How to learn this hobby

Squid

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I agree everytime this topic gets brought up which is probably half a dozen times a year, go slow and start off doing things manualy.
 

briancarterkc

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Your first point is spot on. About 13 years ago I was working as a technical trainer for computer system engineers. We spent 4 weeks teaching them to install and configure a very complex set of enterprise software.

At the end of the class, the students be so mad when I unveiled that there was an automated process where they just have to type one command and wait 3 hours for it to finish. I explained that if they didn't learn the manual way, they wouldn't know what to do if the automated process broke.
 

BoneXriffic

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Paul B

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I still do everything manually and right now I like it that way. .:)

I also still do everything manually and I have been doing this since Eisenhower was President. (he was after Lincoln)
 

jaws789832

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I think I might be the only one that somewhat disagrees with this. If the technology is there to make your tank healthy and happy from the start why not use it as a beginner. 30-40 years ago I tried setting up a saltwater tank. Skimmers weren't readily available (if at all). Live rock was unheard of. Undrgravel filters and some type of canister filter, with crushed coral as a substrate was the norm. It was basically a freshwater system with saltwater. Did it work? well sort of. You could keep things alive a little while, but a lot of things did die. Jump ahead to now. All the technology that makes fish live a long healthy happy life I think should be used. When I first started back 5 years ago, no ATO, no dosing pumps, no controller. I was dumping a gallon of freshwater into a 30 gallon system a day. Did that change the salinity a bit? by all means it did. Is that good for the fish? Probably not. Having a ATO do it over the course of the day is way better and keeps things stable and heathy, so why not use an ATO from the get go. Same goes with a doser. I first started dosing using 2 part and dumping it in at one time. I would watch my PH go from 8.1 to 8.3 in a matter of seconds. Is this good for the critters? I would say not, so why not use a doser where it adds the same amount but over the course of the day. and everything remains stable. None of these things eliminate maintenance, they just keep a better system that is more stable. You still have to know why you are doing it and how much, and you do this through testing and watching you system.

I guess it boils down to there are 3 different types of people in this hobby. Those that are true DIY'ers. They like the satisfaction of doing everything themselves. Making a ATO drip system or doser without a pump. Using a homemade skimmer, or overflow, making their own sump or lighting system, or inventing something totally new and experimenting with it. The hobby needs these people and they lead to a lot of great advancement for the hobby. But everyone won't or cant fit into this category.
Then there are people like me. I don't have the knowhow, tools or the will to make my own stuff so I go out and buy the newest and greatest gadgets. I take the hobby seriously and want whats best for the critters that I am in charge of but I don't want to reinvent the wheel. I do know why am I buying the things I do and I know what I am trying to accomplish but I don't exactly know how they work I just know (in most cases) they do. I still try and learn as much as I can about everything in the hobby. I don't take things I read on these forums as gospel as I have learned a long time ago there are more than 1 way to do most things, most aren't wrong or right, some just work better for me.The last group I really wouldn't call hobbiest (and its most likely the people that are being talked about). These are the ones who want the beauty and instant satisfaction without going the the trials and tribulations. If they could pay someone to take care of their tank they probably would but most cant afford that. In a way there is nothing wrong with this, because we all do it when we go to a public aquarium. They appreciate the beauty and serenity of a tank but don't have the time or willpower to properly take care of it. They want instant fixes and instant results. The people on Tanked come to mind although most of them can afford it. Unfortunately these are the people who but a tank and usually end up tearing it down within a year when they find out how much work (or fun depending on how you look at it) it actually is. These are the ones you are buying that great used equipment off of craigslist, so they do play a vital role for the other 2 groups (mainly the one I am in LOL)

As far as a controller, I do use one and feel it is a necessary piece of equipment for me. I work 3 straight days on and have 6 days off so while I am at work I think having the ability to monitor my tank and shut things on and off as needed it vital to my success. To say that all noobs should just start with a glass box and relearn everything that is already known is digressing. Why have a beginner go though a GHA, or cyano or dino outbreak so they can fix it, when we can help them set up their systems from the getgo to minimize the risks of these things ever occurring in the first place. Anyways just my 2 cents that in this day and age is only worth 1.
 

nervousmonkey

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Great write up! And I agree whole heartedly, learn to do things manually so if something were to ever arise you know how to handle the situation better than running around like a chicken with its head cut off. It would also cut down on the, "help urgent something broke" threads haha
HAHA! So true! Real story, when I first got an Apex to "control" everything, I saw my external skimmer overflowing because the pump was crazy. I could NOT turn that thing off. I know everyone is going to say, "Why not just unplug it, idiot?" but I didn't know which of the two energy bars it was plugged into, which is stupid, but I panicked looking for my phone, and finally ran to my computer to turn it off by Fusion... I felt like a chicken with his head cut off... Before I had Apex, I would have known exactly which outlet that thing was plugged into... So, controllers are great, I love 'em, but they make you forget some of the basics. I agree 100%!!
 
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Humblefish

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I think it is also good to leave your pride at the door and ask for advice. Nobody will think you are stupid for trying to do the best for the animals in your care.

^^Agree. As much as I know about fish diseases, I beg for help when it comes time to plumb a new tank and figure out all the equipment. :p

Humblefish, I actually agree with you on this. :)
I wrote it just for you, Paul. ;)
 

revhtree

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Nice thread!
 

BMan

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Good read. I'm new to the site and just getting back into the hobby after a 20 year hiatus. Back in the day, I had a small reef tank which was totally manual and ran for 10 years without any real issues. I had a home made sump, small protein skimmer, live rock from Floida and ran full spectrum fluorescent tubes. I built an auto top off for my sump by burning a small hole at the bottom of a two letter soda bottle and extended its height by cutting a second soda bottle and turning it upside down and gluing the two together. The bottle was filled with makeup water and capped. The hole was at the height of the water in my sump. As the sump lost level due to evaporation, the hole was exposed and the kalk rich RO water trickled out until the hole was covered again. I didn't have 95% of the things that are available today. Truth be told, I don't plan on buying any of the hi tech gadgets for my new system. I think some of the gagets I see today are great, but not needed to keep a successful tank. No matter how you go about it, there's a learning curve. I hope I remember half of what I learned when I had that tank. I looking forward to getting up and running.
 

CenlaReefer

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Another aspect of taking things slow is to quarintine all fish, corals, and livestock. So many new reefers are optomistic and skip this step and get burned. I speak from experience. Properly quarintining livestock takes time and effort yet can save one from months if not years of aggravation and lots of money. If you cannot take the time to do this, get corals from someone like Jason Fox who have been meticulously careful to do so for all his incoming corals.
 

nervousmonkey

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Another aspect of taking things slow is to quarintine all fish, corals, and livestock. So many new reefers are optomistic and skip this step and get burned. I speak from experience. Properly quarintining livestock takes time and effort yet can save one from months if not years of aggravation and lots of money. If you cannot take the time to do this, get corals from someone like Jason Fox who have been meticulously careful to do so for all his incoming corals.
+1 to this advice for sure. Every reefer will eventually get burned on this one, it's simply a matter of time. I think one of the problems with teaching a new reefer is that they are so focused on just understanding what's going on with their new tank, trying to keep fish and corals alive, figuring out and understanding the equipment they have on their systems that we told them to buy, etc, etc., that they just go into learning overload and don't understand a QT tank, and also don't really need one frankly, since their system is new and is essentially a QT/test/laboratory tank, or it might as well be a QT tank. At least mine was if y'alls wasn't. Serious, my fish have never had ich, but they've definitely had Lloyd Ich... I've done some stuff to my fish on accident that would make the papers if they were human... :eek: Anyway, back to the point, new reefers need to be told over and over again, ALONG with the advice about cycling, protein skimmers, sumps, plumbing, chemistry and biochemistry, salt mixing, and so on, to make their life easy and keep disease out of their tank by going to Petco when Petco having the dollar a gallon sale and spending $20 or $40 on a tank to set aside for incoming livestock. We as a community need to educate them about disease and the importance of a QT just as much as the nitrogen cycle, proper lighting, and good filtration, and we need to tell them that a QT can and should be the easiest thing they set up as part of their new *system*; the tank with fresh SW, some left over PVC for a fish house for when the fish get scared (poor little fisheroos think we are going to fillet them, butter 'em and fry 'em I guess), a heater, air pump, maybe a HOB filter that's been converted to use SW media, and a small light, and that's it... There is a lot more to it than that really, but imagine a new reefer asking what disease we think an animal has when the animal is in a QT tank rather than them just getting frustrated and leaving the hobby? We can point them to our fish experts like @Humblefish and others to tell them which medications to have on hand and when to prophylactically treat and when to treat based on disease symptoms.
***As a community, We need to do a better job educating them and telling them our stories of failure and success, so they can learn from it, not be intimidated or scared, stay in the hobby, and go on to become the next generation reefers.***
That's why we are on R2R. We are smarter, nicer, gentler, kinder reefers. So I agree with everyone, but add that we need to be better teachers; if someone doesn't feel like mentoring that's fine, there are plenty of other people who like helping out.

Soapbox tirade over.
 

Robthorn

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I think I might be the only one that somewhat disagrees with this. If the technology is there to make your tank healthy and happy from the start why not use it as a beginner. 30-40 years ago I tried setting up a saltwater tank. Skimmers weren't readily available (if at all). Live rock was unheard of. Undrgravel filters and some type of canister filter, with crushed coral as a substrate was the norm. It was basically a freshwater system with saltwater. Did it work? well sort of. You could keep things alive a little while, but a lot of things did die. Jump ahead to now. All the technology that makes fish live a long healthy happy life I think should be used. When I first started back 5 years ago, no ATO, no dosing pumps, no controller. I was dumping a gallon of freshwater into a 30 gallon system a day. Did that change the salinity a bit? by all means it did. Is that good for the fish? Probably not. Having a ATO do it over the course of the day is way better and keeps things stable and heathy, so why not use an ATO from the get go. Same goes with a doser. I first started dosing using 2 part and dumping it in at one time. I would watch my PH go from 8.1 to 8.3 in a matter of seconds. Is this good for the critters? I would say not, so why not use a doser where it adds the same amount but over the course of the day. and everything remains stable. None of these things eliminate maintenance, they just keep a better system that is more stable. You still have to know why you are doing it and how much, and you do this through testing and watching you system.

I guess it boils down to there are 3 different types of people in this hobby. Those that are true DIY'ers. They like the satisfaction of doing everything themselves. Making a ATO drip system or doser without a pump. Using a homemade skimmer, or overflow, making their own sump or lighting system, or inventing something totally new and experimenting with it. The hobby needs these people and they lead to a lot of great advancement for the hobby. But everyone won't or cant fit into this category.
Then there are people like me. I don't have the knowhow, tools or the will to make my own stuff so I go out and buy the newest and greatest gadgets. I take the hobby seriously and want whats best for the critters that I am in charge of but I don't want to reinvent the wheel. I do know why am I buying the things I do and I know what I am trying to accomplish but I don't exactly know how they work I just know (in most cases) they do. I still try and learn as much as I can about everything in the hobby. I don't take things I read on these forums as gospel as I have learned a long time ago there are more than 1 way to do most things, most aren't wrong or right, some just work better for me.The last group I really wouldn't call hobbiest (and its most likely the people that are being talked about). These are the ones who want the beauty and instant satisfaction without going the the trials and tribulations. If they could pay someone to take care of their tank they probably would but most cant afford that. In a way there is nothing wrong with this, because we all do it when we go to a public aquarium. They appreciate the beauty and serenity of a tank but don't have the time or willpower to properly take care of it. They want instant fixes and instant results. The people on Tanked come to mind although most of them can afford it. Unfortunately these are the people who but a tank and usually end up tearing it down within a year when they find out how much work (or fun depending on how you look at it) it actually is. These are the ones you are buying that great used equipment off of craigslist, so they do play a vital role for the other 2 groups (mainly the one I am in LOL)

As far as a controller, I do use one and feel it is a necessary piece of equipment for me. I work 3 straight days on and have 6 days off so while I am at work I think having the ability to monitor my tank and shut things on and off as needed it vital to my success. To say that all noobs should just start with a glass box and relearn everything that is already known is digressing. Why have a beginner go though a GHA, or cyano or dino outbreak so they can fix it, when we can help them set up their systems from the getgo to minimize the risks of these things ever occurring in the first place. Anyways just my 2 cents that in this day and age is only worth 1.
 

Duke4Life

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I spend a great amount of time reading on things, if I'm on break at work I'm on my phone looking at stuff. Luckily a lot of the people I really admire in this hobby have written pages upon pages of stuff and never mind my questions.

Have patience and surround yourself with others that have the same passion! My 2 biggest keys in this hobby.
 

MCooper

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P.S. As much as I appear to wail on equipment & technology in the preceding post, the very first gadget you should buy is a controller which keeps track of your tank's temperature. Those can be a lifesaver if a heater sticks (which usually happens while you're on vacation. ;)) A Reefkeeper Lite with a temp probe might be the only new tank gadget they've made in the past 20 years that I found I really need. ;)

Agreed! First few tanks years ago without any gadgets at all. Lost an entire tank to a defualt heater, hence a controller for my new build!
 

BummersReef

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you all here on R2R do a huge service to people who are first starting by being soooo patient and accepting of newbies. seriously. For each of you who has tolerated a frustrating newbie question ... thank you!
btw can I put a hippo tang in my 28 gallon nano? :rolleyes:
 

nitro

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I love the stories you all have especially the one who have been in the hobby for a long time. I know a lot of these stories don't have a happy ending they were lessons learned the hard way and those things we do not forget.
Thanks, Larry
 

CenlaReefer

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Humblefish, thanks for starting this very important thread. Lloyd, thanks for the insight. I never thought of the comparison of a new reefers first tank being like a step-up from a qt tank.

If a new reefer is at his max capacity to keep his or her first tank stable (which is likely), starting a qt tank may likely be time, cognitive, and stress overoverload. Reefers new and old should make arrangements with experienced reefers to have them quarintine livestock. Of course this has to be someone who has an immense amount of care. Why should 5 reefers in a local cocommunity or even region setup qt tanks when one expert can do so and all around can share the fruits of his or her labors? Perhaps we should consider more "community reefing." I know my skill level and time restraints. I feel fine to qt some corals; however, I will NEVER qt fish again... NEVER. I had one OK experience for the first time and one terrible one the second go-around. When sharing qt tanks perhaps consider sharing frags or doing a grow-out which is a win-win situation. Regarding the qt of fish, I will always pay someone or trade frags for such service.
 
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nervousmonkey

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Humblefish, thanks for starting this very important thread. Lloyd, thanks for the insight. I never thought of the comparison of a new reefers first tank being like a step-up from a qt tank.

If a new reefer is at his max capacity to keep his or her first tank stable (which is likely), he should make arrangements with an experienced reefer to have them quarintine livestock. Perhaps consider sharing frags or doing a grow-out which is a win-win situation.
Great idea Eye Candy! I haven't thought of that before, but it would really work well. How many of us wanted a cool SPS frag when we started but killed it? LOL! I sure wish I'd had an experienced reefer to grow out my frags until my tank was ready...
Lloyd
 

A worm with high fashion and practical utility: Have you ever kept feather dusters in your reef aquarium?

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    Votes: 73 37.6%
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  • I have not had feather dusters, but I hope to in the future.

    Votes: 25 12.9%
  • I have no plans to have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 28 14.4%
  • Other.

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