Giesemann/ATI T5 lamp comparison - pics, PAR, and a whole mess of data

[jedimasterben]

So in laymans terms this means....?

The ballast should run the lamps at exactly 1.00 ballast factor, which means they are at their nominal power and nominal output. If the number is higher than 1.00, then the ballast is overdriving the lamps, changing their spectral output and increasing output wattage (and therefore PAR). If the number is lower than 1.00, then the ballast is underdriving the lamps, also changing their spectral output and decreasing output wattage (and PAR).


Just looked up the data for 54w lamps and 80w lamps to round everything out.
Dimming
2x 54w - 1.00
1x 80w - 1.00

Non-dimming
2x 54w - 1.00
1x 80w - 1.00

So those will run the lamps exactly at spec. For the 24w non-dimming ballast above, it will overdrive the lamps by 12%, whereas the dimming 39w ballast will underdrive the lamps by 16%.

 

[s2nhle]

Wow, very informative. Thank you.

 

[Spschief85]

So it turns the dimmable versions running at 100% are 16% under driven and the non dimmable let are over driven by 12% thus putting out 28% more par than the dimmable?

 

[jedimasterben]

So it turns the dimmable versions running at 100% are 16% under driven and the non dimmable let are over driven by 12% thus putting out 28% more par than the dimmable?

The link from efficiency to PAR isn't quite so linear, but I would imagine that 20% is more realistic.

 

[Spschief85]

I would like to get a par meter and see the actual numbers my 8 bulb dimmable are putting out, in the end I want the most par I can get as um stick crazy, I know I have plenty of light with the 8 bulb and 2 xho actinic reefbrites, but it would be nice to see how moving up or down in various par zones color acros diffeeently.

 

[Brock0019]

boy o boy. time for bulb replacement....i was going to try the Giesemann's out....now i just dont know. that drop in par is alarming.

 

[s2nhle]

Great info. Time to change my lamps

 

[PaulG]

WOW nice work Ben! I am actually running some of the 65k Tropics. Pretty unflattering but one in an 8 bulb fixture works for propagation purposes quite well. Personally not a fan of the coral+ or any of that pinkish spectrum bulb aesthetically.

Hi Adam - I am installing an Auroa fixture and CoralVue guys recommended to use Tropic (2x) and Super Actinic(2x). You have been running Tropics - what are your thoughts? I have not seen many people running this combo. BTW - I have mixed reef with medium to easy SPS. Thank you so much for your advice!

 

[videosilva]

So glad to have seen this post. I will now copy and past from another forum and REAL WORLD observation of the KING OF LIGHT ATI.

 

[videosilva]

So glad to have seen this post. I will now copy and past from another forum and REAL WORLD observation of the KING OF LIGHT ATI.

 

[videosilva]

I have been reading for a few years now about ATI lights. I keep reading that these lights are the BEST and the best thing since sliced bread. I keep reading about ATI lights, like they are the KING of all lights.

Give it a rest. Like Donald Trump would say " FAKE NEWS"!

I finally bought one of the GOD of all lights and was expecting it to pop, moonwalk in the tank. IT LOOKS LIKE ANY OTHER BULB. Nothing special to hype about. I have an aqua. something Blue Actinic bulb and now an ATI Blue Plus bulb. Both bulbs are new.

When looking at the lights straight on and blinding your eyes there is NO noticeable difference.

When looking at the lights in the tank there is NO noticeable difference.

So whats with all the ATI hype ? People getting PAID to publicize the KING of ALL light ?

BOGUS waste of time and money !!!! It seems like people are seeing lights for the FIRST time in their life. Must be 12 years olds wasting time.

 

[swk]

Guessing you didn’t actually read any of the info....

 

[rockskimmerflow]

I have been reading for a few years now about ATI lights. I keep reading that these lights are the BEST and the best thing since sliced bread. I keep reading about ATI lights, like they are the KING of all lights.

Give it a rest. Like Donald Trump would say " FAKE NEWS"!

I finally bought one of the GOD of all lights and was expecting it to pop, moonwalk in the tank. IT LOOKS LIKE ANY OTHER BULB. Nothing special to hype about. I have an aqua. something Blue Actinic bulb and now an ATI Blue Plus bulb. Both bulbs are new.

When looking at the lights straight on and blinding your eyes there is NO noticeable difference.

When looking at the lights in the tank there is NO noticeable difference.

So whats with all the ATI hype ? People getting PAID to publicize the KING of ALL light ?

BOGUS waste of time and money !!!! It seems like people are seeing lights for the FIRST time in their life. Must be 12 years olds wasting time.

Are you trolling, or just painfully obtuse? Genuinely curious to know. Best regards

 

[actik]

And now for something a little different. Coralvue had some of the Giesemann lamps sent to a third party lamp manufacturer and asked for them to do things like spectral output graphs, lumen data, electrical data, etc. Data was also collected for some ATI and D-D Powerchrome lamps, as well, but I’ve removed the D-D lamps as they are no longer in production. The third party did not wish to be identified (I think they were worried if Giesemann or ATI didn't like the results that they might sue, etc), so take these for what you will, but keep in mind that each lamp had over 600 data points that were measured, across 20 tests (each lamp tested twice, and some duplicate lamps were sent), for a total of 12,000 data points. It would be rather… tedious to change juuuust the right ones.


Spectral measurements were taken using a Gooch & Housego OL 756 Spectroradiometer (double monochromator).


Radiometric and luminous output data was collected using a Labsphere LMS-3M integrating sphere, measurements at 10†distance, no reflectors.


I have uploaded each spreadsheet containing the raw data (which includes functions to produce a spectral graph based on each reading of each individual wavelength from 200-800nm) to Google Sheets for easy viewing. The caveat to that is that, unlike Excel, it does not connect each point using a line, so the graphs on the linked spreadsheets are just points on the plot. I have pulled the graphs out of Excel and have uploaded them separately and will post each with the appropriate data.


First up, let’s take a look at the electrical, luminous, and PAR characteristics for each of the tested lamps. The lamps were tested twice each - once brand new out of the box, the other with 100 hours of burn time. (sorry for the screenshot here, there is no easy way to put a spreadsheet onto the forum, so if you want a better view, you can find the full data set here: )

ATI Aquablue Special
0 hours

100 hours

ATI Blue Plus
0 hours

100 hours

ATI Coral Plus
0 hours

100 hours

ATI True Actinic
0 hours

100 hours

Giesemann Actinic Blue
0 hours

100 hours

Giesemann Aquablue Coral
0 hours

100 hours

Giesemann Lagoon Blue
0 hours

100 hours

Hopefully that gives a little bit of data on these new lamps to show that Giesemann’s new line is better than what they could do previously.


Now, which combo would I recommend? Well, that’s 100% personal preference. I really am not tied to using any of the four T5 in my Sunpower because I have the tank pretty sufficiently covered with two rows of LED arrays.

However, I’ve been playing with using a pair of the lamps for a couple of hours per day. When no LEDs are on, using one white (Aquablue Coral or Coral Plus) and one blue (Actinic Blue or Blue Plus), IMHO it doesn’t look all that great. I know most people use and adore that 1:1 lamp combo, but to me, it is bland. I am not a fan of overly blue tanks, and a 1:1 ratio is overly blue. Adding a purple lamp (Purple Plus, Super Purple) helps a little, but still not ‘white’ enough IMHO.


None of these combinations would be inherently better as far as growth is concerned, as their PAR is pretty similar, so using all blue lamps or all white lamps will grow corals as well as a mixture of the two. Lots of people will still tell you ‘10K for growth, 20K for color’ but IMHO it has more to do with the extra intensity from ‘10K’ bulbs than in the spectral change (it takes more energy to make blue photons than it does green or red, so you can make more photons [meaning more PAR] with green and red). The only exception is for violet bulbs (Super Actinic, True Actinic), as violet have far lower total photons emitted, so much less PAR. These should only be used in 6-8 bulb combinations if you need to lower intensity but still want to use all the bulbs.


So pick whichever combo you think looks best over your tank and let your corals grow!

Wow..thank you so much I've been trying to decide on what combination for the longest time, and the pictures help alot, I like your proffered Choi e also well balanced I'm not a fan of all blue

 

[Bpb]

I have been reading for a few years now about ATI lights. I keep reading that these lights are the BEST and the best thing since sliced bread. I keep reading about ATI lights, like they are the KING of all lights.

Give it a rest. Like Donald Trump would say " FAKE NEWS"!

I finally bought one of the GOD of all lights and was expecting it to pop, moonwalk in the tank. IT LOOKS LIKE ANY OTHER BULB. Nothing special to hype about. I have an aqua. something Blue Actinic bulb and now an ATI Blue Plus bulb. Both bulbs are new.

When looking at the lights straight on and blinding your eyes there is NO noticeable difference.

When looking at the lights in the tank there is NO noticeable difference.

So whats with all the ATI hype ? People getting PAID to publicize the KING of ALL light ?

BOGUS waste of time and money !!!! It seems like people are seeing lights for the FIRST time in their life. Must be 12 years olds wasting time.

never saw this. Sorry to resurrect but wow. Is that real life?

 

[Reefahholic]

Excellent work man! Appreciate it.

And now for something a little different. Coralvue had some of the Giesemann lamps sent to a third party lamp manufacturer and asked for them to do things like spectral output graphs, lumen data, electrical data, etc. Data was also collected for some ATI and D-D Powerchrome lamps, as well, but I’ve removed the D-D lamps as they are no longer in production. The third party did not wish to be identified (I think they were worried if Giesemann or ATI didn't like the results that they might sue, etc), so take these for what you will, but keep in mind that each lamp had over 600 data points that were measured, across 20 tests (each lamp tested twice, and some duplicate lamps were sent), for a total of 12,000 data points. It would be rather… tedious to change juuuust the right ones.


Spectral measurements were taken using a Gooch & Housego OL 756 Spectroradiometer (double monochromator).


Radiometric and luminous output data was collected using a Labsphere LMS-3M integrating sphere, measurements at 10†distance, no reflectors.


I have uploaded each spreadsheet containing the raw data (which includes functions to produce a spectral graph based on each reading of each individual wavelength from 200-800nm) to Google Sheets for easy viewing. The caveat to that is that, unlike Excel, it does not connect each point using a line, so the graphs on the linked spreadsheets are just points on the plot. I have pulled the graphs out of Excel and have uploaded them separately and will post each with the appropriate data.


First up, let’s take a look at the electrical, luminous, and PAR characteristics for each of the tested lamps. The lamps were tested twice each - once brand new out of the box, the other with 100 hours of burn time. (sorry for the screenshot here, there is no easy way to put a spreadsheet onto the forum, so if you want a better view, you can find the full data set here: )

ATI Aquablue Special
0 hours

100 hours

ATI Blue Plus
0 hours

100 hours

ATI Coral Plus
0 hours

100 hours

ATI True Actinic
0 hours

100 hours

Giesemann Actinic Blue
0 hours

100 hours

Giesemann Aquablue Coral
0 hours

100 hours

Giesemann Lagoon Blue
0 hours

100 hours

Hopefully that gives a little bit of data on these new lamps to show that Giesemann’s new line is better than what they could do previously.


Now, which combo would I recommend? Well, that’s 100% personal preference. I really am not tied to using any of the four T5 in my Sunpower because I have the tank pretty sufficiently covered with two rows of LED arrays.

However, I’ve been playing with using a pair of the lamps for a couple of hours per day. When no LEDs are on, using one white (Aquablue Coral or Coral Plus) and one blue (Actinic Blue or Blue Plus), IMHO it doesn’t look all that great. I know most people use and adore that 1:1 lamp combo, but to me, it is bland. I am not a fan of overly blue tanks, and a 1:1 ratio is overly blue. Adding a purple lamp (Purple Plus, Super Purple) helps a little, but still not ‘white’ enough IMHO.


None of these combinations would be inherently better as far as growth is concerned, as their PAR is pretty similar, so using all blue lamps or all white lamps will grow corals as well as a mixture of the two. Lots of people will still tell you ‘10K for growth, 20K for color’ but IMHO it has more to do with the extra intensity from ‘10K’ bulbs than in the spectral change (it takes more energy to make blue photons than it does green or red, so you can make more photons [meaning more PAR] with green and red). The only exception is for violet bulbs (Super Actinic, True Actinic), as violet have far lower total photons emitted, so much less PAR. These should only be used in 6-8 bulb combinations if you need to lower intensity but still want to use all the bulbs.


So pick whichever combo you think looks best over your tank and let your corals grow!

 

[fishface NJ]

I don't know how I missed this but thanks @Reefahholic for resurfacing it back up

 

[neltel_7]

at what depth was the Par measured and how high was the fixture above the water?

 

[Huynhter_Soldier]

Could anyone give me a good option for an 8 bulb 80w Giesemann Matrix. Planning on adding 2 quanta pro OG pop led bars to supplement this fixture as well. Needing to get new bulbs soon and was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on what combo to get?