Giesemann/ATI T5 lamp comparison - pics, PAR, and a whole mess of data

[jedimasterben]

Great review Ben. The time you put into this is greatly appreciated. Your tank looks good.

Since CoralVue became US distributor of the Giesemann line I have been testing the new Giesemann POWERCHROME bulbs over a frag tank tied to the main system. I have come to appreciate the full spread of light which seams to bring out the richness in color within corals. I have also visited Adam at Battle Corals and seen his coral raceways illuminated by full length T5 fixtures and his corals looked as if every coral had been photoshopped in real life.

So far I am a fan of the actinic blue, aquablue azure and aquablue coral bulbs in particular but really would like a warmer look than what I am currently running over the frag tank. After reading your review I may just ditch the actinic blue and place a super purple or tropic. Any suggestions?

The Tropic (I forgot to mention that I also received one of those with the first Aquablue Coral and Actinic Blue I got last September) has quite a bit of red and more amber/orange than the Azure or Super Purple. How many lamps in total are you using? I would probably still keep the Actinic Blue in there to keep the corals looking good, still need some blue in there for that

 

[Jeremy@CoralVue]

I have a total of 4 lamps. The AquaBlue coral and azure are a bit blue or what I would consider a 50/50 bulb. Throughout the testing I have always kept an actinic or super actinic lamp in the mix. Right now I have two AquaBlue corals, one Aquablue Azure and a actinic blue which is a bit too blue for my tastes.

 

[TJ's Reef]

Another PLUS 1 to a fantastic write up Ben, some great info for people to work from here. You know me not being a fan of 'Avatar' like lighting on Reeftanks either, much preferring a crisp blue WHITE light (12-14K-ish) or what you'd see while snorkeling a shallow Reef. This is also great info for us LED DIY guys out there in being able to recreate a favorite T5 lamp with bin selected emitters to match. I'd like to think that I created an improved Phoenix 14K lamp on my DIY array using there first released spectral charts years ago. Anyhow KUDOS brother, well done.


Cheers, Todd

 

[shred5]

I recently wanted to do something similar but just with par.

I just switched from ATI bulbs to Giesemann but I also switched to a Giesmann matrixx fixture (very nice fixture and replaced a ATI fixture) and have noticed allot more color and growth. I have the super purple bulb and dont like the look of it but I am afraid to switch it out because my corals seem to love this bulb..

Right now I am running : (2 super actinics) (2 actinic blues) (1 super purple) (1 aquablue coral)

I have to say I am impressed.

I really want to try the aquablue Azure instead of the purple.

What is weird is only 3 Giesemann lamps were tested?
Where are the super actinics?

Also looks like something is wrong.. The ATI actinic goes up in lumens and par after 100 hours in use. Something is fishy there and not just a couple either...

 

[jedimasterben]

I have a total of 4 lamps. The AquaBlue coral and azure are a bit blue or what I would consider a 50/50 bulb. Throughout the testing I have always kept an actinic or super actinic lamp in the mix. Right now I have two AquaBlue corals, one Aquablue Azure and a actinic blue which is a bit too blue for my tastes.

Hmm. I would try swapping one of the Aquablue Coral with a Tropic and see if it's more in line with what you like - they are very bright to the eye thanks to the extra green (much above the ABC) so that should pretty well negate the bluer look. It should also increase PAR by quite a bit, too!

Another PLUS 1 to a fantastic write up Ben, some great info for people to work from here. You know me not being a fan of 'Avatar' like lighting on Reeftanks either, much preferring a crisp blue WHITE light (12-14K-ish) or what you'd see while snorkeling a shallow Reef. This is also great info for us LED DIY guys out there in being able to recreate a favorite T5 lamp with bin selected emitters to match. I'd like to think that I created an improved Phoenix 14K lamp on my DIY array using there first released spectral charts years ago. Anyhow KUDOS brother, well done.

Cheers, Todd

Thanks man! It's really good to know that people appreciate it, big time sink!

I recently wanted to do something similar but just with par.

I just switched from ATI bulbs to Giesemann but I also switched to a Giesmann matrixx fixture (very nice fixture and replaced a ATI fixture) and have noticed allot more color and growth. I have the super purple bulb and dont like the look of it but I am afraid to switch it out because my corals seem to love this bulb..

Right now I am running : (2 super actinics) (2 actinic blues) (1 super purple) (1 aquablue coral)

I have to say I am impressed.

I really want to try the aquablue Azure instead of the purple.

What is weird is only 3 Giesemann lamps were tested?
Where are the super actinics?

Also looks like something is wrong.. The ATI actinic goes up in lumens and par after 100 hours in use. Something is fishy there and not just a couple either...

I thought that it was incorrect as well, but I was assured that it was correct. Lamps need ~100 hours to break in, before that they don't have quite the same spectral or radiometric output. It's possible the phosphor mix required for such wide violet spectra really benefit from that hundred hours.

There were more Giesemann lamps that were tested, but one set was a pair of old D-D lamps and one was a second Aquablue Coral, so I pulled those out as they were unnecessary. I wish that they had tested the Super Purple and the Super Actinic instead! Maybe that can be planned for the future?

 

[reefknight]

Awesome write up and info! I have an ATI PM 10x54w and currently run (6) Blue+, (2) Coral+ and (2) Purple+ lamps. One each of the Blue and Purple+ are for dawn/dusk cycle. The other eight are my normal daylight running lamps and have been my combination since the introduction of the Coral+ lamp. It replaced the Aqua Blue Special in my line up. I have always had good growth and color. I have been curious about the new Blue Azure lamp. The description of 14k and turquoise has been calling to me.

@Jeremy@CoralVue - I ditched the Actinic by ATI in favor of the Purple+ a long time ago. I get much better color out of my reds, pinks and purples for sure. To be honest my wife enjoys the color of many of our anthias, such as Bartlett's, under the dawn/ dusk cycle with this lamp instead of the actinic. I was also partial to the KZ Fiji Purple, but enjoy this one more so. I used all KZ lamps at one time. Made the switch and have never regretted it.

 

[shred5]

To be honest my wife enjoys the color of many of our anthias, such as Bartlett's, under the dawn/ dusk cycle with this lamp instead of the actinic.

Omg my 5 Ignitus glow orange/red under the purple lamp... It does look awsum on the fish and my corals seem to love it. I just dont like the look of it myself but I will probably stick with it now because how good my Anthias look...

 

[davocean]

This is a really great write up and much appreciated.
I normally don't like trying new bulbs, but I did recently, since I got a Geisemann fixture I figured I'd match to their bulbs as well.
So I went w/ this, front to back;
Aquablue coral
Actinic blue
Super purple
Aquablue azure

I'm really liking the overall color right now but they are brand new, and so is this tank, so we'll see what they do for coral color and growth later.

 

[steevareno]

Did u take the par value for a purple plus? Thx

 

[rockskimmerflow]

Great write up there jedi! Glad to see the ATI and Giesemann bulb spectral charts side by side.

In response to the query about why ATI True Actinic bulbs increase in PAR and lumens after burn-in time, I believe I can offer an answer. When violet type fluorescent bulbs are operated the phosphors naturally break down and shift towards lower energy wavelengths. This shift favors the areas of the spectrum more heavily weighted for PAR and lumen measurement. The results are higher PAR readings, lumen output, and luminous efficacy despite the bulb's degradation. Even though the PAR and lumens are initally super low for truly actinic tubes, the bulb is doing its job and packs quite the 420nm and near-UV light punch. So in summary, no the bulb is not getting better with age like a fine wine, it's just offering up a PAR/lumen mirage of violet phosphor deterioration. I would expect this trend to continue over the life of the bulb until it reaches the end of its utility and begins to trend downwards in all respects - including PAR and lumen output.

Despite the deceptive numbers, don't count these lights out. True Actinic bulbs are excellent for inducing fluorescent pigment production in corals and hitting the violet area of the emission spectra for chlorophyll a. ATI true actinic is one of my favorite bulbs for filling out the spectrum and pairs beautifully with Blue plus, Coral plus, or Purple plus companions. I personally do not use LEDs on the majority of the tanks I care for, but on the tanks that do I have found actinic fluorescents to be perhaps the BEST supplement to the spectral range of commercially available LED fixtures. The exceptionally even light spread of high energy photons is gentle on corals and rounds out the pop from LED blues. Just my 2c

 

[s2nhle]

Very great. Thank you for taking time sharing this information.

 

[DavidinGA]

Did u take the par value for a purple plus? Thx

This

 

[jedimasterben]

Did u take the par value for a purple plus? Thx

Unfortunately those were not included in the testing. Not sure if there will be a second round, but it's a possibility

 

[Chris155hp]

First off AMAZING writeup. Thanks soooooo much for doing this!!!

As for readings and such at 2000 hours, the 'wear and tear' on the lamps will depend on many factors - ballast factor, ballast starting type, lamp temperature, how many times the lamps were started, etc, and these factors can greatly change the effect on the lamp's useful spectral life. If someone has great cooling and only starts the bulbs once daily and runs them for 12 hours, but instead of a proper T5HO programmed-start ballast (such as HEP or Philips brand) they have a rapid or instant start ballast (such as the Fulham Workhorse line) it will dramatically shorten the lamps' spectral life, so it's difficult to get an accurate picture of what they will do over time. Also, that would probably be expensive as all get out for as much time as it would take

As we have a Coral View Rep in the thread i thought Ide ask if the new Matrix II carries these ballast? and is there any difference between the ballast one the Dimmable Matrix II vs The Non Dimmable?


Also VERY interested in an ATI True Actinic VS the Giesemann True Actinic!!!

 

[jedimasterben]

First off AMAZING writeup. Thanks soooooo much for doing this!!!



As we have a Coral View Rep in the thread i thought Ide ask if the new Matrix II carries these ballast? and is there any difference between the ballast one the Dimmable Matrix II vs The Non Dimmable?


Also VERY interested in an ATI True Actinic VS the Giesemann True Actinic!!!

All Giesemann fixtures use Philips Advance programmed start ballasts.

 

[Chris@CoralVue]

Jedimasterben is correct. Giesemann uses Philips Advance program start standard and dimmable ballasts in their fixtures. The dimmable and standard ballast have the same specifications.

Chris

 

[Chris155hp]

Thanks for the reply!

 

[dbrewsky]

this is sick, thanks for the info.

 

[jedimasterben]

Jedimasterben is correct. Giesemann uses Philips Advance program start standard and dimmable ballasts in their fixtures. The dimmable and standard ballast have the same specifications.

Chris

Actually, not quite the same. The ballasts actually have very different ballast factors, which is a measure, basically, how much power is pushed through the lamp. For 24/39w models, the ballast factors are as follows:

Dimming
2x24w - 1.00
2x39w - 0.84

Non-dimming
2x24w - 1.12
2x 39w - 1.00

So for non-dimming, the ballast is made for 39w lamps and runs them exactly at spec, but if you run 24w lamps it overdrives them by 12%.

For dimming, it is made for 24w lamps and runs those exactly at spec, while it drops 16% of the lamp nominal output when running 39w lamps, which is a pretty decent drop.

 

[Chris155hp]

Actually, not quite the same. The ballasts actually have very different ballast factors, which is a measure, basically, how much power is pushed through the lamp. For 24/39w models, the ballast factors are as follows:

Dimming
2x24w - 1.00
2x39w - 0.84

Non-dimming
2x24w - 1.12
2x 39w - 1.00

So for non-dimming, the ballast is made for 39w lamps and runs them exactly at spec, but if you run 24w lamps it overdrives them by 12%.

For dimming, it is made for 24w lamps and runs those exactly at spec, while it drops 16% of the lamp nominal output when running 39w lamps, which is a pretty decent drop.

So in laymans terms this means....?