How to Quarantine

[jenreefer]

I've done the yellow coris in copper with no problems. The leopards are a little more sensitive, but it should be able to be done. Personally, I would wait it out unless they stop eating all together. You can always spend a week after the copper is done to fatten them back up.

Funny, the yellow coris is the one out eating everyone else's food, so you are spot on there. The leopard is the only one that is not eating at all, but at least has started coming out of the sand for an hour each day. I may have to move him over to the CP tank, but since I have time and they are not showing any signs of Velvet, I think I will dilute it out a bit and see if he won't start eating. no sand in the other QT. I can try to bring it back up in a few days after he starts eating. Bluestar eats a bit, but not with enthusiasm. thanks for the input.

 

[Humblefish]

Funny, the yellow coris is the one out eating everyone else's food, so you are spot on there. The leopard is the only one that is not eating at all, but at least has started coming out of the sand for an hour each day. I may have to move him over to the CP tank, but since I have time and they are not showing any signs of Velvet, I think I will dilute it out a bit and see if he won't start eating. no sand in the other QT. I can try to bring it back up in a few days after he starts eating. Bluestar eats a bit, but not with enthusiasm. thanks for the input.

You may need to do a WC to lower the copper level, let the fish eat hardy for a few days, and then slowly ramp the copper back up. I advise not using CP on any wrasse, anthias or Hippo Tang until more research is done.

 

[jenreefer]

You may need to do a WC to lower the copper level, let the fish eat hardy for a few days, and then slowly ramp the copper back up. I advise not using CP on any wrasse, anthias or Hippo Tang until more research is done.

Thanks for the input. Appreciated. I only used it on the Naoko because by the time I caught him he was significantly affected and I figured I only had hours to turn it around before he died. So took the chance. I have to say, he never blinked and never stopped eating. I know it is only one case, but chalk it up as a success so far. He has been in it for a week and no adverse effects and no evidence of Velvet at this point. All lesions are gone.

 

[VJV]

+1 Any fish theoretically can develop immunity (or resistance) to almost any disease, including ich & velvet. However, thick mucous coat species (exs. wrasse, mandarin) have an advantage over a thin slime coat fish (exs. Acanthurus Tang, gramma) for this purpose.

While many hobbyists see this as a reason not to QT, what they fail to see is they are actually introducing a "Typhoid Mary" into their system. A fish which never shows symptoms of disease but still serves as a carrier, capable of infecting (and killing) other fish.

Thanks. But exactly what does "immunity" mean? Does it mean that no parasite will actually be able to attach? Or does it mean that the parasites do attach but the fish is "ok" with it? Or does it mean that only a very few are able to attach, and not enough to bother the fish...?

If it is one of the latter two given the lifecycle of the parasite and the enclosed nature of a QT to me is difficult to see how the fish could remain in that tank for an extended period without at some point being overwhelmed by the shear numbers... again, just a thought, not scientific in any way.

 

[mcarroll]

If it is one of the latter two given the lifecycle of the parasite and the enclosed nature of a QT to me is difficult to see how the fish could remain in that tank for an extended period without at some point being overwhelmed by the shear numbers... again, just a thought, not scientific in any way.

If you can find any examples of tanks with old fish, then I hope you agree that immunity must be true, whatever it means. Because your logic is correct: No immunity = no fish.

Check these out:

• Innate immunity of fish (overview)
• Immunological Control of Fish Diseases

 

[Brew12]

Thanks. But exactly what does "immunity" mean? Does it mean that no parasite will actually be able to attach? Or does it mean that the parasites do attach but the fish is "ok" with it? Or does it mean that only a very few are able to attach, and not enough to bother the fish...?

If it is one of the latter two given the lifecycle of the parasite and the enclosed nature of a QT to me is difficult to see how the fish could remain in that tank for an extended period without at some point being overwhelmed by the shear numbers... again, just a thought, not scientific in any way.

Typically, when we discus immunity in regards to ich, we are only looking at a small aspect of the fish immune system. The most common resistance the fish builds up prevents the parasite from feeding effectively. This limits the damage done to the fish and reduces the amount of new parasites that hatch each generation. This is why if you add a new, non ich carrying fish, it can wipe the entire tank. The new fish provides a great food source for the parasite allowing it to rapidly increase in numbers. This can not only overwhelm the new fish, but can also be more than the "immune" fish can handle.

 

[TC3]

Is it okay to quarantine chromis, dartfish/firefish, gobies, and blennies using Copper Safe or should I somehow acquire CP and go with that route? And how long do I need to quarantine the above fish if using CP? Is it the same amount of time for dragonets as well?

 

[Humblefish]

Typically, when we discus immunity in regards to ich, we are only looking at a small aspect of the fish immune system. The most common resistance the fish builds up prevents the parasite from feeding effectively. This limits the damage done to the fish and reduces the amount of new parasites that hatch each generation. This is why if you add a new, non ich carrying fish, it can wipe the entire tank. The new fish provides a great food source for the parasite allowing it to rapidly increase in numbers. This can not only overwhelm the new fish, but can also be more than the "immune" fish can handle.

+1 When a fish is infected with ich, velvet, etc. one of two things is going to happen: The fish will get overwhelmed by the attacking trophonts & die OR the fish will survive the onslaught and slowly start building up resistance. The particulars on how it all works are open for debate. What makes the most sense to me is the fish's immune system will release a "serum" into the mucous coat which forces the trophonts to drop off the fish prematurely. Or possibly prevents attachment altogether and/or kills the trophont.

Rabbitfish serum, for example, has been proven effective against Marine Ich. However, the kill rate was still not 100% in this study, meaning the parasite lives on in the host's affected aquarium: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1050464810000197

 

[Humblefish]

Is it okay to quarantine chromis, dartfish/firefish, gobies, and blennies using Copper Safe or should I somehow acquire CP and go with that route? And how long do I need to quarantine the above fish if using CP? Is it the same amount of time for dragonets as well?

The others will be fine in copper (or CP); however I would use CP only on chromis & dragonets. The former are prone to Uronema marinum (which copper DOES NOT treat), while the latter typically do not survive long in copper treated water.

 

[TC3]

Thanks, this will help me decide the set of fish that I will be purchasing now and later on.

I read that recommened treatment of CP is 10 days. Is that correct?

 

[melypr1985]

Thanks, this will help me decide the set of fish that I will be purchasing now and later on.

I read that recommened treatment of CP is 10 days. Is that correct?

30 days

 

[Humblefish]

30 days

+1 Or 2 weeks if you can transfer the fish to a non-medicated holding tank at least 10 feet away.

 

[VJV]

Here is my beautiful Regal in QT [emoji5]. He has been there for 3 weeks, went through 2 doses of Prazi and is eating Pellets like a Pig [emoji847].

 

[Humblefish]

@VJV He's beautiful!

 

[TJFitz1980]

Fast question. Is it wise to set up a QT and leave it set up permanently running?

 

[melypr1985]

Fast question. Is it wise to set up a QT and leave it set up permanently running?

It's been done many times. You would have to be able to break it down for sterilization if something like a lingering bacterial infection was in there or Uronema - things like that. But you certainly can leave a QT up and running.

 

[Humblefish]

Fast question. Is it wise to set up a QT and leave it set up permanently running?

Yes & no; eventually enough heterotrophic bacteria will culture in a long-term QT to biodegrade most medications. So at some point you would need to either break the QT down, or disinfect it periodically (to kill most of the bacteria) by dosing 3 ppm chlorine bleach.

This is something I'm still doing research on, but I am sure of the above points.

 

[TJFitz1980]

Reason I ask i thought one of my 2 penguin filters stopped working...so I went out and bought a fluval aquaclear to replace it. Well of course the impeller just needed cleaning...so I was think it might be wise to set up a QT to getting it going for when ever I purchase another fish. Didn't want the bio wheel to dry up and lose all the beneficial bacteria

 

[TC3]

Ugh! My DT has relapse of ich and my Yellow Eyed Kole tang is now infected (or he infected the tank). I don't know what I did wrong. I guess I will start over but now, I will have two QTs, a 10g and a 29g running at the same time for the next 11 weeks. I was trying my best to mix equipment and sanitized everything with vinegar.

 

[Humblefish]

Ugh! My DT has relapse of ich and my Yellow Eyed Kole tang is now infected (or he infected the tank). I don't know what I did wrong. I guess I will start over but now, I will have two QTs, a 10g and a 29g running at the same time for the next 11 weeks. I was trying my best to mix equipment and sanitized everything with vinegar.