Thanks for your Service Paul glad you are doing ok, I had a friend from the same war he was ok unless you got him drinking. But anyway Great tank and thanks so much for the info
How to make a tank last over forty years with few problems
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LostInTheDark
Active Member
Coincidence I just came home from Wegmans with a dozen clams the same day you post this. I through them in the freezer to kill any parasites and feed them diced up about once a week.
john.m.cole3
cyclOps
Hi Nicholas, good to see you here!
garethwood
Active Member
hi i feed my 4 fish.. flake once a day.. 1/2 cube of frozen mysis with omega 3 or brine with garlic once a day and switch this a week on and off with live copepods/mysis/brine. i do this every other week because thats the availability of it.. with your experience and knowledge of immunity am i going the right way? i have no quarintine capacity so i have to just buy from a good source and hope for the best so im keen to no if i could be doing anything extra to help my fish : )
nerses818
Active Member
Fantastic read. I'm by no means a great reefer but I like when I read about a technique or method of reefkeeping that simply makes sense. Although I do enjoy some of the chemistry and details of reefing that we have access to now and keep our tanks according to; there's truly something to be said for keeping things simple. I fully believe in your line of thought with immunity. With all the information available today it's easy to get lost in it all and forget how simple things like a good environment and healthy diet can promote a healthy life in fish just as it does with humans.
Fantastic tank btw, although it does feel weird to know that your tank has been running twice as long as I've been living [emoji23]
Fantastic tank btw, although it does feel weird to know that your tank has been running twice as long as I've been living [emoji23]
Frozn
Active Member
Interesting and well put point of view Paul.
Where do you get your worms? Are you buying nightcrawlers for fishing? Obviously frozen worms would negate the live benefits you discuss in your point.
How do you think tank mates would fair if such food started to be introduced to a tank?
Also, you talk about if a fish becomes covered in parasites you remove them. I've always had difficulty catching fish in a tank due to rock scape and coral growth. Even fish traps (of the bottle diy sort) can only catch so big of a fish. I've had stressed fish who had shown signs of sickness. I do not remove them but try to make sure i offer a varied diet and simply monitor them with their tank mates. They seem to fair most the time, in fact i don't think I've lost a fish directly related to sickness. More like abandon ship syndrome or simply bullying.
I would certainly be interested in feeding more live foods if it were more accessible. Solely for the fact that it is alive and would contribute to having a higher value of nutrients ~eat fresh!
Where/how do you aquire your live food and do you feed it daily? Would love to hear more on your regime in this regard, thanks!
Where do you get your worms? Are you buying nightcrawlers for fishing? Obviously frozen worms would negate the live benefits you discuss in your point.
How do you think tank mates would fair if such food started to be introduced to a tank?
Also, you talk about if a fish becomes covered in parasites you remove them. I've always had difficulty catching fish in a tank due to rock scape and coral growth. Even fish traps (of the bottle diy sort) can only catch so big of a fish. I've had stressed fish who had shown signs of sickness. I do not remove them but try to make sure i offer a varied diet and simply monitor them with their tank mates. They seem to fair most the time, in fact i don't think I've lost a fish directly related to sickness. More like abandon ship syndrome or simply bullying.
I would certainly be interested in feeding more live foods if it were more accessible. Solely for the fact that it is alive and would contribute to having a higher value of nutrients ~eat fresh!
Where/how do you aquire your live food and do you feed it daily? Would love to hear more on your regime in this regard, thanks!
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Paul B
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Hello Garethwood, nice to meet you. IMO, no, you are not feeding correctly if you want your fish immune. The diet you are using is fine if you just want to keep the fish alive as you are doing. This article was about getting fish into great shape and immune as well as spawning. I did mention in the article to use no flakes or dried foods and I would not use any adult brine shrimp although new born brine shrimp are great but only tiny fish or fry would see those. I would try to get something like maybe LRS foods or some other frozen food that is composed of whole animals like clams and also use those frozen Mysis you have been doing.
For this article on immunity you also need something with live bacteria in it and that would be store bought clams or live worms such as blackworms which are IMO the best food for that.
Frozn, if you are worried about parasites, your fish won't get any from worms as worms are fresh water creatures and any parasites they may have, would die in salt water.
Nerses, My hermit crabs have Canker sores older than you.
I buy live blackworms at a LFS. They are fairly common in stores in New York. You can get them on line but you have to buy a lot of them. I built a wormkeeper to keep them alive at room temperature. If I could not get blackworms, I would not be in this hobby as that is my key ingredient besides clams.
When I mentioned catching a fish that was covered in parasites, I was talking about when you first set up the tank and there was only a few rocks in it. Not a full blown reef because using my system correctly you will never have a fish covered in parasites. I never have in 40 years because they are immune. After a while, when the tank has matured and the fish are all immune you can start to add fish and corals and not have to catch any. But remember, this is only by feeding the foods I mentioned and when the fish are spawning as they all should be doing.
You can also raise whiteworms as they grow in soil
Blackworms in their keeper.
Clams
Frozn
Active Member
Great info Paul. I can't believe I've never looked into blackworms. I think I've always correlated them to bloodworms as those are the only ones i ever see!
Few more questions if i may - you say room temp, i would like to keep this in the basement if i plan a worm keeper. Whats a minimum temp i should be aiming for? I live in michigan, so i would think maybe only the winters i would have an issue. Unless kept in my fishroom, but i dont think i have the room.
Also what food are you feeding to the worms. You said paper napkin or paper bag? Sounds interesting lol
Few more questions if i may - you say room temp, i would like to keep this in the basement if i plan a worm keeper. Whats a minimum temp i should be aiming for? I live in michigan, so i would think maybe only the winters i would have an issue. Unless kept in my fishroom, but i dont think i have the room.
Also what food are you feeding to the worms. You said paper napkin or paper bag? Sounds interesting lol
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Paul B
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The worms like it cool so the cold won't bother them. Mine are room temp which is about 68 but cooler is better. Most people keep them I a refrigerator.
I feed them instant mashed potatoes, paper towels, oat meal or anything else. They don't actually eat that stuff but are filter feeders and live off the waste products of those things. Lately I have been giving them Nutritional Yeast because I take it myself.
I feed the worms every few days or when I remember but I give my fish a few worms every day along with clams and Mysis and sometimes LRS food.
My fish eating some worms. Every fish in that video (except the copperband) is spawning including the mandarin
I feed them instant mashed potatoes, paper towels, oat meal or anything else. They don't actually eat that stuff but are filter feeders and live off the waste products of those things. Lately I have been giving them Nutritional Yeast because I take it myself.
I feed the worms every few days or when I remember but I give my fish a few worms every day along with clams and Mysis and sometimes LRS food.
My fish eating some worms. Every fish in that video (except the copperband) is spawning including the mandarin
Shaun Sweeney
Active Member
Absolutely fascinating! After 4 years, I think I'm in the "fusion zone" so sign me up. I've run UG filters but I'm a little fuzzy on your comment about reversing it. Could you please explain? I've just switched to 100% local ocean water. I'm on Van. Island so our salinity is low at 0.020 but by adding a bit of salt, everything comes into line and so far my 140 gallon established tank is just fine. Wish I had seen this a couple of months ago, before I put sand in the new tank. I would have installed a UG filter. Oh well, onwards and upwards.
I find the undergravel filter facinating. Especially the comment about keeping it oxygen saturated. What kind of gravel? Oyster shells?
Your not going to mention your algae turf scrubber Paul? How long has it been used? What other filters besides the diatom filter?
Question. If you reduced the alkalinity to 3 dkh, would your fish get sick?
I feed my 14 green chromis 2-6 times a day micro pellets. Never lost a single chromis. Ive had 4 of them 2 years, the other 10 were added 2-3 months ago. I believe you can feed them less with blackworms, but can compensate with more feedings of dry foods. My fish never get sick. I also don't quarantine. I believe if they are fed enough, they will overcome sickness providing water quality isn't an issue or bullying/territorial issues.
Your not going to mention your algae turf scrubber Paul? How long has it been used? What other filters besides the diatom filter?
Question. If you reduced the alkalinity to 3 dkh, would your fish get sick?
I feed my 14 green chromis 2-6 times a day micro pellets. Never lost a single chromis. Ive had 4 of them 2 years, the other 10 were added 2-3 months ago. I believe you can feed them less with blackworms, but can compensate with more feedings of dry foods. My fish never get sick. I also don't quarantine. I believe if they are fed enough, they will overcome sickness providing water quality isn't an issue or bullying/territorial issues.
Absolutely fascinating! After 4 years, I think I'm in the "fusion zone" so sign me up. I've run UG filters but I'm a little fuzzy on your comment about reversing it. Could you please explain? I've just switched to 100% local ocean water. I'm on Van. Island so our salinity is low at 0.020 but by adding a bit of salt, everything comes into line and so far my 140 gallon established tank is just fine. Wish I had seen this a couple of months ago, before I put sand in the new tank. I would have installed a UG filter. Oh well, onwards and upwards.
Instead of sucking the water down, you reverse the water up through the gravel. Reversing the powerhead on the ugf will accomplish that, by pushing the water into it.
marinworld
New Member
Paul B,You may find some of my log book interesting. Look at the dates and the medications I used. Remember in 1972 there were no medications for salt water fish and we used pennies for copper. I only posted when something bad happened even though it looks like my fish were always sick. Most of the time, they probably were as no one, including me knew what we were doing. All these fish were also in a 30 gallon tank.
I find it interesting here that I was keeping French Angels, Moorish Idol, tangs and copperbands in the 70s.
Here it seems I cured a French Angel of HLLE using vitamin A or fish oil. I have been giving it to my fish ever since.
Here I wrote that I removed a tumor from the belly of a tetradon puffer five years before he died. That tumor was inside his belly and I had to cut him open to do that, Then I force fed him for a while and he was cured.
Interesting your comments regarding how you ran your system over many years. Obviously there are many ways to have a successful aquarium. I have been in the business importing and selling marine fish since 1965, and I am more than familiar with the progression the hobby has taken. I am a bit perplexed by your statement saying there was no medication available for saltwater fish in 1972, and you had to use copper pennies. Not true. We had many medications prior to 1972 including copper remedies. In fact there were more antibiotics in those days, than there are today, that worked quite well to treat problems. Most of these antibiotics can no longer be purchased except through a prescription these days.
Suggest you see if you can find a copy of the book: Diseases of Fish by C. Van Dujin. This book was published originally in 1956, and is loaded with remedies for treating fish. We sold 100's of copies of this book over the years, and many treatments are still relevant today.
Don
MARINE WORLD
Paul, I realize I won't change your practices but I caution anyone who believes parasites to be durable to read a little on pathology. Organisms are best served by 1) eliminating parasites and 2) increasing their health. A little detail: 1) Organisms that are healthy can survive attempts by pests or pathogens unless the pathogen pressure is so high as to overcome the organisms resistances. 2) Organisms with weak or compromised immune systems are more susceptible to parasites. Therefore it is desirable for the health of the organism to decrease occurences of pathogens and to increase immunity. Your comment that subjecting to organisms will improve their immunity is false and dangerous. It gives the impression that we should subject our fish to parasites and diseases and is animal cruelty. I know, as a peta critic I shudder at my utterance but it's true. There is a reason why Carter's program to eliminate guinea worms in humans are to both improve human nutrition and eradicate the presence of guinea worms rather than taking the approach of injecting humans with guinea worms...
You might counter my statements by saying you have been successful all these years with parasites present in your tank. It's my opinion that you probably either the parasites were not there as you may have believed or your fish were healthy and resistant, not because of but despite of parasites.
You might counter my statements by saying you have been successful all these years with parasites present in your tank. It's my opinion that you probably either the parasites were not there as you may have believed or your fish were healthy and resistant, not because of but despite of parasites.
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Paul B
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Shaun, Thank You.Absolutely fascinating! After 4 years, I think I'm in the "fusion zone" so sign me up. I've run UG filters but I'm a little fuzzy on your comment about reversing it. Could you please explain? I've just switched to 100% local ocean water. I'm on Van. Island so our salinity is low at 0.020 but by adding a bit of salt, everything comes into line and so far my 140 gallon established tank is just fine. Wish I had seen this a couple of months ago, before I put sand in the new tank. I would have installed a UG filter. Oh well, onwards and upwards.
The reverse UG filter just pushes water down the tubes instead of up the tubes. I run it very slow.
The algae scrubber has been there maybe 15 years in different configurations. My tank is and always has been an experiment and never was designed to be a piece of artwork or beauty.
Marine World, thank you for commenting. Here In New York the only store that has salt water fish in 1971 was "Aquarium Stock Company" in Manhattan a couple of blocks from the World Trade Center. Here we had no salt water medications or fish. I guess where you come from, you did so I should have said, I didn't have any salt water medications and we used pennies. I did not invent that, it was Robert Straughn "The Father of Salt Water Fish Keeping" who wrote the "Salt Water Aquarium in the Home" which was my bible. But as I am not the God of fish you are probably correct.
Zieg, thank you also for posting, but we will have to agree to dis agree because I disagree with your entire post. I suggest we treat our fish as they are treated in the sea, parasites and all. You mention that I will say that I have been successful for many years and that is true. If you can keep your fish "spawning" and disease free for their entire "normal" presumed lifespan, which in some cases is 30 years, I feel that you succeeded. Anything less is failure. All of my paired fish are spawning and all my fish live long enough to die of old age (or jump out) That is all I can hope for
Here is a thread I started on fish immunity. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/a-discussion-on-immunity.209701/
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