Giesemann/ATI T5 lamp comparison - pics, PAR, and a whole mess of data

[jedimasterben]

(For viewing this document as a single post, please click here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WHuol0uRn2W7Jk-rxYWmtNgUF-lkY_VlUpAiNsMwME4/pub )

So I am relatively new to the T5 scene. I’m more an LED guy myself, but the same principles apply (it’s all physics anyway). My first T5 added were a pair of ATI Coral Plus, which are gorgeous standalone lamps. Come lamp replacement time I was looking for something with a touch more blue, but not so significant as using blue lamps, so I tried a pair of Giesemann Lagoon Blue, which, frankly, were horrific. They were described as ‘a turquoise blue color’ which i thought would be cool, but in reality it was far from it, just a drab white lamp with a slight yellow tint, it actually made some of my non-fluorescent stuff look worse, was really unimpressed with how unbalanced they were.

Fast forward a few months, I then saw in a discussion that Coralvue was the distributor for Giesemann’s new lamp line. They reworked a few of the lamps from the old D-D line and added some new ones, increased their output, and changed the name on some. I talked with Chris from Coralvue about it, and he wanted to send me a couple of them to use to see how I liked them. He originally sent one Aquablue Coral and one Actinic Blue. I personally couldn’t really tell the difference between them and the ATI Coral Plus and Blue Plus that they replaced. PAR was pretty close between them on my Apogee sensor, within margin of error (slight victory to the Actinic Blue versus the Blue Plus, and slight victory to the Coral Plus versus the Aquablue Coral).

Fast forward another few months and I again talked to Chris and he offered to send me some more of the lamps to try out, this time six in total to be able to see different combinations. This time I also purchased six ATI lamps from Marine Depot in the same corresponding colors to do a comparison to share, just getting some pictures of different combinations and getting some basic PAR numbers.

It took quite a while to get everything ready. I was waiting for a Nano Box Reef retrofit to a 6x39w ATI Sunpower to arrive, and when it did it was unfinished due to a delay in some of the electronics, but once everything arrived, I reassembled everything and got to it.

Keep in mind I don’t have nearly the amount of coral to compare as some do, and on top of that most have non-fluorescent pigmentation.

ATI Lamps
2x Blue Plus

Coral plus
(unfortunately, one of the Coral Plus lamps I received was defective, so I wasn’t able to get any photos of two of them alone)


2x Purple Plus

2x Blue Plus and 2x Purple Plus

2x Blue Plus, 1x Coral Plus, and 1x Purple Plus

Giesemann lamps
2x Aquablue Coral

2x Actinic Blue

2x Super Purple

2x Actinic Blue, 2x Aquablue Coral

2x Actinic Blue, 2x Super Purple

2x Aquablue Coral, 2x Super Purple

2x Actinic Blue, 1x Aquablue Coral, 1x Super Purple

And last we have a mixture of the two brands' white/purple lamps.
1x Aquablue Coral, 1x Coral Plus, 1x Purple Plus, 1x Super Purple

The above combo actually looked the best to me out of all of them IMHO. Plenty of fluorescent response, and every non-fluorescent color still expressed.

And here is a shot of the lamps themselves when running.

Left to right
Coral Plus, Actinic Blue, Blue Plus, Aquablue Coral

Super Purple, Purple Plus, Coral Plus, Aquablue Coral

 

[jedimasterben]

And now for something a little different. Coralvue had some of the Giesemann lamps sent to a third party lamp manufacturer and asked for them to do things like spectral output graphs, lumen data, electrical data, etc. Data was also collected for some ATI and D-D Powerchrome lamps, as well, but I’ve removed the D-D lamps as they are no longer in production. The third party did not wish to be identified (I think they were worried if Giesemann or ATI didn't like the results that they might sue, etc), so take these for what you will, but keep in mind that each lamp had over 600 data points that were measured, across 20 tests (each lamp tested twice, and some duplicate lamps were sent), for a total of 12,000 data points. It would be rather… tedious to change juuuust the right ones.


Spectral measurements were taken using a Gooch & Housego OL 756 Spectroradiometer (double monochromator).


Radiometric and luminous output data was collected using a Labsphere LMS-3M integrating sphere, measurements at 10†distance, no reflectors.


I have uploaded each spreadsheet containing the raw data (which includes functions to produce a spectral graph based on each reading of each individual wavelength from 200-800nm) to Google Sheets for easy viewing. The caveat to that is that, unlike Excel, it does not connect each point using a line, so the graphs on the linked spreadsheets are just points on the plot. I have pulled the graphs out of Excel and have uploaded them separately and will post each with the appropriate data.


First up, let’s take a look at the electrical, luminous, and PAR characteristics for each of the tested lamps. The lamps were tested twice each - once brand new out of the box, the other with 100 hours of burn time. (sorry for the screenshot here, there is no easy way to put a spreadsheet onto the forum, so if you want a better view, you can find the full data set here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...mYXMTWmGRKb-0VVxTik/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true )

ATI Aquablue Special
0 hours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ICV08bbHWAS45TK8B6jEVDKGr8gOrZM6B-cfYtWozZY/pubhtml

100 hours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xOVWjx9oyesrRWZHdLQ-J55UYJdUAupipcRJ2DXTzrg/pubhtml

ATI Blue Plus
0 hours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LPzdUSR-aJsp-oQFfhK3H4gJA-vVLSptYkeV9N08DWE/pubhtml

100 hours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17_ANHWiTm1jFtXxnpUbUqVa2ZtDNuApbseyqaKyG-b8/pubhtml

ATI Coral Plus
0 hours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l5ModHvc5AW_3lp4b2SXad53SKj8LC1Oq9kMKtivV3I/pubhtml

100 hours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IkVJVFRlojSSR7VsPA0rSQQ4YCaWNUcClIE0NYNcyUQ/pubhtml

ATI True Actinic
0 hours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1v8sDnhaP4XhhUKcvl_AZHIr-5Nk9Td1DPwMDM1mavk4/pubhtml

100 hours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ijY2fdTVIAa4cIj-J_MVr2sbSGWPJSLMiXDU7OehcjQ/pubhtml

Giesemann Actinic Blue
0 hours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JHBJmE535F4ltHVzZqLYxQUpNV-1AXrQZ6VHWR9EI6o/pubhtml

100 hours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ws1v9ulo8ge78YGxZB_lz81h1H2rQqz_3OQYHt11jio/pubhtml

Giesemann Aquablue Coral
0 hours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1CKsrjFgwovod64XrC2NxhT8L8A1bNC3HU3J-hIe52Rs/pubhtml

100 hours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1qELjRQKdLDaSBpkJ15pmJbXIDPPWNXXqi8AoMRBHsRY/pubhtml

Giesemann Lagoon Blue
0 hours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pvipmh4_a1yo_NYCW3C-FhxeR9r4DpDtc5rmixKujfg/pubhtml

100 hours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ghC1kDjui7yghJRnXW3wzkh3teHTvwW7ErOu157jP8w/pubhtml

Hopefully that gives a little bit of data on these new lamps to show that Giesemann’s new line is better than what they could do previously.


Now, which combo would I recommend? Well, that’s 100% personal preference. I really am not tied to using any of the four T5 in my Sunpower because I have the tank pretty sufficiently covered with two rows of LED arrays.

However, I’ve been playing with using a pair of the lamps for a couple of hours per day. When no LEDs are on, using one white (Aquablue Coral or Coral Plus) and one blue (Actinic Blue or Blue Plus), IMHO it doesn’t look all that great. I know most people use and adore that 1:1 lamp combo, but to me, it is bland. I am not a fan of overly blue tanks, and a 1:1 ratio is overly blue. Adding a purple lamp (Purple Plus, Super Purple) helps a little, but still not ‘white’ enough IMHO.


None of these combinations would be inherently better as far as growth is concerned, as their PAR is pretty similar, so using all blue lamps or all white lamps will grow corals as well as a mixture of the two. Lots of people will still tell you ‘10K for growth, 20K for color’ but IMHO it has more to do with the extra intensity from ‘10K’ bulbs than in the spectral change (it takes more energy to make blue photons than it does green or red, so you can make more photons [meaning more PAR] with green and red). The only exception is for violet bulbs (Super Actinic, True Actinic), as violet have far lower total photons emitted, so much less PAR. These should only be used in 6-8 bulb combinations if you need to lower intensity but still want to use all the bulbs.


So pick whichever combo you think looks best over your tank and let your corals grow!

 

[jeremy]

Wow! Great Info. Thanks for taking the time to put the Info together. Great looking tank too. A couple questions. Were the par numbers from your nano box Fixture and what ballasts are in those. Thanks

 

[jedimasterben]

Wow! Great Info. Thanks for taking the time to put the Info together. Great looking tank too. A couple questions. Were the par numbers from your nano box Fixture and what ballasts are in those. Thanks

The PAR numbers inside the spreadsheet were from the spectroradiometer. I think that Philips Advance ballasts were used for that test, they're the most common in Germany.

 

[swk]

Bravo! Thanks for this. Amazing set of data to have compiled in one place.

 

[revhtree]

Love this very detailed review! Thank you!

 

[jedimasterben]

The PAR numbers inside the spreadsheet were from the spectroradiometer. I think that Philips Advance ballasts were used for that test, they're the most common in Germany.

Just wanted to make an edit, the PAR numbers are from the integrating sphere, not the spectroradiometer

Bravo! Thanks for this. Amazing set of data to have compiled in one place.

No problem, I was glad to have been able to be apart of it and got to geek out over it lol. When Chris sent me the first email with some of the data from the lamps, I was like AWWWW YEAHHHH

Love this very detailed review! Thank you!

Thanks rev!

 

[swk]

Ha! Too bad you didn't get a sample of the aqua blue azure. That's s very popular bulb from their new line.

Some interesting surprises with par readings from 0-100 hrs!

 

[Sangheili]

Tons of useful data, thanks again Ben.

Two of my wishes...

1) Pac Sun bulbs tested
2) All bulbs tested again after 2000ish hours.

 

[Amphibious]

When it comes to judging the eye pleasing merits of one bulb over another, or one technology over another, I have to “see†it to judge it. Doesn’t matter whether PC, MH, LED or T5, it’s, how does the aquarium look according to what my brain/eye sensor “sees†the subject. Viewing charts, graphs, and rows of numbers means nothing to my brain. It all just kind of blurs together with the one exception being PAR numbers. I have and use my PAR meter regularly. All that being said...

Thank you jedimasterben, for taking the time and having the interest to compile and share this very informative post. I have been an LED fan since buying the first LED fixture PFO put on the market in 2005. I’ve run the gauntlet of manufacturers with LED lighting looking for the right combination of LEDs, electronics, price, and reliability. Thought I had it narrowed it down to one brand that fit the bill, the Photon series. Then on a trip to Germany last July I stopped at Korallen-Zucht’s retail store (makers of the ZEOvit system) and spent a couple of hours talking to the owners, Thomas Pohl and wife Regina. They use T5 exclusively and highly recommend T5s to get the combination of color and growth.

Well, we all know how costly testing various combinations of lighting fixtures and bulbs can be, I waited until I expanded my frag system this week. I bought a 6x54 ATI Dimmable SunPower T5 fixture and a mixed case of 10 bulbs. The system is in the plumbing stage so no pics at this time. But, your information will prove very valuable in picking the bulb combination.

Thanks again.

Dick

 

[jedimasterben]

Ha! Too bad you didn't get a sample of the aqua blue azure. That's s very popular bulb from their new line.

Some interesting surprises with par readings from 0-100 hrs!

The Azure was set to be the same as the D-D 'Lagoon Blue', which was a horrific lamp that didn't match the advertised spectral output at all, it was so drab in color that it completely put me off of trying any other Giesemann lamps for a while, until the new line came out.

Tons of useful data, thanks again Ben.

Two of my wishes...

1) Pac Sun bulbs tested
2) All bulbs tested again after 2000ish hours.

Pacific Sun is another Sylvania-produced lamp (just like ATI and Korallen-Zucht) so their lamps are basically clones. Pacific Sun is out to prove T5 lighting is still a worthy contender ? Advanced Aquarist | Aquarist Magazine and Blog As long as those spectral graphs were not normalized for output, they should have the same intensity and same PAR as both ATI and KZ.

As for readings and such at 2000 hours, the 'wear and tear' on the lamps will depend on many factors - ballast factor, ballast starting type, lamp temperature, how many times the lamps were started, etc, and these factors can greatly change the effect on the lamp's useful spectral life. If someone has great cooling and only starts the bulbs once daily and runs them for 12 hours, but instead of a proper T5HO programmed-start ballast (such as HEP or Philips brand) they have a rapid or instant start ballast (such as the Fulham Workhorse line) it will dramatically shorten the lamps' spectral life, so it's difficult to get an accurate picture of what they will do over time. Also, that would probably be expensive as all get out for as much time as it would take

When it comes to judging the eye pleasing merits of one bulb over another, or one technology over another, I have to “see” it to judge it. Doesn’t matter whether PC, MH, LED or T5, it’s, how does the aquarium look according to what my brain/eye sensor “sees” the subject. Viewing charts, graphs, and rows of numbers means nothing to my brain. It all just kind of blurs together with the one exception being PAR numbers. I have and use my PAR meter regularly. All that being said...

Thank you jedimasterben, for taking the time and having the interest to compile and share this very informative post. I have been an LED fan since buying the first LED fixture PFO put on the market in 2005. I’ve run the gauntlet of manufacturers with LED lighting looking for the right combination of LEDs, electronics, price, and reliability. Thought I had it narrowed it down to one brand that fit the bill, the Photon series. Then on a trip to Germany last July I stopped at Korallen-Zucht’s retail store (makers of the ZEOvit system) and spent a couple of hours talking to the owners, Thomas Pohl and wife Regina. They use T5 exclusively and highly recommend T5s to get the combination of color and growth.

Well, we all know how costly testing various combinations of lighting fixtures and bulbs can be, I waited until I expanded my frag system this week. I bought a 6x54 ATI Dimmable SunPower T5 fixture and a mixed case of 10 bulbs. The system is in the plumbing stage so no pics at this time. But, your information will prove very valuable in picking the bulb combination.

Thanks again.

Dick

I'm with you - I couldn't even begin to tell you how many spare LEDs I have sitting in my closet from testing different combinations to see for myself what would be one path to pursue further. Boggles my mind (and wallet lol)

I kinda wish that I had gotten my Sunpower unadultered before retroing the LEDs in so I would have had all six lamps to work with to get some data on six lamp combinations. Hindsight is 20/20

 

[bfam4t6]

DUDE!!! I've been looking for a thread like this for a few years. Every time I buy bulbs I go through this.

So far I've only had a chance to skim through it, but I really like what I'm seeing.

THANK YOU. Seriously, you spent a decent chunk of your time on this write up. Nice work. I, and I'm sure many others, really appreciate it!

 

[Battlecorals]

WOW nice work Ben! I am actually running some of the 65k Tropics. Pretty unflattering but one in an 8 bulb fixture works for propagation purposes quite well. Personally not a fan of the coral+ or any of that pinkish spectrum bulb aesthetically.

 

[jedimasterben]

DUDE!!! I've been looking for a thread like this for a few years. Every time I buy bulbs I go through this.

So far I've only had a chance to skim through it, but I really like what I'm seeing.

THANK YOU. Seriously, you spent a decent chunk of your time on this write up. Nice work. I, and I'm sure many others, really appreciate it!

I'm glad everyone likes it - it did take quite a bit of time to do! Heck, it took two weeks (8 hours per day) to break in every pair of lamps before I wanted to take any pictures of them, so that's a three months time in and of itself!

WOW nice work Ben! I am actually running some of the 65k Tropics. Pretty unflattering but one in an 8 bulb fixture works for propagation purposes quite well. Personally not a fan of the coral+ or any of that pinkish spectrum bulb aesthetically.

Wanna know a secret? My absolute favorite standalone fluorescent is a 5000K EcoSmart bulb from Home Depot. Still get some fluorescent response (not 'punch you in the face' kinda fluorescent, but enough for me ) and they are a pure, crisp white visually, they don't have the more yellow tone that you'd see from 'white' metal halides or even lamps like ATI Aquablue Special. I used them when I first moved my tank to its location now, and combined with some fresh live rock from the Caribbean it just looked fantastic.

but shhhh, don't tell anyone else about that

 

[bfam4t6]

I'm glad everyone likes it - it did take quite a bit of time to do! Heck, it took two weeks (8 hours per day) to break in every pair of lamps before I wanted to take any pictures of them, so that's a three months time in and of itself!


Wanna know a secret? My absolute favorite standalone fluorescent is a 5000K EcoSmart bulb from Home Depot. Still get some fluorescent response (not 'punch you in the face' kinda fluorescent, but enough for me ) and they are a pure, crisp white visually, they don't have the more yellow tone that you'd see from 'white' metal halides or even lamps like ATI Aquablue Special. I used them when I first moved my tank to its location now, and combined with some fresh live rock from the Caribbean it just looked fantastic.

but shhhh, don't tell anyone else about that

3 months!! That's dedication my friend. I don't know who you are, and what you do for a living, but somebody with a business in this industry would be very smart to scoop you up into their labor force. You offer a VERY professional presentation. Again, thanks for all the hard work man!

 

[jedimasterben]

3 months!! That's dedication my friend. I don't know who you are, and what you do for a living, but somebody with a business in this industry would be very smart to scoop you up into their labor force. You offer a VERY professional presentation. Again, thanks for all the hard work man!

Thank you for the kind words, I very much appreciate it

 

[declanisadog]

Fantastic write up! I will definitely be using this for reference. The increase in PAR on the actinic bulbs is pretty insane

 

[jedimasterben]

Fantastic write up! I will definitely be using this for reference. The increase in PAR on the actinic bulbs is pretty insane

Thanks! Yeah, that difference is pretty crazy. Just wish they could have done the Giesemann Super Actinic to compare, and also the Super Purple and Purple Plus

I overlaid some of the lamps' spectral graphs over each other. Blue are ATI, Red are Giesemann.


Coral Plus and Aquablue Coral

Aquablue Special and Aquablue Azure (I just realized I've been calling it Lagoon blue)

Blue Plus and Actinic Blue

 

[ncfishguy]

Bump for a great review

 

[Jeremy@CoralVue]

Great review Ben. The time you put into this is greatly appreciated. Your tank looks good.

Since CoralVue became US distributor of the Giesemann line I have been testing the new Giesemann POWERCHROME bulbs over a frag tank tied to the main system. I have come to appreciate the full spread of light which seams to bring out the richness in color within corals. I have also visited Adam at Battle Corals and seen his coral raceways illuminated by full length T5 fixtures and his corals looked as if every coral had been photoshopped in real life.

So far I am a fan of the actinic blue, aquablue azure and aquablue coral bulbs in particular but really would like a warmer look than what I am currently running over the frag tank. After reading your review I may just ditch the actinic blue and place a super purple or tropic. Any suggestions?