How to Quarantine

[dwair]

Tank Transfer Method

 

[merlberg]

oh ok thanks lol I've heard of tht before.

 

[Triggerpuller]

I want to tell you this thread reinforces my drive make sure I setup a good QT. I recently lost 4 out of 5 of my oldest fish to trying to manage Ich. I setup a new tank with old rock from someone else's system. I should have QT the live rock but thought I was lucky or better than others. This started my battle with Ich....again... Once I moved my fish into my new MT the battle began... I lost a fish I had for over 3 years... luckly my remaining fish is a O. Niger and he is by far the healthiest fish I have ever owned (5 years old) I believe that is the only reason he beat the ICH. I was close to giving up. If that fish would of died I would of given up on my FOWLR. Now I have been reading your posts on QT and treatment and my vigor to have a successful tank has been restored. Thank you.

 

[Humblefish]

Triggerpuller It warms my heart when I can help motivate someone to do what's right by our finned friends. :wink: If you need any advice setting up your QT, just post to this thread or feel free to start your own thread if you like. We'll help you anyway we can. :bigsmile:

I'm sorry to hear you lost most of your fish to ich. :sad: If the Niger has not already been treated, I suggest he be the first fish you QT and treat for ich. You will also have to go fallow (fishless) in your DT for 72 days, but after that (and after the Niger has been treated) you will have a "clean slate" moving forward in your DT. Below are a couple of articles I've written you may want to read:

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-diagnosis/188770-understanding-ich.html

[URL]https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-diagnosis/191226-how-treat-ich.html
[/URL]

 

[Triggerpuller]

I actually had already used your article to formulate my plan going forward. I plan on fallowing my tank and putting all future fish in my QT. I followed your QT article to setup mine. I will make a new thread as I have a few questions. Thank you.

 

[Trailermann]

Yes, I have the same question. What is TTM? Merlberg did not get an answer over the last month? Is there a better avenue to learning the answer? I am dying to find a simple plan I can adopt as I move forward in this hobby. There is so much emphasis on chemical treatments, but apparently, the odds of bringing ICH into my aquarium are low and I would rather not initially plan on using medication unless there are indications I need to do so. Even then, I want to separate my hospital tank from my quarantine tank. If problems arise, I will move the livestock to the hospital tank and leave the QT fallow for appropriate period. Does that make sense?

 

[Trailermann]

Darn, just saw the TTM response for Merlberg. My apologies. Just so many posts I get confused.

 

[Humblefish]

Darn, just saw the TTM response for Merlberg. My apologies. Just so many posts I get confused.

More detailed info below, if you need it:

Tank Transfer Method: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) only.

How To Treat - Tank transfer (TTM) is probably one of the most underused and underappreciated resources in our hobby. To properly execute TTM you need two tanks (or buckets), with dedicated equipment for each tank (not to be shared between the two). I personally use 2 of the 10 gallon tanks to do TTM, each with its own heater, thermometer, air stone, airline tubing and PVC elbows for hiding places. This is how TTM is implemented:

• Day 1 - Fish is placed in initial QT.
• Day 4 - Roughly 72 hours later transfer the fish to new tank. The time of day you do the transfer is unimportant, but never exceed 72 hours from the last transfer. The temperature and SG of the new tank should match the old one perfectly, so you can just catch & release (no acclimation). Transfer as little water as possible with the fish.
• Day 7 - Repeat.
• Day 10 - Repeat.
• Day 13 - Repeat and done (fish should now be ich free).

After transferring, immediately sanitize the “old tank” and all equipment using bleach or vinegar. Rinse well. Let air dry thoroughly before next use. The air drying is the sterilization process when using vinegar, or detoxification process when using bleach.

Simply put, this process works because you are literally outrunning the parasite’s known life cycle. If a fish is infected with ich, trophonts will leave the fish at some point during the TTM process, and the encysted stage doesn’t have enough time to release theronts (i.e. free swimmers that re-infect the fish) before the fish exits the tank. Ammonia isn’t much of a concern with TTM, because every 3 days the fish is placed in a new tank with new water; or you always have the option of using ammonia reducers, such as Amquel or Prime, in conjunction with TTM since there is no risk of negative interaction because no medications are present. However, you do have the option of dosing Prazipro (if you need to deworm) at the onset of “Day 4” and “Day 10”; transfers 2 & 4 respectively. Just remember if you do this that you can’t use any ammonia reducers while Prazi is present in the water.

One of the cons to tank transfer is the amount/cost of saltwater needed to do it. For example, using my 2-10 gallons I go through 50 gallons of saltwater before the TTM process is complete. However, a thrifty hobbyist can use water stored from a recent display tank water change to implement TTM. Obviously, this only works if you are 100% confident that your display tank is disease free and don’t siphon anything off the bottom. ;-) The other problem with TTM is netting the fish every 3 days. That concern can be somewhat alleviated by using a plastic colander in lieu of a net to catch the fish (square ones work better than round ones):

Pros - Chemical free solution to ich, highly effective when performed properly, can be combined with deworming via Prazipro.

Cons/Side Effects - Cost (if using all new saltwater), time/effort expended, probably somewhat stressful on the fish being caught every 3 days.

 

[merlberg]

So when using this method, day 7 when you transfer back to the 1st qt, is the water that was in it prior suppose to be fully changed to new saltwater before putting the fish in there or do you just let it run.

And the same question goes for day 10, and as you keep switching between tanks, do you change the entire qt water before putting the fish in or once the fish is out the tank for 3 days it is ok to put the fish back in?

Not sure if you understand the way I'm asking but I hope you do lol. Sry if its confusing lol.

 

[Humblefish]

merlberg All new water each & every time you transfer the fish. So after each transfer, dump out all the "old water" and immediately sanitize the “old tank” & all equipment using bleach or vinegar. Rinse well. Let air dry thoroughly before next use. The air drying is the sterilization process when using vinegar, or detoxification process when using bleach.

If you are 100% confident that your display tank is disease free, then you can use water stored from a recent DT water change to do the transfers. This will save a lot of $$$ on salt.

 

[merlberg]

Ahh ok ... Thank you.

Is it just me because this process seems like the most work lol. I guess if all else fails I will try this method since I couldn't get a hold of the cp powder.

I ordered it online from eBay [emoji85] but who knows if it's the real thing or not!

 

[Humblefish]

Is it just me because this process seems like the most work lol. I guess if all else fails I will try this method since I couldn't get a hold of the cp powder.

It is more work. It's also not a good option for those with hectic busy lives, as the fish must be transferred every 72 hrs or less. However, once you get the hang of it, TTM gets easier/takes less time as you become more efficient at it.

I ordered it online from eBay [emoji85] but who knows if it's the real thing or not!

I have read of many failures using CP from an ebay source. Caveat emptor.

 

[merlberg]

Yea. Seems like it's def not for ones with crazy schedules.

Dag that sucks ughh I guess that was a waste of money but good think I started off small becaus I was sketchy.. Thanks for letting me knw

 

[merlberg]

This might sound silly but how in the world do I clean up a sand less QT?
I tried to clean up waste n excess food w/ a net but didn't do such a good job.

 

[Humblefish]

This might sound silly but how in the world do I clean up a sand less QT?
I tried to clean up waste n excess food w/ a net but didn't do such a good job.

Siphon off the bottom. You can use airline tubing to target small debris without wasting/losing a lot of water. A brine shrimp net also works well for scooping up uneaten food & fish poop.

 

[merlberg]

Thanks

 

[LukeV]

Do you recommend using the Chloriquine phosphate or just stick with prazipro and cupramin. Will the Chloriquine phosphate only treat ick or parasites too?

 

[Humblefish]

Do you recommend using the Chloriquine phosphate or just stick with prazipro and cupramin. Will the Chloriquine phosphate only treat ick or parasites too?

Chloroquine phosphate does the same as Cupramine (treats ich, velvet), but also treats brook & uronema (Cupramine does not treat those two.) However, you can safely mix Prazipro with Cupramine... but not with Chloroquine phosphate. Nothing's perfect... there are always pros & cons.

 

[Humblefish]

Generally speaking, Chloroquine is gentler on the fish and has less side effects. The one exception to this seems to be wrasses. IME; it is risky treating wrasses with CP.

 

[LukeV]

Generally speaking, Chloroquine is gentler on the fish and has less side effects. The one exception to this seems to be wrasses. IME; it is risky treating wrasses with CP.

what about tangs? Would a cp treatment be less stressful then the copper treatment? Also would you say it's better to g bigger for a QT or stick with a 40 breeder?