Going fallow, both tanks.

[Valkyrie]

Yup, the end has come. ok, not really...but...

I've lost my sweet Kole tang, 2 clowns and a damsel. The tang and damsel were both velvet. We noticed the odd behavior of swimming into the current of one of the powerheads, but we didn't know what it meant until it was too late. The only thing left in the 29g is Tony, the long-nosed hawkfish. I spent the last two nights after work immersed here in the fish disease section. I only had about 1.5hrs each night, since I work such long hours, but that's what I spent that time doing.

Then today as I sat in front of my 55g studying everyone, I saw it. Dante, my scopas, has some white spots, they weren't easy to see but they were there. He was eating at least, his breathing seemed normal. I say seemed, because I didn't know. So...

I started reading closely here, cracked open my new book by Jay Hemdal and a few other books I have. I started cleaning up my 20g to get it ready and discovered that it wasn't going to hold water. Well, at least I wasn't going to trust it to do so. It's at least 25 years old, probably older, and it's been empty for the last 10 years. Crap.

As I sat on the bathroom floor, angry, hurt and feeling very, very beaten the vet tech in me took over. Not only the vet tech, but the warrior as well. I take care of furry and feathery pets every day! These are fish, I've had fish for almost 50 years! I have nursed wounded koi back to health. I got up at 2am in the morning during a severe windstorm and fetched all of my koi out of the 300 gallon stock tank after a tree had fallen and ripped a hole through the bottom of it, putting them in my spare bathroom tub to live until spring when I could fix the tank. I've brought back cichlids from the dead (true story) after they were poisoned by aerosolized paint stripper. I can do this. I can save my fish that I love so much. My husband is on board now, too, so I have his help.

The August fishapocalypse was just a warning shot. It tested me, "can she take it?"
Yea...I can take it. Bring it.

I have to play by the rules now. I can't just do things the way I want. This isn't freshwater anymore, it's not brackish either. The margins for error are much narrower than I'm accustom to working within. I wanted to play with the big kids and even though my nose is bloody, a tooth is missing and the wind has been knocked out of me, I'm ready to fight.

As soon as my husband came home from work I explained the situation and he was practically out the door before I was done. LOL We picked up supplies and another 20g aquarium, mapped out our plan of attack. I already had the copper and copper test kit, so there's that. Sadly, due to circumstances beyond our control the scopas will have to hang on at least another 24 hours.

Here's the situation in the 55g. Only Dante is showing signs of illness, but there are other fish and they all need to join the party. So between the two tanks all together there is:
1 Naso Tang
2 clownfish
1 Jeweled lawnmower blenny
1 Scopas
1 long-nosed hawkfish

I also have a used 20 long that I decided on my way home that I would also set up. My thought is that they're going to have to stay in the 20g until the 76 days are up. I don't want them feeling crowded and stressed. I'm going to put the 2 clowns and the hawkfish in one and the 2 tangs & blenny in the other. That way I can put the 2 clowns & hawkfish in the 29g.

Tomorrow morning I'll feed everyone some mysis with selcon, give the tangs their last strip of nori and hit the road for the rest of the supplies I need.

My questions:

1. What is the best solution to disinfect the tanks before and after they've been used to house sick fish? I have access to professional stuff, so long as it's not Rx only I can usually get it.

2. What do I feed my 2 tangs and the blenny? They're used to eating algae and nori, but the rules say not to feed nori and there's not going to be any algae to eat.

3. Is this going to totally blow the use of one of my 20g tanks as a frag tank in the future? My intention was to use just one of the 20g as a hospital/quarantine, but I'm afraid to shove all 6 fish into just one.

4. I want to make sure that I'm clear, NOTHING is to be added to the two tanks while they're fallow? No inverts. No corals, no anemones, not even one tiny snail or shrimp. NOTHING. Right?
If this is accurate, I'll also set up my 10g to hold the corals I'm going to get when I go to Orlando in February from WWC.

5. I will try to get some chloroquine phosphate if I can talk one of the vets I work with to script it out. We do business with Diamondback so I can order it if I get the script. I'm a little concerned since the local compounding pharmacy just told me that it's on back order indefinitely. In the meantime, the copper is the best choice, right?

6. Last question. Light a candle for my fishies, will ya?

Thanks for any help anyone can offer.

 

[melypr1985]

What is the best solution to disinfect the tanks before and after they've been used to house sick fish? I have access to professional stuff, so long as it's not Rx only I can usually get it.

You can use bleach or vinegar and let them dry completely for a couple days before using again. That will do it just fine.

What do I feed my 2 tangs and the blenny? They're used to eating algae and nori, but the rules say not to feed nori and there's not going to be any algae to eat.

Still feed them the nori they love, just don't let it sit in there all day long and deteriorate. As long as they are eating it, keep feeding it to them.

Is this going to totally blow the use of one of my 20g tanks as a frag tank in the future? My intention was to use just one of the 20g as a hospital/quarantine, but I'm afraid to shove all 6 fish into just one.

It may not. Some serious cleaning and drying and then testing when it's set back up to ensure nothing is leaching out again should do it. But you have to pay special attention to the silicone joints.

I want to make sure that I'm clear, NOTHING is to be added to the two tanks while they're fallow? No inverts. No corals, no anemones, not even one tiny snail or shrimp. NOTHING. Right?
If this is accurate, I'll also set up my 10g to hold the corals I'm going to get when I go to Orlando in February from WWC.

You can add to the tank, but the fallow period will start over each time.

In the meantime, the copper is the best choice, right?

Yes. Without CP, Copper is the best choice in this case. I recommend and use Coppersafe with great results.

Light a candle for my fishies, will ya?

Absolutely! I loved your post and your drive to keep going and do what you can for your fish. Great job

 

[DLHDesign]

I'm sorry for your losses. Always tough when we loose a finned friend. :-(

Yea...I can take it. Bring it.

You got this!

I don't want them feeling crowded and stressed. I'm going to put the 2 clowns and the hawkfish in one and the 2 tangs & blenny in the other.

I'm not really sure, but I think you would want to split up the tangs, perhaps? My understanding is that, of the fishes you've listed, they are the ones most in need of space to swim. Splitting them up would provide each of them this, I'd think... But it will also make keeping both tanks fed a bit harder, so... perhaps not. :-\

1. What is the best solution to disinfect the tanks before and after they've been used to house sick fish?

I run the Tank Transfer Method in my QT. Which is another way of saying that I clean hospital tanks A LOT. The method I've learned is to rinse them well with a vinegar solution (I use 50/50 water/vinegar, but stronger won't hurt) - scrubbing everything. I then let the tank sit till dry, but not less than 48hrs. The sitting also allows the vinegar to "off gas" (diving term, sorry...) from the stuff in the tank. For highly porous material (air stones, sponges, filters, carbon bags, etc.), I either only use them once, or give them far more time to dry out (weeks or months).

3. Is this going to totally blow the use of one of my 20g tanks as a frag tank in the future?

Shouldn't, no. Obviously while in use as a QT, it's not a frag tank. But once done, you can clean it out (above) and it can be a frag tank again.

 

[Valkyrie]

Thank-you both for your support. I was really nervous about posting. But I had to put my own feelings and ego aside for the sake of my fish.

76 days of agonizing wait wins over losing any more fish.

The two tangs and blenny are buddies, so I hesitate to separate them. I will do so if they start to have issues. The two clowns are the ones I'm worried about, the dark maroon bullys the lighter maroon. I *thought* they were the same color when we got them. Now I think they might be too different to be friends. Oops.

 

[melypr1985]

Thank-you both for your support. I was really nervous about posting. But I had to put my own feelings and ego aside for the sake of my fish.

76 days of agonizing wait wins over losing any more fish.

The two tangs and blenny are buddies, so I hesitate to separate them. I will do so if they start to have issues. The two clowns are the ones I'm worried about, the dark maroon bullys the lighter maroon. I *thought* they were the same color when we got them. Now I think they might be too different to be friends. Oops.

Don't be afraid to ask any other questions you come up with while you're doing this. We'll be here to help you out if and when.

 

[Mike_J]

So sorry for your losses. I don't have much to add that hasn't already been offered. I will however send more positive vibes and encouragement your way. Your post conveys a great fighting attitude which at times may be difficult to maintain throughout the fallow period, so stay strong. I do suggest if there is anything you were planning on adding to the tank in the near future as far as CUC, macro algae, frags, etc., do it now at the start of the fallow period. You might as well. Well wishes your way! Keep us posted!

 

[jenreefer]

Yup, the end has come. ok, not really...but...

I've lost my sweet Kole tang, 2 clowns and a damsel. The tang and damsel were both velvet. We noticed the odd behavior of swimming into the current of one of the powerheads, but we didn't know what it meant until it was too late. The only thing left in the 29g is Tony, the long-nosed hawkfish. I spent the last two nights after work immersed here in the fish disease section. I only had about 1.5hrs each night, since I work such long hours, but that's what I spent that time doing.

Then today as I sat in front of my 55g studying everyone, I saw it. Dante, my scopas, has some white spots, they weren't easy to see but they were there. He was eating at least, his breathing seemed normal. I say seemed, because I didn't know. So...

I started reading closely here, cracked open my new book by Jay Hemdal and a few other books I have. I started cleaning up my 20g to get it ready and discovered that it wasn't going to hold water. Well, at least I wasn't going to trust it to do so. It's at least 25 years old, probably older, and it's been empty for the last 10 years. Crap.

As I sat on the bathroom floor, angry, hurt and feeling very, very beaten the vet tech in me took over. Not only the vet tech, but the warrior as well. I furry and feathery pets every day! These are fish, I've had fish for almost 50 years! I have nursed wounded koi back to health. I got up at 2am in the morning during a severe windstorm and fetched all of my koi out of the 300 gallon stock tank after a tree had fallen and ripped a hole through the bottom of it, putting them in my spare bathroom tub to live until spring when I could fix the tank. I've brought back cichlids from the dead (true story) after they were poisoned by aerosolized paint stripper. I can do this. I can save my fish that I love so much. My husband is on board now, too, so I have his help.

The August fishapocalypse was just a warning shot. It tested me, "can she take it?"
Yea...I can take it. Bring it.

I have to play by the rules now. I can't just do things the way I want. This isn't freshwater anymore, it's not brackish either. The margins for error are much narrower than I'm accustom to working within. I wanted to play with the big kids and even though my nose is bloody, a tooth is missing and the wind has been knocked out of me, I'm ready to fight.

As soon as my husband came home from work I explained the situation and he was practically out the door before I was done. LOL We picked up supplies and another 20g aquarium, mapped out our plan of attack. I already had the copper and copper test kit, so there's that. Sadly, due to circumstances beyond our control the scopas will have to hang on at least another 24 hours.

Here's the situation in the 55g. Only Dante is showing signs of illness, but there are other fish and they all need to join the party. So between the two tanks all together there is:
1 Naso Tang
2 clownfish
1 Jeweled lawnmower blenny
1 Scopas
1 long-nosed hawkfish

I also have a used 20 long that I decided on my way home that I would also set up. My thought is that they're going to have to stay in the 20g until the 76 days are up. I don't want them feeling crowded and stressed. I'm going to put the 2 clowns and the hawkfish in one and the 2 tangs & blenny in the other. That way I can't put the 2 clowns & hawkfish in the 29g.

Tomorrow morning I'll feed everyone some mysis with selcon, give the tangs their last strip of nori and hit the road for the rest of the supplies I need.

My questions:

1. What is the best solution to disinfect the tanks before and after they've been used to house sick fish? I have access to professional stuff, so long as it's not Rx only I can usually get it.

2. What do I feed my 2 tangs and the blenny? They're used to eating algae and nori, but the rules say not to feed nori and there's not going to be any algae to eat.

3. Is this going to totally blow the use of one of my 20g tanks as a frag tank in the future? My intention was to use just one of the 20g as a hospital/quarantine, but I'm afraid to shove all 6 fish into just one.

4. I want to make sure that I'm clear, NOTHING is to be added to the two tanks while they're fallow? No inverts. No corals, no anemones, not even one tiny snail or shrimp. NOTHING. Right?
If this is accurate, I'll also set up my 10g to hold the corals I'm going to get when I go to Orlando in February from WWC.

5. I will try to get some chloroquine phosphate if I can talk one of the vets I work with to script it out. We do business with Diamondback so I can order it if I get the script. I'm a little concerned since the local compounding pharmacy just told me that it's on back order indefinitely. In the meantime, the copper is the best choice, right?

6. Last question. Light a candle for my fishies, will ya?

Thanks for any help anyone can offer.

You got this!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am also going through it and can tell you that it is frustrating and tedious. However, considering the alternative, it is the best route.

I have had several on here tell me to not talk about it on boards. I think the more we talk about it and share experiences, the better for everyone. It is not a failure to get ich, velvet or other fish diseases in your DT.

It is a failure to stand by and do nothing while they succumb to these diseases.

Feed them well and keep the tank as clean as possible. 76 days is forever in fish years. Your reward will be a return of healthy fish to your DT.

Good luck

 

[Mike_J]

I have had several on here tell me to not talk about it on boards. I think the more we talk about it and share experiences, the better for everyone. It is not a failure to get ich, velvet or other fish diseases in your DT.

It is a failure to stand by and do nothing while they succumb to these diseases.

Good luck

Well said. I could not agree more!

 

[DLHDesign]

I was really nervous about posting. But I had to put my own feelings and ego aside for the sake of my fish.

Glad you did! This way we can all go through this (in part, at least) along with you. We will not judge you on anything you do wrong, and we'll be sure to celebrate every success you share with us. So please don't hesitate to share what you're gong through - the people on this forum are here for your fish; and for you. ;-)

I have had several on here tell me to not talk about it on boards. I think the more we talk about it and share experiences, the better for everyone.

That surprises me, yet I agree with your thoughts. Information shared is improved; experiences kept private are forgotten. Share everything and let the reader filter as they will - in this way our knowledge grows.

 

[Valkyrie]

I have some plans for the fallow time. If those plans start to come together, I'll be sure to share them.
In the meantime, here's my husband doing his part.

 

[Valkyrie]

Both 20s are up and running. The water is too cold yet, but we're moving in the right direction. Everyone is still happy, active and eating. I'm scared that will change when they all go in their respective 20s. Regardless, it has to happen.

 

[Valkyrie]

Today is the day. Thankfully, everyone is still fine, still eating and the two tanks are looking ok. The temp is about a degree lower than in the two DTs.
I have some questions. I'm hoping @Humblefish can add to any of the answers that I get, too.

1. Aeration: I got a pump and 2 air stones, one for each tank. Unfortunately, I didn't notice that the pump I got was too small to run 2 separate stones very well, I flat out wasn't thinking when I picked it up off the shelf. So in one of the tanks I put in a small powerhead. Is a powerhead going to be enough or should I go get a second air pump to ensure there's enough aeration?

2. When I move them into their tanks, should I wait until someone breaks with spots before I treat? The tank with the lawnmower blenny and the 2 tangs will have treatment started right away, since the scopas has the spots. But the fish that will be in the other tank show no signs of illness.

3. I'm very, very worried about ammonia spikes. I don't understand how doing this so soon after setting up the tanks isn't a recipe for disaster. Sure, I'm adding Stability for the bio (I know not to use Prime or Amquel, but figured this is just bio), once I start adding copper that's going to kill everything isn't it? I feel that filtration is going to be non-existent even with the AquaClear HOBs, I'm asking for some sort of reassurance. I'm so worried, that I'm probably going to use my lunch break tomorrow to get more water from my lfs, for water changes. I'm in a bit of a panic.

4. Lighting. I know that I don't need spectacular lighting, so that's good because I don't have it. LOL I do have some lighting, one of them is freshwater LED, the other is a coralife fluorescent. Should I leave them off most of the time?

5. I have CopperSafe, I have the copper test kit. I have food. Is it ok to dose the food with Selcon still?

6. What am I forgetting? I only have big box fish stores open today, so if I forgot too specialized of an item I'm out of luck until Monday afternoon.

That's it for now. TIA Now to go reread Humble's posts on QT and treatment yet again.

ETA-guess I should have reread BEFORE I posted my questions. Oh well.

 

[Humblefish]

1. Aeration: I got a pump and 2 air stones, one for each tank. Unfortunately, I didn't notice that the pump I got was too small to run 2 separate stones very well, I flat out wasn't thinking when I picked it up off the shelf. So in one of the tanks I put in a small powerhead. Is a powerhead going to be enough or should I go get a second air pump to ensure there's enough aeration?

It should be enough, because you have to consider water breaking the surface from the HOBs will also provide gas exchange.

2. When I move them into their tanks, should I wait until someone breaks with spots before I treat? The tank with the lawnmower blenny and the 2 tangs will have treatment started right away, since the scopas has the spots. But the fish that will be in the other tank show no signs of illness.

I would continue dosing Stability daily for at least a few days before dosing copper. This will strengthen your bio-filter before copper puts a dent in those bacteria populations.

3. I'm very, very worried about ammonia spikes. I don't understand how doing this so soon after setting up the tanks isn't a recipe for disaster. Sure, I'm adding Stability for the bio (I know not to use Prime or Amquel, but figured this is just bio), once I start adding copper that's going to kill everything isn't it? I feel that filtration is going to be non-existent even with the AquaClear HOBs, I'm asking for some sort of reassurance. I'm so worried, that I'm probably going to use my lunch break tomorrow to get more water from my lfs, for water changes. I'm in a bit of a panic.

Copper will put a dent in your bio-filter, but bacteria are extremely resilient so they will adapt and quickly repopulate themselves. However, keep a close eye on your ammonia alert badge and keep freshly mixed SW on hand just in case. Always be prepared for worst case scenario.

4. Lighting. I know that I don't need spectacular lighting, so that's good because I don't have it. LOL I do have some lighting, one of them is freshwater LED, the other is a coralife fluorescent. Should I leave them off most of the time?

Yes, at least until the fish seem more comfortable in QT. Until then just let them rest except for feeding time.

5. I have CopperSafe, I have the copper test kit. I have food. Is it ok to dose the food with Selcon still?

Yes

6. What am I forgetting? I only have big box fish stores open today, so if I forgot too specialized of an item I'm out of luck until Monday afternoon.

Heater/thermometer? PVC elbows for hiding places?

 

[DLHDesign]

1. Aeration: I got a pump and 2 air stones, one for each tank. Unfortunately, I didn't notice that the pump I got was too small to run 2 separate stones very well, I flat out wasn't thinking when I picked it up off the shelf. So in one of the tanks I put in a small powerhead. Is a powerhead going to be enough or should I go get a second air pump to ensure there's enough aeration?

Aim the powerhead so that it creates ripples on the surface. This will increase the gas exchange that is going on and should be fine.
Another thing you'll likely want to do is lower the temp on your tanks - something like 74-75F or so? That will have two effects:
1) The lower temperature will increase the oxygen absorption potential of the water. Eg; lower temps == more oxygen in the water
2) It will slow the metabolism of the fish (eg; calms them down a bit), which can give you more time to react to anything that may occur.

2. When I move them into their tanks, should I wait until someone breaks with spots before I treat? The tank with the lawnmower blenny and the 2 tangs will have treatment started right away, since the scopas has the spots. But the fish that will be in the other tank show no signs of illness.

If even one fish has signs, it's almost guaranteed that they all are hosting some amount of the parasite. It's just that the healthy-looking fish are (currently) healthy enough to stay ahead of the infestation. As your goal is to eliminate the parasite completely, I would think you would want to treat both tanks - which means you should likely start sooner rather than later.
Having said that; you may choose to wait to treat the "healthy" tank until you've gotten through (or into) the treatment of the tang tank. That way you'll have had some experience and also won't be trying to manage two treated tanks at the same time.

3. I'm very, very worried about ammonia spikes.

Things that will help:
- Don't over-feed the tanks. Feed enough for the fish to eat, and then use a turkey baster or the like to remove any uneaten food or detritus that may exist. This will help keep the ammonia from even forming.
- If you have any filter material in your DT already, you could add some of it into the QT tanks. That filter material will contain a higher concentration of bacteria than just the water alone. (If you don't have any filter material, then it's unlikely adding any now will be of any use to you as it takes time for the bacteria colonies to seed into the material.)
- If you don't have them already, get an Ammonia Alert badge for each QT tank. These aren't the end-all of indicators (they are sometimes less than accurate), but if they turn green at all, then you'll want to do a water change ASAP. They should have these at big-box stores, or you can order them from Amazon. Your ammonia is unlikely to spike up in the first day or two.

I'm in a bit of a panic.

You're doing well. As the Guide says - "Don't Panic".

And it looks like @Humblefish replied, so I'll defer to his answers above.

All will be well; we're here for you if you need!

 

[Valkyrie]

Heater/thermometer? PVC elbows for hiding places?

Both tanks got them. Brand spankin' new so that I don't have to worry as much about the heaters.

Thanks Humble, knowing you and several others are out there rootin' us on, helps a million tons.

I just got my RO/DI hooked up last night. Was SORELY disappointed in the amount of waste water to RODI water. However, I'm going to find uses for the waste.

Off I go, time to get things rolling. Only a few hours and it'll be the 24 hours rec'd for the salt dissolving.

 

[Humblefish]

@DLHDesign I just wanted to say I really appreciate the time you've been putting into the fish disease forum lately. You and @Brew12 have been a blessing here.

 

[DLHDesign]

@DLHDesign I just wanted to say I really appreciate the time you've been putting into the fish disease forum lately. You and @Brew12 have been a blessing here.

Thanks; just trying to pay forward what you all gave to me.

 

[Humblefish]

Thanks Humble, knowing you and several others are out there rootin' us on, helps a million tons.

We've always got your back.

 

[Valkyrie]

@DLHDesign I just wanted to say I really appreciate the time you've been putting into the fish disease forum lately. You and @Brew12 have been a blessing here.

*nodding vigorously* indeed!

 

[DLHDesign]

Was SORELY disappointed in the amount of waste water to RODI water.

I had this same reaction!
Something that can help with that is an upgrade kit. This kit requires higher incoming pressure (which you can get with a booster pump if needed), but once you get it set up, the amount of waste water drops by roughly half.