How to make a tank last over forty years with few problems

[Aliyanna]

After time intensive research I am able to say: I know what's a reverse under gravel filter. Seems not to be common in germany, i didn't found more than 1 shop (well-known shop) selling supplies.
Unfortunately I only found descriptions from how to put in the tank, what you need (waterpump or airstone) but I have no idea why this is working and where the heck does all the water go?
Anyone here with a link, please?
*looking with big brown eyes around, like a small puppy*

 

[Paul B]

Zeig, thanks, I am corrected by everyone, including my wife.

 

[mazoli]

Just curious, do you "clean" the balckworms, same as it is a good practice with tubifex (to rinse and change water several times before you feed them)?

Also why tubifex is not preferred, I bet you tried it

 

[Paul B]

Aliyanna, I am sure if you looked up Reverse UG filters you didn't get any good reviews as I am one of the only people using them. I am surprised in Germany you can't find much because this hobby started there.

Mazoli, I do not do anything to the blackworms. They are raised in ponds in California and need no rinsing or cleaning. You can use tubifex worms which are much thinner and are raised in drainage ditches and feeding troughs. Those things live on sewage so if you want to use them, I would keep them for a week in clean water.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Organisms are best served by 1) eliminating parasites and 2) increasing their health.

That actually IS what he's saying. Clean your tank, feed your pets well.

It gives the impression that we should subject our fish to parasites and diseases and is animal cruelty.

The impression I always I got was, keep your animals pen clean and healthy and you wont have to freak out if you get fleas. If you have fleas once in awhile its prob ok because it gonna happen.
We could substitute the name of any domesticated animal to these good husbandry practices. And ourselves.

For thos who cant choose fish and need aPBT or those who understand actual QT and its use in good hubandru, qt your fish(horse cow puppy pig), get it wormed and get rid of the fleas before it goes out to play with the rest of the tan, flock herd family.
Thats been my impression reading this stuff for the last 6 years or so. Or did everyone else just miss that and not read the whole page again.
Most books I read said DONT buy a PBT cuz it'll have give and bring Ick so don't buy one. Suggesting one cuz its pretty or others like it with the same malaise is much more cruel IMO.

 

[Daniel Strickland]

Thanks Paul, I have enjoyed reading your thread... Growing up on a farm taught me how much you can learn listening to the guys that have been doing (insert most anything here) already for decades.. the experience gained from years and years can seldom be replaced with technology..

As a new reefer I have often found a lot of conflicting information.. i.e. 6 week QT's and 9 week fallow if you discover ick.. as opposed to LFS, "just put them in the tank"... was very refreshing to read your nice middle of the road success story..

I have already started looking into blackworms, unfortunately here in the middle of nowhere Kansas such things are not as easy to come by as going to a local LFS.. I am going to order some from the internet and give your methods a try tho. Although with a nice QT period first..

Any pro tips on corals?? Do you dip them? Brief QT?? Or just throw them in??

Thanks again and keep this thread going!!

Oh and P.S. thank you for your service to our country!!

 

[laga77]

That actually IS what he's saying. Clean your tank, feed your pets well.


The impression I always I got was, keep your animals pen clean and healthy and you wont have to freak out if you get fleas. If you have fleas once in awhile its prob ok because it gonna happen.
We could substitute the name of any domesticated animal to these good husbandry practices. And ourselves.

For thos who cant choose fish and need aPBT or those who understand actual QT and its use in good hubandru, qt your fish(horse cow puppy pig), get it wormed and get rid of the fleas before it goes out to play with the rest of the tan, flock herd family.
Thats been my impression reading this stuff for the last 6 years or so. Or did everyone else just miss that and not read the whole page again.
Most books I read said DONT buy a PBT cuz it'll have give and bring Ick so don't buy one. Suggesting one cuz its pretty or others like it with the same malaise is much more cruel IMO.

For quarantine to work, it needs to 100%. Removing 99.99% of parasites or pathogens is useless and no QT procedure is 100%. Since there are no tests for QT practices or procedures determine when the parasites have been removed, is it not better to maintain disease resistant fish instead of trying to keep fish in a sterile environment? It wasn't the steel weapons that the Conquistadors had, it was the smallpox and measles that they carried that wiped out the Incas and Mayans.

 

[Daniel Strickland]

Just re-read your op... need to rephrase from nice QT to brief observation and acclimation period first..

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

no QT procedure is 100%.

then we agree on someting.

 

[mcarroll]

Paul B.,
Perhaps this would help.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/10340974?q

Regards,
Don
MARINE WORLD

A little more Googling, just for posterity....this gives a downloadable copy of the full book:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1696396/

Haven't looked at the book yet though.

No. Misleading title.

Next.

After time intensive research I am able to say: I know what's a reverse under gravel filter. Seems not to be common in germany, i didn't found more than 1 shop (well-known shop) selling supplies.
Unfortunately I only found descriptions from how to put in the tank, what you need (waterpump or airstone) but I have no idea why this is working and where the heck does all the water go?
Anyone here with a link, please?
*looking with big brown eyes around, like a small puppy*

Can you find a Hagen 402 / Aqua Clear 50 for sale? Same powerhead, but they changed the name for some reason. It's the easiest way to do reverse flow.

 

[chema]

Thank you Paul for this great post, I am a fan
There is something I am thinking of. In sea you will not find any blackworm. Why is blackworm bacteria the best food for sea fishes? What do they have in common?
Another thought: Is every blackworm fine? I am living in germany, in the middle of nowhere, I will not get fresh clams except of Mytilus edulis in the month with an "r" in it. In all other months i have blackworms in my garden ^^
Do you cut the blackworms? Maybe a silly question but I observe my fishes and I could see, that all of them like other particles of food. It depends on size. Samson is looking for big pieces, De, Li and La look for small pieces and Indie, Jack & Jill for middle size. So I am doing my own food from frozen clams, shrimps and so on und I cut and mix it in different sizes.
Shen and Rai are taking the powder like rest when it fells on the ground and doesn't move - Mandarins.
So do I have to cut the blackworm in different sizes too or are they so fantastic for them, that they will snap it either way? Really, I don't want to cut worms. I like them.

Hi Aliyanna. It's not easy to find black worms (Lumbriculus variegatus) here in Europe. I found them in a British shop specialized in stuff for science teaching, although I have not ordered yet. They ship to the rest of Europe (or at least they did besides the British decided it would be better to keep away from continental Europe ). However, with this freezing temperatures it is no the best season of the year for that kind of shipments.

I would be happy to send you a ton of Mytilus edulis from the Galicia coast so you could treat yourself, and also the fish, of course, but I'm not sure they would survive the trip. I feed my fish chopped M. edulis 2-3 times per week. A good alternative to the fresh ones are the ones that come already boiled in brine solution closed in a vacuum sealed bag. At least in Spain is easy to find them.

Happy reefing

 

[Aliyanna]

Thanks mcarroll, I will have a look.

It's funny, really. In germany today every aquarist I know is going with bare bottom or only a handful of gravel. Every time I tell, that I am driving a deep sand bed, people are calling me a silly goose. Noone had heard from an under gravel filter - seems I ask the wrong people.

Hi Aliyanna. It's not easy to find black worms (Lumbriculus variegatus) here in Europe. I found them in a British shop specialized in stuff for science teaching, although I have not ordered yet. They ship to the rest of Europe (or at least they did besides the British decided it would be better to keep away from continental Europe ). However, with this freezing temperatures it is no the best season of the year for that kind of shipments.

I would be happy to send you a ton of Mytilus edulis from the Galicia coast so you could treat yourself, and also the fish, of course, but I'm not sure they would survive the trip. I feed my fish chopped M. edulis 2-3 times per week. A good alternative to the fresh ones are the ones that come already boiled in brine solution closed in a vacuum sealed bag. At least in Spain is easy to find them.

Happy reefing

Ah maybe I come back to you in spring Thx a lot

 

[Paul B]

Daniel, I started a thread here 7 years ago if you are interested. It has undergravel filters, Supermodels, airplanes, Bora Bora and some of it is about fish. https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-birthday-40-years.55423/

I have never dipped a coral in anything and never had a problem.
Sorry about that "Nowhere Kansas Thing" I have never been there. I need an ocean close enough that I can smell it.

It wasn't the steel weapons that the Conquistadors had, it was the smallpox and measles that they carried that wiped out the Incas and Mayans.

Laga, I don't know about that. I climbed those Mayan pyramids when I was in my 20s and I think those people all died of heart attacks. I don't understand the need to build all these very high things when you have an entire country which was nothing but forest. Whats wrong with living on the ground! Maybe build a Mall or ice skating rink.
I would imagine after they were tired of sacrificing people up there, they carried Supermodels there to sweep up and to clean up and maybe dance. But I am speculating.

This goes along with this thread. The Inca's died from those diseases because they were isolated from them, or "Quarantined" . The Spaniards had Smallpox in Spain along with every other disease. Millions of Europeans died from diseases but the ones that survived did so because they had built up an immunity. The main reason anyone on this planet is still alive especially after the Plague or Black Death is because of built up immunity. Now isn't that special!

Oh and P.S. thank you for your service to our country!!

Thank you as that means a lot to me. I am very proud of my military experience.

 

[jason2459]

PaulB has been a big influence on my tanks. One of the things I love and would always try and implement is a RUGF. I started with a 55g with no sump and ran it right in the tank

That allowed me to home a very actively breeding pair of mandarins with several other pod eating wrasses for many years . What ever else a RUGF may do the most important thing to me is the huge amounts life it helps to promote.

I have since lost those mandarins due to a rock slide in a move. I was crushed...well they were...

For many more years I have ran a RUGF plate in my sump. I just upgraded to a 75g sump thanks to petco's $1/gallon sale that actually included 75g tanks. One of the main design considerations was the RUGF. With the area I created I was able to get a bigger plate then I had in my previous 40g breeder sump (also bought with petco's $1/g sale ha!). I bought a lees aquatics 70/90 that comes with two plates (16"x 22.5" each). This way in 40 years when I look under it and accidentally crack it I have a spare. [emoji1]

I'm using an Aquaclear 50 in reverse to feed it. I also wanted to try some matrix/pumice stone and got 4L of the pond Matrix. Some of it floats so have them in some bags soaking on top of the plate until they stop floating and will cover the plate.

Thank you as always Paul for your service and for sharing your experiences!

My new 75g sump layout

 

[Paul B]

Jason, That's amazing. I didn't think anyone else used a RUGF. Don't tell anyone or they will all have tanks with no problems and no one wants that.

 

[Kershaw]

I have been talking to a friend about building a rugf for over a year now. Even posted a thread about my idea but it was shot down.

Also I have been keeping black worms in fridge in a water bottle but they only seem to last a few days. I only put enough water to cover them. Any ideas how I can keep them alive longer.

 

[Kershaw]

Also I don't know if you covered it. How often do you do water changes?

 

[jason2459]

Yes, using a RUGF is just a silly thing to do and everyone will tell you that. They have all told me its a nitrate factory and will crash the tank. I've had phosphate issues in the past but not once have I ever had a nitrate issue. And really what is a nitrate issue? Nitrates are not a problem. Everything requires nitrogen of some kind to live. If you are over run with algae and nitrates are really high then maybe look at bringing the nitrates down to eliminate that as a potential cause.

My nitrates are usually around undetectable to 5mg/l. PaulB I'm sure can chime in with much much higher nitrates but they are not causing a problem.

 

[Paul B]

Kershaw. I am going to write a blackworm article for Reef2Reef but I don't have time yet, but I did write this. http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/feeding-blackworms-healthy-marine-fish-whiteworms-3124/
I change water about 4 or 5 times a year, when I have time. I have no schedule.
You will always get shot down about one thing or another as the vast majority of hobbiests still think inside the box.
You will hear that nutrients cause algae, yet my nitrates are 160, no algae.
You will hear that not quarantining will kill all your fish, yet some of mine are 25 years old.
You will hear you have to acclimate for a couple of hours, That ain't happening.
You will hear that the vast majority of Supermodels will not date me. Well. that's certainly true.
Genesis 22.16/47 says Do notith, believith all that thou reads ith, as much of it is Horseith Poopith.

 

[Kershaw]

I'm moving soon. So I am excited to have a chance to add a rugf to my system. I think I will have to make because my tanks foot print is 48x30. Also I seen some one ask what type of gravel you use. But I didn't see a response. I have 3 wrasses that like to hide in sand. What are you thoughts on that?