Impossible phosphate issue

[Hans24hrs]

No doubt you could use lanthanum or similar chemical and achieve a low or even zero phos reading. My question is why are trying so hard? What's your goal? What problem are you attempting to solve?

Can't keep any corals besides a few shrooms and a hammer. Last about 2k in corals from it. Would like to get back to keeping more than fish lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The problem with the SPS isn't the phosphate, although I do not know what it is.

1 ppm phosphate can lead to a fine sps tank if other conditions are appropriate.

 

[Hans24hrs]

Not sure what it would be. All the other parameters are good. It's very frustrating. Flow is good (4 MP40's, 1 mp60) and lighting is great (3 250w radiums, 2 radions and 2 60 inch blue reefbrites). I keep as much as I can automated for stability.
I am using redsea coral pro (1.026).

I appriciate all the inut from everyone. Any other input is greatly appreciated

 

[McMullen]

That's a big loss in coral! Was this over months, weeks, or days?

How long has tank been running?

What kind of coral did you lose?

I too have lost thousands in coral learning, but never softies, LPS, and Sps collectively.

 

[Hans24hrs]

It was over a couple of months. I think part of it was trying to aggressive to keep the phosphates levels down. They were over a 2.0 at one point. Most was sps, with some LPS. Very frustrating.

 

[Hans24hrs]

At the time the tank was up for over a year.

 

[McMullen]

Did you actually lose all coral? And cannot currently keep any alive?

 

[GoVols]

@Hans24hrs
Did your corals go fast with faded bleaching look?

 

[Hans24hrs]

Last everything bit some chalices and shrooms. Can't keep sps right now

 

[Hans-Werner]

I wanted to mention that it is much easier to loose SPS from unbalanced low phosphates or attempts to bring phosphate down than from high phosphates but you already know it. If you can´t bring it down just ignore it like Randy recommended.
What are the other parameters like KH, Nitrate etc.?

 

[rlman41299]

any chance you know what your nitrate level is at?

 

[GoVols]

I wanted to mention that it is much easier to loose SPS from unbalanced low phosphates or attempts to bring phosphate down than from high phosphates but you already know it. If you can´t bring it down just ignore it like Randy recommended.
What are the other parameters like KH, Nitrate etc.?

+1

 

[Hans24hrs]

It had been holding at the same level for a little bit. I tried adding a digi the other day and it looks like it isn't going to make it. Going to wait a while before adding anymore spa

 

[Hans24hrs]

Quick update. I had a calcium reactor running without the co2. I left it running figuring that there was a decent amount of media and it was more added surface space for biological bacteria. I shut it down. Also I started using red Sea nope. It was recommended by a friend who had success with it. Phosphate dropped from 0.18 to 0.12 in 4 days. Not sure which one had the larger affect on the drop but I'm happy.

On a side note I am using a hannah egg to test phosphates. I know it is slightly off in reading. I did full spectrum of tests the same time I sent out triton test. At that time hannah had phosphates at 0.27 triton had it at 0.18. Not sure how to guage the current readings

 

[GoVols]

Glad your seeing drop. Bring it down slow so you don't shock corals.

Do you mean RS NOPOX. It's good stuff.., Test for nitrates with NOPOX too. It can take them to zero and we don't want zero.

I just texted my water tonight.
Nitrates holding at 4ppm (Salifert kit) that's good for me.
Phos at .o15 ppm - (Hanna Phosphorus ULR checker) too low for my liking. I want to be at .03 - .05.
May adjust GFO reactor flow and reduce media.

I don't know how to answer your side note either.
Using those Hanna checkers. I believe they are accurate but you really have to keep the vials clean. I got a friend who keeps them soaking in fresh RODI water. I use vinegar.

I know some people that use your Phosphate checker and my Phosphorus ULR checker at the same time as a crosscheck.

The Hanna ULR phosphorus checker measures current phosphate and what will turn into phosphate in the water column in ppb.
If your ever buy it I have the math formula or a cheat sheet to convert phosphorus ppb to Phosphate ppm.

Thanks for the update and keep us posted

 

[Hans-Werner]

That triton finds lower phosphate than the Hanna checker is strange since triton measures the emission of a hot plasma and in this way measures total phosphorus while a wet chemical quick test only can show up reactive phosphate without organic phosphates and polyphosphates. Adding organic carbon may just hide some of the phosphates for the checker because it increases the bacterial activity which may result in a higher proportion of polyphosphates (storage polyphosphates are typical for some bacteria) and organic phosphates.

I also wonder how the Hanna ULR phosphorus checker can measure total phosphate without breaking down polyphosphates and organic phosphates. To check for total phosphates (or "total phosphorus") you usually need a time and energy consuming decomposition step with acid and strong oxidizing agents, heat and time or pressure. I guess the total phosphorus of the Hanna checker is just an estimation that will or will not reflect the real concentration of total phosphorus.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I also wonder how the Hanna ULR phosphorus checker can measure total phosphate without breaking down polyphosphates and organic phosphates. To check for total phosphates (or "total phosphorus") you usually need a time and energy consuming decomposition step with acid and strong oxidizing agents, heat and time or pressure. I guess the total phosphorus of the Hanna checker is just an estimation that will or will not reflect the real concentration of total phosphorus.

It doesn't. It is just inorganic phosphate. Phosphorus is a misleading marketing distinction from their other phosphate checker which uses the same chemistry.

 

[Hans-Werner]

Thanks for clarifying, Randy.

 

[GoVols]

@Randy Holmes-Farley @Hans-Werner

Finally. You two are on the same thought on a thread. That's a good thing

Question...
So are you guys saying that the Hanna Phosphous ulr checker is not accurate at all? (As in, don't use it)

Or is it just not any more accurate than the regular Hanna Phosphate checker

Thanks, GoVols

 

[Scott.h]

Are you running it in a bag or are you pushing it through a reactor? I've had really good luck with Kent phosphate sponge. I leave that in there for about three days. It's will pretty much suck every bit of phosphate out of the tank. Then I dump that and switch over the regular GFO. But through a reactor. Big difference in performance. Once you get everything under control by means of appropriate skimming, proper amount of macroalgae, good flow through the rock work, and carbon dosing, Ive found that I only have to use a small amount of GFO, and only replace it every several months. That was coming from phosphates levels way higher than what you are seeing and nitrates somewhere around 50.

Is there detritus built up somewhere? Behind the rocks? In the corners of the sump?