How much Aluminum will it leach? Let's guess

OP
OP
jason2459

jason2459

Not a paid scientist
View Badges
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
4,667
Reaction score
3,185
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I am not dosing any carbon source but the bacteria is the type you would get from overdosing vodka, vinegar etc. I had been dosing Amino acids but stopped a couple of weeks ago. The bacterial growth lessened but did not go away.

This bacteria has been very persistent and I have been unable to identify the cause. I sent @twilliard a sample of it and he is not familiar with this strain.

I am not saying the block is causing it , I'm basically grasping at straws trying to find a cause.

The block is an excellent home for bacteria but will not drive it's growth. Something else will be doing that like amino acids or nitrate dosing...
 
OP
OP
jason2459

jason2459

Not a paid scientist
View Badges
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
4,667
Reaction score
3,185
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
And my larger sponge is gaping way more then normal again and receeding ... I'd say this entire series of events is repeatable

646cda215ce6cab39a306fa0d2336ec9.jpg
 
OP
OP
jason2459

jason2459

Not a paid scientist
View Badges
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
4,667
Reaction score
3,185
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Looks like Brightwell just released their brick and plate

http://www.marinedepot.com/BW01680+...225343965&mc_cid=7b945b0e78&mc_eid=f5958783f8


And I love their description of what boils down to ceramic. But I'm curious what the aragonite doped is and I don't see it having an effect like the describe vs other products. Have to love marketing especially from a company known to stretch the truth so far it breaks...
Brightwell-Aquatics-Xport-BIO-Plate-98.jpg


Brightwell-Aquatics-Xport-NO3-Dimpled-Brick-98.jpg
 
OP
OP
jason2459

jason2459

Not a paid scientist
View Badges
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
4,667
Reaction score
3,185
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Claimed surface area comparisons is interesting.

MarinePure Products
Surface area (per indvidual piece)

1½” Marinepure Sphere: 240 sq ft
2" Marinepure Cube: 720 sq ft
8"x8"x1” Marinepure Block: 5,750 sq ft
8"x8"x4”Marinepure Block: 23,000 sq ft


BW01765.jpg
 
OP
OP
jason2459

jason2459

Not a paid scientist
View Badges
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
4,667
Reaction score
3,185
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
And this is interesting...

Kent's re-branding since they do own Brightwell now...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IJZFTEE/ref=s9_acsd_hps_bw_c_x_2
"Exxodus-BAC Brick", Sized 9" x 4.5" x 2.5" for biofiltration, 1 Brick
by Continuum Aquatics
  • Unique Ceramic material provides over 71,000 Square feet of surface area per liter
  • Doped with aragonite to Buffer pH at the bacterial level
  • Will also reduce toxic ammonia and nitrates when used as directed and properly colonized

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01IJZFTAI/ref=s9_acsd_hps_bw_c_x_3
"Exxodus-Nitryx Plate", Sized 9" x 8" x 1.5" for Nitrate Reduction, 1 Plate
by Continuum Aquatics

  • Unique Ceramic material provides over 71,000 Square feet of surface area per liter
  • So Porous that it wicks water and stays wet for days when drained, allowing bacteria to stay viable
  • Also reduces phosphate significantly and dissolved organics
 

CJBuckeyes

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 10, 2016
Messages
263
Reaction score
163
Location
San Francisco
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Awesome thread, and perfect timing. I just got my triton results back two days ago. My 70g tank has been up for about 9 months running an 8 x8 x 4 marine pure block. I removed it after reading this thread. Do I think the Aluminum is harmful? Probably not... but why risk it? I've been having to dose NO3 like crazy lately, so it's not even needed. Gone.

Screen Shot 2016-08-03 at 11.03.17 PM.png
 

jake2045

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 21, 2015
Messages
45
Reaction score
7
Location
Virginia Beach
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I have one of the older Export REEF plates in my sump and if feels nothing like ceramic very brittle and soft.
 
OP
OP
jason2459

jason2459

Not a paid scientist
View Badges
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
4,667
Reaction score
3,185
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I have one of the older Export REEF plates in my sump and if feels nothing like ceramic very brittle and soft.

Ceramic can very much be just like that. In fact if you break off any part of the marinepure media its exactly the same.

If you look at my post above of Kent's rebrand description of the exact same product they call it as it is which is ceramic media.

I have a very hard time trusting Brightwell's marketing even after being taken over by Kent as there are false claims or truths bent out of line in not just one product of theirs.
 
Last edited:

CenlaReefer

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Messages
336
Reaction score
220
Location
Central Louisiana
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I have been running MarinePure media balls in my sump for about 1 year. I think the stuff is great for harboring bacteria. My system has shown improvement with control of cyanobacteria because of this stuff. Also, it has allowed me to run my system bare-bottom for both my 75 gallon display and for my sump. In the sump, I do keep some Tupperwear containers with Carib Sea reef mud mix topped with medium grain aragonite.

Here is my recent problem and concern: when cleaning out my sump over the weekend, I did not follow my preferred practice of using a dedicated shop vac to get rid of detritus from the bottom of the sump. Instead, I used the old-school method of using a turkey baster. I took out a decent amount of detritus yet also stirred up the bottom of the bare-bottom sump a good bit. I am concerned that I stirred up a collection of dust from the MarinePure bio media which settled on the bottom of the sump. During the next 2 days, I lost 1 tuxedo urchin and had to transfer 2 other very lethargic tuxedo urchins to my 10 gallon softie-only tank. The urchins are now doing quite well. Another problem I have been observing is that I cannot keep emerald crabs alive in my 75 gallon system with the sump. They do very well, having great longevity in my 10 gallon tank that does not have the MarinePure biomedia. That seems to be the only major difference between the 2 tanks. The 10 gallon system has a HOB fuge with chaeto.

Below is an excellent free video documentary that has many folks concerned about refined aluminum products for the health of people and our environment:



Inert aluminum oxide or variants of that which occur very commonly in the earth's crust do not pose a problem at all. Refined aluminum products derived from a complex refinery process can be very dangerous. I am interested in what you all think about refined aluminum products for both our health and for that of marine and freshwater pet health.

This may be a crazy idea, but here goes. I would rather not throw out the MarinePure balls that I spent a good bit of money on. What do you all think about encapsulating the MarinePure biomedia in a layer of concrete to prevent the media from breaking-up and causing this dust to accumulate in the tank? I still think that water can permeate through a layer of concrete to utilize the benefit of the bacteria. Still, would this cause stagnant water deep inside the balls to become too stagnant and anoxic?
 
Last edited:

Turbo's Aquatics

Super Duper Member
View Badges
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Messages
2,799
Reaction score
4,022
Location
West Des Moines, IA
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
What's shakin' Bill!!
using a dedicated shop vac to get rid of detritus from the bottom of the sump
That's hilarious!!

Good info and good questions....not sure the concrete encapsulation would work, I guess it depends on how thin/porous that layer is, and if that concrete layer would itself break up over time
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

Reef Chemist
View Badges
Joined
Sep 5, 2014
Messages
66,527
Reaction score
62,817
Location
Arlington, Massachusetts, United States
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I have been running MarinePure media balls in my sump for about 1 year. I think the stuff is great for harboring bacteria. My system has shown improvement with control of cyanobacteria because of this stuff. Also, it has allowed me to run my system bare-bottom for both my 75 gallon display and for my sump. In the sump, I do keep some Tupperwear containers with Carib Sea reef mud mix topped with medium grain aragonite.

Here is my recent problem and concern: when cleaning out my sump over the weekend, I did not follow my preferred practice of using a dedicated shop vac to get rid of detritus from the bottom of the sump. Instead, I used the old-school method of using a turkey baster. I took out a decent amount of detritus yet also stirred up the bottom of the bare-bottom sump a good bit. I am concerned that I stirred up a collection of dust from the MarinePure bio media which settled on the bottom of the sump. During the next 2 days, I lost 1 tuxedo urchin and had to transfer 2 other very lethargic tuxedo urchins to my 10 gallon softie-only tank. The urchins are now doing quite well. Another problem I have been observing is that I cannot keep emerald crabs alive in my 75 gallon system with the sump. They do very well, having great longevity in my 10 gallon tank that does not have the MarinePure biomedia. That seems to be the only major difference between the 2 tanks. The 10 gallon system has a HOB fuge with chaeto.

Below is an excellent free video documentary that has many folks concerned about refined aluminum products for the health of people and our environment:



Inert aluminum oxide or variants of that which occur very commonly in the earth's crust do not pose a problem at all. Refined aluminum products derived from a complex refinery process can be very dangerous. I am interested in what you all think about refined aluminum products for both our health and for that of marine and freshwater pet health.

This may be a crazy idea, but here goes. I would rather not throw out the MarinePure balls that I spent a good bit of money on. What do you all think about encapsulating the MarinePure biomedia in a layer of concrete to prevent the media from breaking-up and causing this dust to accumulate in the tank? I still think that water can permeate through a layer of concrete to utilize the benefit of the bacteria. Still, would this cause stagnant water deep inside the balls to become too stagnant and anoxic?


I don't think the permeation will be adequate to be useful.

I'm also not sure what you mean by refined aluminum products as it is not likely aluminum metal that interacts with biological tissues, but aluminum ions, which can come from dissolving aluminum salts, including aluminum oxide, which is not inter to dissolving. :)
 

CenlaReefer

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Messages
336
Reaction score
220
Location
Central Louisiana
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I don't think the permeation will be adequate to be useful.

I'm also not sure what you mean by refined aluminum products as it is not likely aluminum metal that interacts with biological tissues, but aluminum ions, which can come from dissolving aluminum salts, including aluminum oxide, which is not inter to dissolving. :)

Regarding permeation, I just read from the MarinePure website Q & A section that the media is still useful for biological filtration even if the media is totally encapsulated in coralline algae. Still, coralline algae would be thinner than a layer of concrete.

I am not a chemist, but I understand that pure aluminum has more toxicity than aluminum oxide. That documentary I inserted above has some good evidence that pure aluminum is a neurotoxin and can be toxic to other tissues in both mankind and animals. It is impossible that aluminum oxide can be as toxic because it is one of the most common substances in the earth's crust. I compare that to sodium chloride (salt) as being essential for our health yet chloride gas as being toxic. I wonder what sort of process or aluminum compounds MarinePure uses in making what they call "aluminosilicate ceramic." Still, some folks on this thread are showing increased aluminum levels per Triton testing after introducing MarinePure media.
 

CenlaReefer

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Messages
336
Reaction score
220
Location
Central Louisiana
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Anyone see that Brightwell is coming out next month with a competitor product. It also comes impregnated with sulphur or GFO.

The above statement is not quite accurate. Jack Kent at Brightwell told me this via email:

"We have 3 different products, BIO, NO3 and PO4. All are doped with aragonite. The NO3 is also doped with sulfur, which will wear out after 5 years or so (will a new pump even last that long?), but the product will continue to function, just not at as much capacity (and that point it will still be much more functional than marine pure, due to our much larger surface area). The PO4 is doped with GFO and due to the huge surface is 10 or more times as effective at PO4 removal as GFO and the GFO will wear out just like any GFO, but the product is more economical to use because it removes so much phosphate."

For those wanting just plain surface area for bacteria, the BIO product is the way to go. He also says this product uses some aluminum oxide to make it, yet significant testing does not show any aluminum going into water when using this product.
 
OP
OP
jason2459

jason2459

Not a paid scientist
View Badges
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
4,667
Reaction score
3,185
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I would change some of those words around for more accuracy.

I would believe the product uses a significant amount of aluminum and some Al will leach into the water.

Remember Marine BIO also states their product will not leach at all either.

We also have from Kent's other product which is the same thing as the Brightwell line saying it is a ceramic. I posted those above.

Sales and marketing, gotta love it.
 
OP
OP
jason2459

jason2459

Not a paid scientist
View Badges
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
4,667
Reaction score
3,185
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
And before I get the comments or PMs I'm just a hater....

I don't see why the brightwell/kent block wouldn't be a great home for bacteria.

I do not believe it has that much more surface area then marine pure.

But I do like the size options.

I wouldn't waste money on the infused ones though. Especially the GFO one. I don't know how long the other one would last but still not one I would want.
 

A worm with high fashion and practical utility: Have you ever kept feather dusters in your reef aquarium?

  • I currently have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 64 36.8%
  • Not currently, but I have had feather dusters in my tank in the past.

    Votes: 59 33.9%
  • I have not had feather dusters, but I hope to in the future.

    Votes: 25 14.4%
  • I have no plans to have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 26 14.9%
  • Other.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
Back
Top