Gupp-tastrophe: My misguided run at feeder fish breeding

Lionfish Lair

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They are still a "freshwater fish" that sometimes are found in areas (brackish) where there are wide swings in salinity. They are also found in pure freshwater as a natural environment but are never found in marine.

I don't want to confuse things, but there are indeed tonnes and TONNES of variables that affect a fish' lipids. Their environment and how cold it is, seasonal differences, when there's stress, at different ages and even different diets, on and on. You could write a book like War and Peace on the topic of lipids alone.

If you open up a freshwater fish and a saltwater fish, you won't be able to tell the difference physically, yet their physiological functions differ and one of those differences has to do with their ability to "process" different fats.
 

DanConnor

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Okay, how about salmon? :) I feed a salmon to my fish.

I think they are primarily saltwater fish, but have some populations that are restricted to freshwater. Are the purely freshwater ones still good?
 

Lionfish Lair

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They are considered to be a saltwater fish from a nutritional standpoint. They are a perfect example of how you can manipulate the fat. I consider farmed salmon (what you'll find at the market 90% of the time) to be a different fish than a wild salmon because their nutritional profiles are so different. Be aware it has thiaminase in it. I feed too much salmon, I'm afraid, as I love everything about it.
 
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DanConnor

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What I'm getting at is that I wonder if these distinctions of "freshwater fish" and "saltwater fish" might be a bit arbitrary and not reflective of real differences regarding flesh characteristics. My feeling is that mollies or guppies living for generations in saltwater could be considered saltwater fish, but until someone does a real analysis that is speculation. I think the real problem is the high fat content of fish like goldfish, and that guppies or mollies are not so bad in that respect.
 

Lionfish Lair

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I believe you can alter their lipid profile with a diet high in marine fats, yet you don't have to convert them to saltwater to do this, was sort of my point. I don't believe it takes generations, but you can change it over an over in an individual guppy. I've used feeder guppies to feed a leaf fish for 4 years and fed the guppy a diet high in marine oils.
 
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Lionfish Lair

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I found some articles!!!! I don't think I've researched the topic since I've had access to a new set of resources. I'll take some notes and see what I find.
 

Lionfish Lair

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Yes, we can alter a guppies lipid profile so they are a good source of essential fatty acids for a marine fish. They were analyzed after 3 months on the fish oil diet. You have to pay particular close attention to feeding a proper amount and I wouldn't risk doing that with a prepared fish food. One study used high quality cod liver oil at an inclusion of 10% of the diet. I would use actually fish oil capsules and keep them stored properly and do not keep them for too long.

I would keep the fish in freshwater, as it's easier and cheaper to care for them that way.

One thing they're "experimenting" with, is raising marine fish using plant oils. Then, before they go to market, they use a "finishing diet" that uses marine fish oil to pass on the bennies to us folk.
 
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tyler1503

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Loving the discussion in this thread and as a lover of predators, I have always considered guppies as a food source. I've also considered breeding less fatty fish like electric yellows, but it's not very economical and nowhere near as reliable.
Following along to see how this discussion goes :)
 

tyler1503

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Has anyone here considered bristlenoses? They're pretty easy breed once established :)
 

tyler1503

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Can they live in saltwater?

Nope. So it would still present the same issues with the fats and oils and whatnot, but the bristlenoses seem to be less fatty than livebearers.
Also, you can buy mullet bred for aquaponics setups. They're like $0.20 each plus delivery and are usually about an inch long or so. You can buy them bigger too. They're found in both marine and freshwater so would they be a viable option? The ones sold are freshwater (for aquaponics), however as they also live in full marine conditions in the wild, they may be a viable option.

I'm just speculating here and just trying to feed the discussion a little. I have no scientific evidence to backup my ideas haha.
I may experiment with these when I have my predator tank running again :)
 

94Roarge

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Nope. So it would still present the same issues with the fats and oils and whatnot, but the bristlenoses seem to be less fatty than livebearers.
Also, you can buy mullet bred for aquaponics setups. They're like $0.20 each plus delivery and are usually about an inch long or so. You can buy them bigger too. They're found in both marine and freshwater so would they be a viable option? The ones sold are freshwater (for aquaponics), however as they also live in full marine conditions in the wild, they may be a viable option.

I'm just speculating here and just trying to feed the discussion a little. I have no scientific evidence to backup my ideas haha.
I may experiment with these when I have my predator tank running again :)
There are freshwater species and saltwater species, so I'll just throw that into the mix ;) what about cardinals? They are mouthbrooders, so the egg stage would be easier to work with?
 

tyler1503

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I don't know if the spines would be an issue. At least I doubt they would be for larger predators. Lots of fish eat scorpions, tangs and foxfaces in the wild.
However I would feed the fry just in case haha

Cardinals would make a good choice I think, although not quite as easy as guppies haha. I'm personally looking for something easy to breed. With guppies you can literally drop them in a bucket with a filter and they'll breed out of control. No special equipment needed at all and not a great deal of parameter watching :p
 

94Roarge

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I don't know if the spines would be an issue. At least I doubt they would be for larger predators. Lots of fish eat scorpions, tangs and foxfaces in the wild.
However I would feed the fry just in case haha

Cardinals would make a good choice I think, although not quite as easy as guppies haha. I'm personally looking for something easy to breed. With guppies you can literally drop them in a bucket with a filter and they'll breed out of control. No special equipment needed at all and not a great deal of parameter watching :p
Yeah [emoji14] I suppose there has to be something out there right? I hope!
 
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Dancingmad

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what about cardinals

Just for smiles n' grins here is a picture of one of my baby cardinals from years ago. My Halimeda was a perfect spot for them to seek refuge. Unfortunately at the time I had a violent, murderous tomato clown in my tank that would take the fry and drag them into his anemone.

Apologies for the lens flare :)
DSCN0556.JPG
 

tyler1503

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Just for smiles n' grins here is a picture of one of my baby cardinals from years ago. My Halimeda was a perfect spot for them to seek refuge. Unfortunately at the time I had a violent, murderous tomato clown in my tank that would take the fry and drag them into his anemone.

Apologies for the lens flare :)
DSCN0556.JPG

Ahh so cute!
Was the breeding process hard? I imagine it was quite time consuming.
 
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Dancingmad

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Was the breeding process hard? I imagine it was quite time consuming.

I attribute luck and fish health - I don't even consider myself a neophyte in Marine fish breeding (hence the guppy attempt).

I've set my sights on herbies, and have a 10G (just got a 29g take to further my cause -- yay 1$ per gallon tank sale) currently growing some botryocladia and ulva lettuce. Maybe my tang will dance like my dogs do when its treat time haha!
 

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