Home-study of fish disease/parasites

GHsaltie

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Although this is a thread I am going to gear it more as a blog of sorts. I have been hounding the disease section for some months now and have discovered that it is quite intriguing. I decided I wanted to take a bit of a step forward and get some actual hands on experience with the diseases found in the captive trade as well as treatment of those diseases. I work as an aquatics specialist at Petco and so I have abounding opportunities to not only observe fish for multiple days but to also easily acquire the ones that are going down-hill and to, hopefully, successfully treat them. (I will not accept negative comments regarding the company I work for or my job, this thread is strictly to document and discuss the fish I treat.) So, all that said my first acquiree is a juvenile Koran angel that has been at my store for a week now. I suspect that he has velvet, but I can't be certain on this as he only showed spots for a day or two earlier this week, however they also didn't seem very ich-like either. I'm going to get some pictures after this post, he's acclimating to the QT as of right now. I have currently in my cabinet Kanaplex, Metroplex and Prazi. I have Coppersafe (and api test kit) and furan-2 being shipped to me now, supposed to be here Saturday morning. I'm brain fried right now after a long day at work but I believe my battle plan is that I am going to start copper treatment once I get it. I am also going to do a freshwater dip tomorrow to rule out flukes. After watching this fish for several days I have noticed a little bit of scratching but mostly hiding under a powerhead etc and sudden "erratic" movements that only last a few seconds. His appetite is surprisingly good but he's been hiding more and more of late. I thought I saw a few new spots on his fins this morning, but today was a very busy day at work and I didn't have as much time to observe him as I would have liked. So that's pretty much the gist of it right now, any and all input is welcome as I am by no means an expert and I greatly appreciate the advice of others with experience.
If all goes well with this new venture then I will continue to treat various fish over the months, mostly tangs and angels. All of them will be conditioned after treatment and rehomed. If anybody on this forum happens to be interested in a particular fish then I don't mind looking into how to properly ship a fish. Unless something changes then I will not be setting a price for the fish, only shipping costs will be covered by the new owner. Or if anybody knows people within driving distance that would be interested then don't be shy :). I don't have a huge circle so I need all the help I can get :D.
 

melypr1985

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Good for you! I'll be following along and lending a hand where I can. I'm sure the others will as well. If it's truly velvet though, you may not have time to wait for the copper. Not that you can do much about that with it in transit and all. The freshwater dip could very well buy you a little more time to allow your package to arrive (along with testing for flukes).

Edit to say: We will definitely want pictures along the way. Can we have some pictures with your journey?
 
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GHsaltie

GHsaltie

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Yes! I love adding pictures rw only problem is my cell phone takes crappy pics (even though I was assured that an iPhone 6 takes really good pictures). I managed to snag a few after he settled down a little bit.
image.jpeg image.jpeg
He's showing the exact same sypmtoms that a previous Koran angel did a couple weeks ago. That one ended up breaking out in fine spots just over a week after having it and was belly side up the next day. I also was informed that yesterday one of my higher ups did freshwater dips on all of our larger fish and "ich" came pouring off of them. To me that screams either velvet or a heavy infestation of flukes. I wasn't there when the dips were done so I didn't see what came out. I am worried that he's not going to make it until Saturday, but he's still hanging in there and I'm hoping it'll stay that way. If he doesn't make it, well I at least gave it a shot.
Oh and I wasn't positive on whether angels are senisitive to copper or not? I think I'm getting confused with wrasses and hippo tangs or something..... Tired brain doesn't function correctly.o_O
 

melypr1985

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Yes! I love adding pictures rw only problem is my cell phone takes crappy pics (even though I was assured that an iPhone 6 takes really good pictures). I managed to snag a few after he settled down a little bit.
image.jpeg image.jpeg
He's showing the exact same sypmtoms that a previous Koran angel did a couple weeks ago. That one ended up breaking out in fine spots just over a week after having it and was belly side up the next day. I also was informed that yesterday one of my higher ups did freshwater dips on all of our larger fish and "ich" came pouring off of them. To me that screams either velvet or a heavy infestation of flukes. I wasn't there when the dips were done so I didn't see what came out. I am worried that he's not going to make it until Saturday, but he's still hanging in there and I'm hoping it'll stay that way. If he doesn't make it, well I at least gave it a shot.
Oh and I wasn't positive on whether angels are senisitive to copper or not? I think I'm getting confused with wrasses and hippo tangs or something..... Tired brain doesn't function correctly.o_O

That poor thing! Yes what your "higher ups" saw were probably flukes since you wouldn't be able to see ick even if it were possible for them to be driven off the fish by a quick freshwater dip. The dip is able to flush out some of the gills, which is why it could buy you specifically some time before the copper arrives. It may keep the angel from suffocating before the treatment can begin.

Angels can be sensitive to copper, though in this case you'll want to ramp up the copper levels within 24 hours and take the risk. Velvet kills too quickly to not take the chance that it will handle the copper well enough.
 
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GHsaltie

GHsaltie

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I was wondering if velvet is visible during a freshwater dip or not, I never really thought about that? But I guess not because its such a small parasite. I wouldn't be shocked if it was flukes they saw, I can name at least a handful of fish right now that are showing signs of flukes. I don't know if this particular fish was one that had parasites come out though, so to be on the safe side I'm just going to do a dip anyway. At least I will have a little bit of time to get some good food into his belly before starting treatment, although silly me completely forgot to pick up some nori before heading home so I'll have to make sure and grab some tomorrow morning. And I found out today that no store in my area has vitamin supplements, so I'm going to have to order those online too :(.
 

melypr1985

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I was wondering if velvet is visible during a freshwater dip or not, I never really thought about that?

No sir. They, and ick are too small to see with the naked eye. What your able to see on the fish is actually an accumulation of slime coat that surrounds the insertion point of the parasite. The body's way of attacking it and sometimes (more so with velvet than ick) failing.
 

Humblefish

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GHsaltie

GHsaltie

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Melypr and humblefish have you covered sir!
Lol ma'am actually.
Thank you @Humblefish for the link, I'm going to bookmark that one so I can print it out later. Acriflavine was the one med I think that I didn't order that I probably should have. Would you recommend that I go ahead and start treating with kanaplex for possible infection, or wait until after the freshwater dip? Oh I also have Methylene blue as well, for some reason I keep forgetting I have that one. I think for the next fish I get I'm going to see if I can source some chloroquine phosphate through my regular vet.
 

Humblefish

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Lol ma'am actually.
Thank you @Humblefish for the link, I'm going to bookmark that one so I can print it out later. Acriflavine was the one med I think that I didn't order that I probably should have. Would you recommend that I go ahead and start treating with kanaplex for possible infection, or wait until after the freshwater dip? Oh I also have Methylene blue as well, for some reason I keep forgetting I have that one. I think for the next fish I get I'm going to see if I can source some chloroquine phosphate through my regular vet.

You can start Kanaplex now and still do a FW dip later.

However, eliminating the parasites on them would be my top priority. You can use copper (I prefer chelated i.e. Coppersafe) or this should make CP easier for you to obtain: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a-place-to-buy-chloroquine.252610/
 
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GHsaltie

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Humblefish

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Would u recommend that I dose according to the bottle or a different dosage for the kanaplex?

I administer a total of 5 doses, spaced out over 10 days - so every 48 hrs. The 3 doses the bottle recommends is not long enough IMO.
 
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GHsaltie

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I administer a total of 5 doses, spaced out over 10 days - so every 48 hrs. The 3 doses the bottle recommends is not long enough IMO.

Gotcha, I'll get on that right away. I've got about 10 minutes left until the freshwater dip is ready, I'll give another update then.
Random question though that I just thought of. In regards to water changes, how do you guys go about that with a medicated QT?
 
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GHsaltie

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Finished the dip and there were no signs of gill flukes. He also dumped a giant healthy turd in the bucket, so I think I can rule out the possibility of intestinal parasites for the time being. He's a little bit more active now after the dip than he had been this morning and I gave him some nori which he is eating little bits of. I'm holding out hope that he will keep trucking until the meds arrive tomorrow morning. I saw a couple very small specs on his pectoral fins and caudal fin that I don't think were there yesterday. I couldn't get a good enough picture though. I did confirm however that he was very much exposed to velvet while still at the store, I lost three beautiful ORA clowns this morning and they had all been showing multiple symptoms yesterday of velvet and possibly something else, I'm not sure.
 
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GHsaltie

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Just a couple new pics to satisfy @melypr1985 ;)
image.jpeg image.jpeg
These are post-dip. In the second picture if you look really closely you might be able to see 2 or 3 of the spots on his fin (I apologize for the dirty glass, it's not helping my picture taking skills any :oops:). I think his color might be paler today than yesterday, but that might just be a trick of the lighting being that it was darker in the room last night.
 

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Hope the guy pulls through. My juv. Koran died last week. Same symptoms as above but with no spots and increased fin rot of the pectoral. Tried a few things but to no avail. Strange thing was he was still eating like a horse.In the end it was a very rapid deterioration. Seemed ok at 12 and was dead by 1.
That's the second one I've lost although the first one was 20 years ago.
Good luck. Will be following this thread .
 
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GHsaltie

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Hope the guy pulls through. My juv. Koran died last week. Same symptoms as above but with no spots and increased fin rot of the pectoral. Tried a few things but to no avail. Strange thing was he was still eating like a horse.In the end it was a very rapid deterioration. Seemed ok at 12 and was dead by 1.
That's the second one I've lost although the first one was 20 years ago.
Good luck. Will be following this thread .

So sorry to hear about your angel, did you ever find out what happened to it? I think that's my biggest fear with this guy because he's going strong right now but I know he can literally drop dead within hours.
 

Craigwood

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Initially it was being picked on by my ready to spawn female percula clown. She's a big bruiser of a clown and aggressive towards me but not any other fish. Took a nibble out of the korans tail and pectoral them really went to town harassing it. So I removed her to the sump as punishment. The koran never really recovered from that . The tail started to grow back but the pectorals got increasingly more eroded and a velvet coating began to appear over the main part of the body.Only very slight at first . I should have removed the koran at this point but I thought I could coax it round with decent food infused with garlic as it was still eating for its country. And I thought that chasing it around the tank and moving rocks in an attempt to catch it would only aggravate the condition. It was like that for over a week never getting any better but not getting any worse. Then overnight where it's pectoral fins touched it's body red sores appeared and the skin was broken. Fished it out there and then but by then the damaged had been done. Treated the koran with what I had on hand but I knew it was too little too late. And it died less than an hour later.
Really began to worry for other tank inhabitants. Especiall the Regal tang. Coral beauty.and my 16 year old yellow tang.
But a week later all tank mates seem to be ok.
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94ea602d1df0d873e541655e7981af27.jpg
 

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