ICH sadly

[Zachy Yonk]

Thanks guys my friend brought up a question and I honestly don't know the answer. I know overdosing the fish with copper is bad but in the case where the fish don't have ich and it was juse a mistake what would happen if I treated them with copper. My fish do have ich I know for a fact but I figured it would have the same outcome as overdosing on copper.

 

[melypr1985]

Thanks guys my friend brought up a question and I honestly don't know the answer. I know overdosing the fish with copper is bad but in the case where the fish don't have ich and it was juse a mistake what would happen if I treated them with copper. My fish do have ich I know for a fact but I figured it would have the same outcome as overdosing on copper.

Assuming the fish isn't copper sensitive (eels, mandarins, ect) then nothing would happen. You would then be absolutely sure they are ich/velvet free. I prophylactically treat fish with copper every day. I feel it's necessary these days with Velvet being so prevalent in the hobby and with wholesaler's.

 

[Zachy Yonk]

Assuming the fish isn't copper sensitive (eels, mandarins, ect) then nothing would happen. You would then be absolutely sure they are ich/velvet free. I prophylactically treat fish with copper every day. I feel it's necessary these days with Velvet being so prevalent in the hobby and with wholesaler's.

Ah alright I would treat my fish with copper but the issue is I have inverts, snails, sea slug, sea cucumber, shrimp, live rock, anemones in my tank and they would all die. Is there something that I could use to prevent it that isn't copper. Let's say I moved my fish back into my DT to make sure it doesn't come back what would I do? And thank you for all your time and help last time I went through this I gave up since I didn't feel like anything was working but this time I don't wanna lose the fish. They cost a lot haha

 

[domination2580]

Ah alright I would treat my fish with copper but the issue is I have inverts, snails, sea slug, sea cucumber, shrimp, live rock, anemones in my tank and they would all die. Is there something that I could use to prevent it that isn't copper. Let's say I moved my fish back into my DT to make sure it doesn't come back what would I do? And thank you for all your time and help last time I went through this I gave up since I didn't feel like anything was working but this time I don't wanna lose the fish. They cost a lot haha

If the fish are strong enough you can give them a relief by doing a freshwater dip. Then continue doing copper. But if you already started doing the copper I would stick with it a MINIMUM of 30 days. There really isn't anything you can do to keep the dt clean except qt everything that goes into the tank. Ich amd velvet have to host of fish to survive and I believe flukes as well, so the 30 days is the time needed to make sure the life cycles of the disease goes through completely killing the disease.

 

[Zachy Yonk]

If the fish are strong enough you can give them a relief by doing a freshwater dip. Then continue doing copper. But if you already started doing the copper I would stick with it a MINIMUM of 30 days. There really isn't anything you can do to keep the dt clean except qt everything that goes into the tank. Ich amd velvet have to host of fish to survive and I believe flukes as well, so the 30 days is the time needed to make sure the life cycles of the disease goes through completely killing the disease.

Ah alright makes sense if it's 30 days I can live without my hippo tang and dogfave puffer out of my tank for that long. As long as they live haha

 

[melypr1985]

If the fish are strong enough you can give them a relief by doing a freshwater dip. Then continue doing copper. But if you already started doing the copper I would stick with it a MINIMUM of 30 days. There really isn't anything you can do to keep the dt clean except qt everything that goes into the tank. Ich amd velvet have to host of fish to survive and I believe flukes as well, so the 30 days is the time needed to make sure the life cycles of the disease goes through completely killing the disease.

I agree except that you would want to go fallow in the display for 76 days to rid the display of ick, velvet and flukes. So the fish are in QT, and copper is already in there right @Zachy Yonk ? Keep the fish in QT for the full 30 days. Never put copper in the display.

 

[Diesel]

If the fish are strong enough you can give them a relief by doing a freshwater dip. Then continue doing copper. But if you already started doing the copper I would stick with it a MINIMUM of 30 days. There really isn't anything you can do to keep the dt clean except qt everything that goes into the tank. Ich amd velvet have to host of fish to survive and I believe flukes as well, so the 30 days is the time needed to make sure the life cycles of the disease goes through completely killing the disease.

Wanna add to that, is once the DT is fish free we call that fallow, you got to keep it like that for at least 76 days and If I'm not mistake they raise the duration up to 80 or 82 days.

 

[melypr1985]

Wanna add to that, is once the DT is fish free we call that fallow, you got to keep it like that for at least 76 days and If I'm not mistake they raise the duration up to 80 or 82 days.

No need to raise the temp at all, but it is done by some. You are on point sir

 

[Zachy Yonk]

No need to raise the temp at all, but it is done by some. You are on point sir

Alright thanks what if I don't have a tank big enough to hold the fish in my 55 I don't have another 55. I know my display tank is clean for a fact. I took all the precautions for my dt

 

[Diesel]

No need to raise the temp at all, but it is done by some. You are on point sir

It's getting late for you young lady........... wasn't talking about temps but yeah what do I know about all the deceases we have experts for that like you

 

[Zachy Yonk]

It's getting late for you young lady........... wasn't talking about temps but yeah what do I know about all the deceases we have experts for that like you

I'm going to guess that you guys are affiliated somehow haha it just seems like you know each other. I could be wrong though.

 

[melypr1985]

Alright thanks what if I don't have a tank big enough to hold the fish in my 55 I don't have another 55. I know my display tank is clean for a fact. I took all the precautions for my dt

Well it depends on the amount of fish and their sizes and even what types. What precautions did you take to ensure your display is ich free? Were these two fish you mentioned that have ick ever in your display?

It's getting late for you young lady........... wasn't talking about temps but yeah what do I know about all the deceases we have experts for that like you

LOL!!!! You got me!! Wow I'm tired. I'm going to bed ya'll before I start translating the words on the screen into something REALLY crazy!

 

[Diesel]

LOL!!!! You got me!! Wow I'm tired. I'm going to bed ya'll before I start translating the words on the screen into something REALLY crazy!

and we all know how that will turn out, lol!

 

[Zachy Yonk]

Well it depends on the amount of fish and their sizes and even what types. What precautions did you take to ensure your display is ich free? Were these two fish you mentioned that have ick ever in your display?



LOL!!!! You got me!! Wow I'm tired. I'm going to bed ya'll before I start translating the words on the screen into something REALLY crazy!

Haha alright night thanks for the help, and I checked all my levels and every fish I put in there. I only had a snowflake eel at the time and no the fish I have in my qt where never in my display tank. And all the other fish I have in there now seem to be doing fine with no issues. But this can continue nighta

 

[mcarroll]

How big each are the Hippo and Dogface?

How big is the QT+hospital tank you're using? What's the setup like?

What are you feeding them?

 

[mcarroll]

Thanks guys my friend brought up a question and I honestly don't know the answer. I know overdosing the fish with copper is bad but in the case where the fish don't have ich and it was juse a mistake what would happen if I treated them with copper. My fish do have ich I know for a fact but I figured it would have the same outcome as overdosing on copper.

I'm not sure you meant to say overdose or if you meant "treating a hypothetical/unidentified pathogen rather than one that's been positively ID'd", but everyone overlooked the word overdose....so just in case:

Overdosing copper IS BAD. (Overdose = more than the suggested dosage.)

A couple of guides from University of Florida's aquaculture section:

From FA165/FA165: Use of Copper in Marine Aquaculture and Aquarium ... (which is a really good read, all things considered):

"In general, larger aquaculture facilities and public aquaria [and the more discerning Reef2Reefer -- Ed] prefer to use copper sulfate rather than chelated copper complexes, because strength and activity of chelated copper complexes are more uncertain, and chelated copper compounds are also more difficult to remove."

"Copper will damage a number of organs and systems, including the gills, liver, kidney, immune system, and nervous system (Cardeilhac and Whitaker 1988). Gills appear to be the most affected organ during acute toxicity, and will become blunt and thickened and lose ability to regulate body fluid ion concentrations. Copper also suppresses immune system function, and can affect the lateral line of fish. Prolonged copper exposure also may result in reduced growth (Wong et al. 1999)."​

The guide mostly focuses on copper sulfate, but I think I saw you're using a chelated copper....they do discuss this a bit. I haven't seen any indication that chelated is better or safer....maybe the opposite.

There's also a guide for Ich:

FA164/FA164: Cryptocaryon irritans Infections (Marine White Spot ...
I would be wary of trying to predict the lifecycle of Crypto...
"The length of the entire life cycle varies, depending upon a number of factors, including strain of Cryptocaryon, temperature, salinity, and fish host (Colorni 1985; Diggles and Lester 1996a, b, c; Colorni and Burgess 1997; Yambot et al. 2003). Even for a specific strain and fish host, the life cycle may vary by weeks or months (Colorni and Burgess 1997). An average life cycle appears to be 1 to 2 weeks; however, life cycle durations may range from 6 days to 11 weeks, primarily because of the unpredictability of tomont development (Colorni and Burgess 1997; Dickerson 2006; Yambot 2003).

In addition, some characteristics of the different life cycle stages (e.g., size and time required for development) vary depending upon the strain of Cryptocaryon irritans, the salinity and temperature of the water, and the species of fish infected (Diggles and Lester 1996 a, b, c)."

"A more recent study demonstrated that two life stages of one strain of Cryptocaryon (trophonts, i.e., the feeding stage during which the parasite can be found on the fish, and tomonts) survived dormant for 4–5 months at 12°C (53.6°F), and, after the water temperature increased to 27°C (80.6°F), developed and infected fish (Dan et al. 2009)."​

I recommend reading as many of U. of Fla's guides as you can.

 

[Brew12]

My hippo tang still isn't eating, and it doesn't look like he is getting any better. I have had him in there for 3 days yesterday he was swimming,

You have gotten some good advice. I just want to remind you that copper doesn't treat the immediate ich infection. The ich that was on him prior to adding copper will continue to feed on the fish and grow. What it will do is kill the next generation of ich from being able to survive and feed on the fish. You can expect to see improvement of the fish in 3 to 7 days from starting copper. Just stay the course with the recommended dosing.

 

[domination2580]

I agree except that you would want to go fallow in the display for 76 days to rid the display of ick, velvet and flukes. So the fish are in QT, and copper is already in there right @Zachy Yonk ? Keep the fish in QT for the full 30 days. Never put copper in the display.

Yes that is correct. I did not male myself clear on the fallow period. I must have missed it. I thought the OP was just talking about qt

 

[Zachy Yonk]

Thank you for all your help the hippo tang, and dogface puffer aren't that big. I would say the hippo tang is maybe 4-5 inches long, and the dogface is more like 3-4. The hippo tang did take a bite out of the flakes today. That is all i have in terms of food. If there is anything else that I should try feeding them I will try it out if anyone has recommendations. Thanks again.

 

[domination2580]

Thank you for all your help the hippo tang, and dogface puffer aren't that big. I would say the hippo tang is maybe 4-5 inches long, and the dogface is more like 3-4. The hippo tang did take a bite out of the flakes today. That is all i have in terms of food. If there is anything else that I should try feeding them I will try it out if anyone has recommendations. Thanks again.

Frozen food....rods food, lrs...