Fallow periods: Going Fishless

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by Humblefish, Jan 31, 2015.

  1. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad Expert Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member

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    Brook, uronema, velvet and bacterial infections will all show visible physical symptoms within 1 month of purchase. Usually much sooner: 1-2 weeks. So even those who choose not to treat with anything and just observe for 1 month will save their DT a world of hurt. Only two diseases - ich and flukes - can harbor inside the gills, out of sight, for longer than a month.
     
  2. shoelaceike

    shoelaceike Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    So if I lose a pair of clowns now to brook, I can get more clowns in 2 months without a worry? (Assuming the new ones are healthy...) This is all with other fish in the tank not showing any signs during this period.
     
  3. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad Expert Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member

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    To clarify, my post above was more about newly acquired fish and the timeline to show visible physical symptoms of diseases they are already carrying.

    You are inquiring about skipping the fallow period for brook in your DT and if no other fish show symptoms, introducing more clownfish in 2 months, correct? That is a tricky question to answer. In theory yes, if no fish show symptoms of brook after 2 months then you should be good to go. However, there is some anecdotal evidence that fish treated for brook and then placed back in the same environment will build up a temporary immunity to the disease following second exposure. This usually only lasts 6 months max before full blown symptoms are seen again. During this time, the fish can still be carriers and infect other fish.
     
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  4. shoelaceike

    shoelaceike Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    Thanks. In this situation, the other fish in the tank were not treated so according to this, if they are carriers, they would have or will very soon show symptoms..... Therfore, I should be ok in 2 months.....however, strangely the clowns in question were with me for about 6 months with no issues....I had no other fish with brook yet these 2 got it now......unless it came in on a coral or something..... They happened to have got it soon after a move making me believe they were carrying it around and suppressing it until the stress of the move came....
     
  5. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad Expert Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member

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    FWIW; Here is a scenario I encountered with brook ONE TIME that I still can't adequately explain:

    A lady's clownfish (reg ocellaris, I believe) had an outbreak of brook in a nano reef, so she gave them a bath using a product which contains formalin. Against my advice, she put them right back in the DT and the clownfish didn't have a recurrence. This I've seen before, as outlined above. A full year later she moves a couple hours away, breaks down the nano and sets it back up at the new location. Shortly thereafter, the clowns get brook again. She gives them another formalin bath, throws them back in the tank, and it's been a year or two now and all is still well. o_O

    Now... I've seen this done before with very different results. The clownfish either keep getting brook or the 6 month rule applies. But this is the first and only time I've seen fish go more than a full year without showing symptoms, and symptoms only return it seems once the fish are "stressed". It's very possible what is known about brook and its life cycle is not fully understood by science.
     
  6. shoelaceike

    shoelaceike Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    Well this is somewhat similar to my situation. I had 2 clowns die of brook 6 months ago....soon after i got the 2 that just died of brook.....there were times the clowns didn't look great but they always pulled through until the move....
     
  7. edosan

    edosan Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    As I promise, here is my tank after the fallow, happier than ever
     
  8. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad Expert Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member

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  9. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad Expert Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member

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    Can't believe I forgot to add this in here -

    If you want to test whether or not your fallow period has been successful, do this: Go buy a couple of freshwater black mollies. Drip acclimate them into your DT over a 3-4 hr period. Remember to temperature control their water, add an airstone to provide oxygen, and use a little Prime if you suspect ammonia is starting to build up.

    Any (freshwater) diseases the mollies were carrying will be eradicated once they are in full saltwater. So, no need to QT them. However, mollies have no immunity whatsoever to marine diseases, so ich/velvet will show up easily (and quickly) against the black contrast. This is why they are such a good "canary fish" to test whether any diseases are still lurking in your fallow aquarium.

    You can keep them if you like or convert them back to full freshwater. They are pretty good at eating GHA, I believe. However, they typically don't like high flow if you have an SPS aquarium.

    This article has more info on keeping mollies in SW: http://hubpages.com/animals/Keeping-Breeding-and-Raising-Saltwater-Mollies
     
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  10. edosan

    edosan Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    Thanks!, check the new one (I like it a bit more) in my signature ;)

    Very good idea about Mollies! thanks for sharing that!
     
  11. michellejy

    michellejy Well-Known Member

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    I wanted to double check on the fallow period for brook/velvet. I had read elsewhere that people recommend 10-11 weeks, the same as ich. Is there a reason you recommend 6 instead?
     
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  12. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad Article Contributor Partner Member

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    6 is recommended because the life cycle is different/ shorter. Most of us say to go the whole 76 days just to be safe and sure that all parasites (ich, brook, velvet) have been starved out.
     
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  13. Twisted_Blenny

    Twisted_Blenny Active Member

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    have a question about this? lets say you throw some mollies in and you do see signs of ich again after the fallow period. do you have to start the fallow period again the whole 76days?
     
  14. scott021467

    scott021467 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Mollies are susceptible to marine ich. But ask around to verify that.
     
  15. edosan

    edosan Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    Hello, actually mollies are susceptible to marine ich, and the black ones can be used to check if there is ich in a tank.

    And yes, if a fish show signs of ich, means that you need to start all over again. Is the cycle of the parasite.
     
  16. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad Article Contributor Partner Member

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    Once the molly is switched over to saltwater (slowly) it certainly can get ick. The theory here is that since the molly has never before been introduced to marine ich it would be the most suseptable fish and being black would be obvious if it were infected.
     
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  17. scott021467

    scott021467 Well-Known Member

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    I stand corrected..I learn something new every day..lol
     
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  18. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad Expert Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member

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    ^^ Agree 100%
     
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  19. TCFletch

    TCFletch Well-Known Member

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    How long would it take a Molly to show signs of ich/velvet? Mine has been in the sump for 3 weeks and loves it in there! No signs of anything wrong with the Molly. Does this mean that my tank is ich free?
     
  20. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad Expert Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member

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    Typically, 1 week max. However, there is a flaw to the black molly test now that I stop and think about it. Let's say your DT was infested with the "72 day variant" of ich discovered during the Colorni and Burgess study. The study states:
    Does theront excystment taper off significantly and become erratic after 6 days? If you put the black mollies in on Day 30 (for example), but more theronts weren't released by the tomonts until Day 45 (for example); then 7 days wouldn't be enough exposure time for symptoms to show. (Remember, free swimming theronts have to be present in the water to latch onto the fish, become trophonts and white dots to show up.)

    For this reason, it would be best not to do the black molly test until after the 76 day fallow period IMO.
     
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