Lots of Corals dying - Alkalinity and Calcium use has nearly stopped.

[Steve Ruddy]

My daily Alkalinity and Calcium draw used to be about 80ml of B-Ionic A and B. Now it's only 25ml and all sps growth has stopped. I have had major RTN of SPS and bleaching plus tissue release on some LPS. The tank is 75 gallons and I have lost at least 20 corals already. At least I haven't lost any clams and I still see nice new white shell edge. It could be to early to tell if they have stopped growing yet. I have never experienced anything like this in the nearly 30 years I have been keeping Reef Aquariums. The B-Ionic addition is as low as it was when the tank was new with few to no corals.

 

[mtnrunner]

What are your parameters?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Are you using tap water?

 

[pirate2876]

Did you change salt mix? Calibrate your hydrometer?

 

[Steve Ruddy]

What are your parameters?

Within last 30 days
Alkalinity 8.5-10.3
Calcium 380-445
Magnesium 1500
Phosphate 0
Nitrate 0

Are you using tap water?

No I'm using RO treated well water. I just changed my prefilters today.

Did you change salt mix? Calibrate your hydrometer?

Well yes and no I have always used Instant Ocean but when I started this tank about 2 years ago I switched to Reef Crystals I'm thinking of going back to IO or trying Brightwell. I think the RC is too high in several things especially magnesium.

 

[Nano sapiens]

Temperature? A couple degress can make a big difference to growth (either too high about the accepted range, or too low).

Too low PO4 is a common issue these days, largely thanks to excessive use of GFO and such...didn't have that problem 30+ years ago You may not have enough phosphate, either inorganic or organic, and the corals may be showing signs of starvation.

One option is to send a water sample to Triton to see if anything is grossly out-of-whack.

 

[Steve Ruddy]

Temperature? A couple degress can make a big difference to growth (either too high about the accepted range, or too low).

Too low PO4 is a common issue these days, largely thanks to excessive use of GFO and such...didn't have that problem 30+ years ago You may not have enough phosphate, either inorganic or organic, and the corals may be showing signs of starvation.

One option is to send a water sample to Triton to see if anything is grossly out-of-whack.

I never used to use GFO however on this tank I started using it. I do have spots of hair algae so some nutrients must be in place. My clams had all been purchased at 1.5" and all are still alive and some are close to 3"

Oh temp is set at 78 and fluctuates +- 3/4 of a degree. I did have a slight issue with temp for a day and it went from 76-80. I also had a failing ph probe that made my doser cut off however my limits still stayed in range because I test for ALK and CA a few times a week or everyday if there is a fluctuation.

 

[Nano sapiens]

I never used to use GFO however on this tank I started using it. I do have spots of hair algae so some nutrients must be in place. My clams had all been purchased at 1.5" and all are still alive and some are close to 3"

Oh temp is set at 78 and fluctuates +- 3/4 of a degree. I did have a slight issue with temp for a day and it went from 76-80. I also had a failing ph probe that made my doser cut off however my limits still stayed in range because I test for ALK and CA a few times a week or everyday if there is a fluctuation.

Hair algae exists on even the most pristine reef with extremely low NO3 and PO4 (herbivors keep it in check).

I'm not a giant clam expert, but I do know that they are strongly photosynthetic. I would think that they would have larger energy reserves than most corals due to the thick tissue and might not show starvation symptoms as soon as corals. Not sure how sensitive they are to heavy metals and such.

Triton can tell you both organic and inorganic phosphate levels. Some people with similar tank symptoms have reported '0' (or very near zero) Triton test results . Of course you could have some type of heavy metal contamination, which would also be picked up in the test.

 

[twilliard]

I second the triton ICP

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No I'm using RO treated well water. I just changed my prefilters today.

Ro only, or RO/DI? If the TDs zero ppm?

 

[Steve Ruddy]

Ro only, or RO/DI? If the TDs zero ppm?

RO only, I usually change the prefilters if the TDS gets above 8. I hadn't changed them for a year this time and they were looking very dirty like clay coated. With the new filters it's running at 1. Maybe I'll do some water changes with this cleaner water. I usually don't do many water changes and only do about 2.5 gallons at a time when I do.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

RO only, I usually change the prefilters if the TDS gets above 8. I hadn't changed them for a year this time and they were looking very dirty like clay coated. With the new filters it's running at 1. Maybe I'll do some water changes with this cleaner water. I usually don't do many water changes and only do about 2.5 gallons at a time when I do.

I'd suggest it is possible that toxic metals might be an issue. Do you have an analysis of the well water?

 

[Steve Ruddy]

I'd suggest it is possible that toxic metals might be an issue. Do you have an analysis of the well water?

I maybe in denial as I hadn't considered that at all. I'll have it tested. In the meantime I have put the poly filter pad and carbon that I always have used back in the system. For awhile there I was under the assumption, as someone above has mentioned that I was starving the tank. Removal of all the filter media definitely didn't help at all and the problem actually seemed to get worse. I'm sticking with the filter media for now and will just feed more.

FWIW several of my Acropora sp. that didn't seem affected, as the tips were still white with new growth, suddenly lost the white tips overnight and the next night started stn. This is very depressing!

 

[griff500]

Doesn't it seem like quite high alkalinity (with quite a range) for what appears to be a ULNS system?

 

[Elementalj]

I maybe in denial as I hadn't considered that at all. I'll have it tested. In the meantime I have put the poly filter pad and carbon that I always have used back in the system. For awhile there I was under the assumption, as someone above has mentioned that I was starving the tank. Removal of all the filter media definitely didn't help at all and the problem actually seemed to get worse. I'm sticking with the filter media for now and will just feed more.

FWIW several of my Acropora sp. that didn't seem affected, as the tips were still white with new growth, suddenly lost the white tips overnight and the next night started stn. This is very depressing!

Got a copper test kit?

 

[aaron23]

Pics of the tank may help us find a solution

 

[drawman]

To me the mostly likely culprits as previously mentioned are poor quality RO water and/or Alkalinity. It would be nice to get that TDS from 1 to 0 I would invest in a DI addition going forward. A poly filter and large water changes may help get out whatever impurity/metal could be in the system as others have mentioned.

You listed a range of 8.5 to 10.3 for alkalinity. I assume this means that you keep it at 8.5 and it increased to 10.3 when your consumption crashed? Sounds like the poor water made them mad, reducing consumption, and higher alkalinity is exacerbating the STN if I were to guess. Low nutrients and an alkalinity upswing can be a lightning rod when acros are used to a lower alkalinity.

 

[Frop]

Within last 30 days
Alkalinity 8.5-10.3
Calcium 380-445
Magnesium 1500
Phosphate 0
Nitrate 0

High alk with low neutrients can't that cause an issue?

 

[Macdaddynick1]

Do you get burnt tips and STN then RTN on the SPS ? Because I've been struggling with this and I also live in cali. Since they use chloramine's to treat the water, you'll need special filters, to effectively remove it from the water. Also check your PH if it's below 7.7 some corals when unhealthy get stressed even more.

 

[Steve Ruddy]

I have went back to my normal low nutrient way of running my tank. After putting poly filter pads, and carbon back in the situation has slowed a lot, but not stopped. Since then I have had complete polyp bail out on a prized Scolymia sp. and some tip burn on several Acropora sp. as well as rtn on a few more. I also have put new pre filters on my RO filter and just purchased a MaxCap® 2:1 Manual Flush 90-GPD RO/DI System - MC-RODI-90-10-MF.

I'd suggest it is possible that toxic metals might be an issue. Do you have an analysis of the well water?

Not for many years, then it was mainly for bacteria. What tests do you recommend? I have called the local lab and a toxic metal panel is nearly $400. Individual tests average around $35. I can get new reagents for my LaMotte Iron and Copper test kits.

Doesn't it seem like quite high alkalinity (with quite a range) for what appears to be a ULNS system?

I haven't had any issues with it at the level for the last 35 years. The only difference in my method is the lighting. I have always used MH and VHO combinations for my tanks. Now it's LED which has been a challenge learning how to program them. Maybe with the new lighting type alkalinity needs to be ran lower?

Got a copper test kit?

Yes new reagents on order.

To me the mostly likely culprits as previously mentioned are poor quality RO water and/or Alkalinity. It would be nice to get that TDS from 1 to 0 I would invest in a DI addition going forward. A poly filter and large water changes may help get out whatever impurity/metal could be in the system as others have mentioned.

You listed a range of 8.5 to 10.3 for alkalinity. I assume this means that you keep it at 8.5 and it increased to 10.3 when your consumption crashed? Sounds like the poor water made them mad, reducing consumption, and higher alkalinity is exacerbating the STN if I were to guess. Low nutrients and an alkalinity upswing can be a lightning rod when acros are used to a lower alkalinity.

Have been doing as you mentioned and it is working to a degree. I put in two poly filters instead of the usual one. Made a big difference in my glass cleaning schedule! Won't have the new RO/DI unit for about a week. The rise in alkalinity happened when the part two of my B-Ionic additions took a dive due to a doser issue. Then when the corals quit using it the level rose again and I struggled for awhile getting it back down. FWIW I have ran it higher than that in the past with no issues.

Do you get burnt tips and STN then RTN on the SPS ? Because I've been struggling with this and I also live in cali. Since they use chloramine's to treat the water, you'll need special filters, to effectively remove it from the water. Also check your PH if it's below 7.7 some corals when unhealthy get stressed even more.

Yes but I'm using well water.


With the exception of Tubipora reniformis and maybe my zoanthids this Blue Ridge Coral , Heliopora coerulea, is the only coral in my tank that hasn't stopped growing. It apparently likes iron. I have had it for 35 years and pieces of it have been in the most abused tanks imaginable. I have never lost any of it.

The Acropora sp. in this image just started having issues. I thought it was going to be fine. I have had this Turbinaria reniformis about 35 years as well. This is the last piece I have and it doesn't look like it's going to make it.