.Tap water and well water too.
when you make bottled water you take everything out, and to make it taste good and make sure you dont die from drinking it, you put minerals back in. who knows what those are. I personally have seen illness from crews drinking cheap bottled water for long periods, the employer was hoping to save 35 cents.
Using rodi is merely an assurance there is nothing in the water to interfere with mineral and bacterial content of the saltwater solution we are mixing, and cultivating in our petri dish.
Many organisms can tolerate these impurities but many cant. canary in a mine.
total water vol x desired return rate= gph of pump needed. - head loss(amount of pressure lost in long tubes) my tank loses little as its a 40 in strait pipe from pump to tank.
it important to match the return pump gph to the overflow gph. if you have 700gph from the pump, a 500 gph overflow will, overflow the tank.
Wish mine looked like that.Or check out this thread. This is a 120G system with 2 powerheads and an HOB skimmer. No dosers, no additives, no mechanical filtration. Just a guy who knows what he is doing.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/two-year-update.216920/#post-2491830
But its a great example of why the bio filter is most important. It does the majority of the work for you.
With todays amazing skimmers and powerheads and additives is is amazingly common to have TOO FEW nutrients in a tank, as our helping hands are now helping too much.
Most forget you need No and Po in the tank to feed the coral AND bacteria. with a large coral bio load and a larhe sand and rock volume you can strip the tank of nutrients.
Thats how those tanks work. the coral and bacteria ARE the filter, so to speak.
Water
You dont HAVE to use rodi. that's true. but after several years here and working with hundreds of folks using many sources combined with my own experiences, I can safely say I can usually spot source water probs right away. The difficulty with bottled water is we dont know what is in it . I have met folks here using bottled water and have zero probs.Tap water and well water too.
when you make bottled water you take everything out, and to make it taste good and make sure you dont die from drinking it, you put minerals back in. who knows what those are. I personally have seen illness from crews drinking cheap bottled water for long periods, the employer was hoping to save 35 cents.
Using rodi is merely an assurance there is nothing in the water to interfere with mineral and bacterial content of the saltwater solution we are mixing, and cultivating in our petri dish.
Many organisms can tolerate these impurities but many cant. canary in a mine.
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Be102
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Thanks for this, It starts to make sense that all my problems could be from my over feeding / water parameter problems. Have you ever used a calcium test kit from sailfert? I honestly tried 3 times and was unable to get the solution to change color. I just got my RO/DI unit delivered and will be attempting to set it up. I'm thinking about unplugging the canister filter later and emptying it as well. Would you find it more beneficial to do 1-2-3 large water changes these next few days? Will a few 5 gallon changes change much at all? or can I just do those daily for a week or so? My idea is that i have such a nutrient problem that is just circulating around the tank. Its not catastrophic however it is surely harming my tank as a whole.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Have you tested for Ammonia and Nitrite yet? I would expect both to be zero but it is worth checking.
I would do one large water change per week for awhile. Which salt are you using again? And did you ever retest Alkalinity?
practice, and u tube.
id def clean it. the only thing a mechanical filter does is remove organics before it rots and goes to the skimmer. not cleaning it just gives it a place to rot.
it is because theres no bio filter.
IMO a five or ten gal water change once a week would be fine. its still going to be a month before you SEE results. IMO faster is worse-er
yup. the only minor concern is going from low alk to high alk too fast.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
This +1. If you don't see any immediate changes by doing regular water changes, that is a good thing. As Salty links in his signature ""Nothing good happens fast in this hobby only bad things happen overnight, if you think you go slow, slow down even more" - Diesel". If you see immediate change on something, you should be afraid. Salt water aquariums are all about stability and balances. Most marine life will thrive in a wide range of conditions as long as those conditions are kept stable.
Not sure he has anything in the tank that would be impacted by a change in alk. Or that he would even see one. Improved testing ability is key!!! But I do agree this is generally a very big concern.
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Be102
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Currently just got a result of 0 Nitrite and in between a .25 and .15 Not really sure which one exactly. I will remove the canister filter and hopefully it doesn't decrease my flow too much. Is it worth me even trying to test for iodine and the other tests? (strontium, oxygen, silicate and copper?) I am going to retry my calcium test for a fourth time to see if I can get any results.
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Nope, those other tests are a waste for right now.
Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate are the most basic tests. Once you consistently get 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrite you can stop testing for those.
pH is another very basic test you should do regularly. This test you should do weekly pretty much forever imo.
Nitrate and Phosphate are great to look at if you have an algae or bacteria problem. These are the easiest way to measure nutrients in your water.
Calcium and Alkalinity are for coral health more than anything. Alk will impact pH though which is important to keep in mind.
Worry about the other stuff when you get these basics down. Those other tests are based on maximizing coral growth and colors. You need to get to the point of keeping them alive first.
Your best investment would be a couple of buckets of salt. You can skip the testing etc. and do what we call a tank reset. Change 10-20% of your water every day or two until your first buckets half gone. At this point your parameters will be pretty close to those of the salt you use. Clean those powerheads and frag racks too. Baste your rock to get the detrius out when doing your water changes. You don't need to dose anything but the new clean water.
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