Lots of Corals dying - Alkalinity and Calcium use has nearly stopped.

biom

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All symptoms of nutrient deficiency, been there many times, before to realize that 00 nutrients is only reason for TN of my corals. I prefer to have some algae and cyano here and there but my corals to be happy and growing. My advice is to stop GFO and start feeding more, it is good idea to dose some aminos or coral food if you have in hand, and never allow nitrates to go under 1 ppm and phosphates under .03ppm .
 

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All symptoms of nutrient deficiency, been there many times, before to realize that 00 nutrients is only reason for TN of my corals. I prefer to have some algae and cyano here and there but my corals to be happy and growing. My advice is to stop GFO and start feeding more, it is good idea to dose some aminos or coral food if you have in hand, and never allow nitrates to go under 1 ppm and phosphates under .03ppm .
Agreed, feed more and incorporate coral food, amino acids.
 
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Steve Ruddy

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All symptoms of nutrient deficiency, been there many times, before to realize that 00 nutrients is only reason for TN of my corals. I prefer to have some algae and cyano here and there but my corals to be happy and growing. My advice is to stop GFO and start feeding more, it is good idea to dose some aminos or coral food if you have in hand, and never allow nitrates to go under 1 ppm and phosphates under .03ppm .

Agreed, feed more and incorporate coral food, amino acids.

I'm having a hard time with that diagnosis. Even though my test kits are saying zero. I have plenty of visible hair and other types of algae. My algae eaters are quite a few in type and numbers as well. I know If I add a bunch more I can get rid of it however the point is that if there are enough nutrients for hair algae there should enough for corals. I do feed dried plankton and other small coral foods. I have decided not to use anymore GFO anymore unless the phosphate becomes an issue. I also have experimented with using a DOC and amino acid supplement. To recap I think I mentioned earlier the only difference from between this system and all my others is the lighting. This actually isn't true as I had never used GFO, or any coral foods before. I guess the GFO could be responsible for disrupting the balance of available nutrients if there is such a thing?

Here is an article about coral nutrition written by a friend of mine
 

biom

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... however the point is that if there are enough nutrients for hair algae there should enough for corals...

Not really necessary, actually the algae are capable to take up nutrients leached from substrate (rocks, sand etc.), not allowing in that manner nutrients to reach water column. Another nutrient source for algae is the detritus trapped in their dense canopy.

Corals, especially SPS and their zooxantellae rely only on dissolved or suspended in water column nutrients, because they have no physical or functional contact with substrate, and prefer strong current thus not allowing detritus to settle down on its surface.

Usage of GFO in such situation will strip out all available phosphates and silicates from water column but not from substrate, leading to starvation of corals, but not really affecting the algae. In contrary quite often because of total lack of phosphates and silicates in the water column substrate starts leaching more phosphates to trying to recover equilibrium, but there is algae canopy between substrate and water, serving as "phosphate filter trap".

That is why is possible (and it is quite common, especially in the early stages of maturation of a reef tank) to have starving corals and in the same time bloom of algae at zero nutrients.

Why LPS corals seems to be less affected? Because they are less dependent on photosynthesis and more of their energy is coming from food, in the same time some of them are close (or lie on) to the substratum and could take nutrients and large particles of detritus directly from it.

This is why it is reported liquid carbon dosing helps against algae. Because of adding organic carbon the bacteria receive an advantage over the algae, and starts competing them quite successfully for the place (and nutrients) on substrate surface. But because bacteria are loosely attached to the substratum, when they grow too much water current is washing them out from the substrate suspending them it to water column, from where they end up as coral food or are skimmed out. In that manner most of the nutrient leaching from rocks and/or sand are transferred into coral food and/or skimmate, but not as algae biomass.

And would like to add something from my experience, I'm using need of glass cleaning as an quite accurate monitor for biological processes in my tank, if i need to clean glass in about three days, everything is ok in my tank from biological point of view, but if there is excessive growth and I need to clean the glass every other day or every day, that means there are to much nutrients in water column, worse situation is if there is almost no growth on glass for more than three days, that always means that something very wrong is happening (for example nutrients are missing or alk/pH/ temp is wrong). The color of glass mat is also good indicator, if it is whitish -yellow- light brown is ok, if it is dark brown is not ok, means there is to much silica and phosphate in the water, if it is bright green means to much nitrates and phosphates present, if it is pure white - to much carbon is added.

Really sorry for the loss of corals, I know how depressing it could be, but I'm sure with your experience and friends like Dana Riddle you will overcome this situation very soon.
 

pedro

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My daily Alkalinity and Calcium draw used to be about 80ml of B-Ionic A and B. Now it's only 25ml and all sps growth has stopped. I have had major RTN of SPS and bleaching plus tissue release on some LPS. The tank is 75 gallons and I have lost at least 20 corals already. At least I haven't lost any clams and I still see nice new white shell edge. It could be to early to tell if they have stopped growing yet. I have never experienced anything like this in the nearly 30 years I have been keeping Reef Aquariums. The B-Ionic addition is as low as it was when the tank was new with few to no corals.


Good night Sir. Steve Ruddy
My name is Pedro and I'm from Portugal.
I would like to know if you have been able to find out the cause of the problem with corals and if you have found a solution
Because I am exactly with the same problem in my aquarium
Thank you and your help would be welcome.
greetings
 
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Steve Ruddy

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Good night Sir. Steve Ruddy
My name is Pedro and I'm from Portugal.
I would like to know if you have been able to find out the cause of the problem with corals and if you have found a solution
Because I am exactly with the same problem in my aquarium
Thank you and your help would be welcome.
greetings

Pedro,

Yes The situation has been resolved. It turns out it was a contaminant or inbalance. I had removed all my chemical filter media and fed the tank a bit more but this had zero effect on the corals health, and it just created an algae bloom. So I did the opposite and replaced the Carbon, and Poly Filter Pads (twice the normal amount). At the same time I replaced my RO unit with an RO/DI unit and started 4 gallon water changes every day for about a week. Ver quickly it was obvious that things were getting better. Calcification has now returned. Before, cutting off dead tips did nothing, now the cuts are healing over fast. I wish I had a more definitive answer. I'm leaning toward Randy's suggestion of bad source water as I don't see any pumps or equipment that could be poisoning the tank. I don't know what the offending element was but I plan on finding out more about my well water soon. I have been using it with the RO unit for 15 years but well water can and does change.

Biom,

I like your glass cleaning analogy. I use that as a guide myself.

Steve
 
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Steve Ruddy

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Update!! Tank is crashing again. The recovery only lasted for about a week. It crashed again when I went to normal maintenance without daily water changes. The source water has been eliminated as a contributing factor. I purchased my first RO/DI unit ever, to replace my RO unit. It is producing pure water according to the TDS meter. I remember experimenting with resins post RO in the late 1980's but abandoned the process as the resins depleted too quickly and were expensive. Since then I have only installed RO units and never looked back. Well now I'm going to be changing my old ways of doing things including running my sps tank with little or no water changes. So now I'm certain my problem is related to some type of chemical in balance. I sent water samples to Triton Labs today and will continue to do 4 gallon water changes daily until I get the results back. I will keep you all posted.
 

pedro

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hello
sorry for mi english
i have the samme problem and i send a sumple of water to ATI for analise and the results its fine
the water of mi tank its fine
in mi ideia its a bacteria problem
now i dose bacterias and vinegar for try combat the bad bacterias
good luck
 
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Steve Ruddy

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hello
sorry for mi english
i have the samme problem and i send a sumple of water to ATI for analise and the results its fine
the water of mi tank its fine
in mi ideia its a bacteria problem
now i dose bacterias and vinegar for try combat the bad bacterias
good luck

I assume no luck for you yet? What exactly are you adding? Keep me posted.
 
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Steve Ruddy

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Hey Steve, what kind of algae do you have?

No exactly sure of the species, see photos. It didn't start until about a month after the start of the crash. I started feeding much more and took out all chemical filter media for awhile Shouldn't have done that as now it's not so easy to get rid of and it's most likely exasperating my problem.

159A0947.jpg


159A0948.jpg


159A0953.jpg
 

Rick.45cal

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I'm not 100% positive on the ID. I would start with that, those are good pics they should make for easy ID for someone familiar with that algae.

Have you read the fluconazole thread tacked at the top of the Reef forum? It's eliminated bryopsis, GHA and some other green algaes. (Largely the ones that nothing likes to eat). It would be wise to at least consider the option. It doesn't harm any corals, invertibrates or higher order animals.

Your algae is compounding your problems. You need to get rid of it, otherwise you are in a nutrient catch 22. If fluconazole works the algae will either just turn white from the tips down and disappear, or it will suddenly become tasty to your clean up crew and they will eat it before it can die. Either way it won't come back.

Having free microalgae in the display robs all the nutrients available to your corals from the water column. Even their structure traps particulates (such as coral food) allowing a localized build up of nutrients for the algae to use. This is why in ULNS you see bryopsis and other invasive algaes typically only in very high light high flow areas, (IMO).

The catch of the whole thing is your corals need all that stuff too, so we gotta get rid of your algae, then your job will become much easier. :)
 

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I had something similar. What I noticed with mine was my alk was really low. Most likely a swing because I went on vacation and didnt have a doser. When I came back I slowly brought it up and the coral started to do really well. I didnt learn my lesson and never got a doser or paid attention to alk consumption. Big drop in alk again and finished off my corals. The second crash might be from swings, might not be. That was just my experience. Good luck.
 

pedro

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I assume no luck for you yet? What exactly are you adding? Keep me posted.
Hello
MY TANK HAS 250LT (it's a FRAG tank)
What did I do:
I started on February 12
1st day I cut all dead parts and did 1 water change of 40%
Daily swing is usually between 7.8-8.2. I would like the high to be 8.4 but haven't see those types of numbers since I quit using Metal Halide lamps and kalkwasser.

2nd day I added 1 ampoule of BIODIGEST (Salifert)
On the 3rd day I started to add 15 ml of a carbon source and 10 mg of sodium ascorbate every day and 1 drop of PRO CORAL IODINE (TROPICAL MARINE CENTER)
4th day I added 2 drops of ZeoBak
7th day I added 1 ampoule of BIOPTIN (Salifert)
8th day I changed 10% of water
10th day I added 2 drops of ZeoBak

POINT OF THE SITUATION
I did not have any bacteria boom.
I have an idea that the deaths stopped
Corals are gaining color again


RECEIPT FOR CARBON SOURCE
1,5 Lt WATER OSMOSE
15ml VINEGAR
15 mg of SUGAR

IT IS FREE TO FOLLOW THIS PROCESS OR NOT ....
RESPONSIBILITY WILL ALWAYS BE FOLLOWED ...

GOOD LUCK
 

pedro

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I assume no luck for you yet? What exactly are you adding? Keep me posted.
Hello
MY TANK HAS 250LT (it's a FRAG tank)
What did I do:
I started on February 12
1st day I cut all dead parts and did 1 water change of 40%
2nd day I added 1 ampoule of BIODIGEST (Salifert)
On the 3rd day I started to add 15 ml of a carbon source and 10 mg of sodium ascorbate every day and 1 drop of PRO CORAL IODINE (TROPICAL MARINE CENTER)
4th day I added 2 drops of ZeoBak
7th day I added 1 ampoule of BIOPTIN (Salifert)
8th day I changed 10% of water
10th day I added 2 drops of ZeoBak

POINT OF THE SITUATION
I did not have any bacteria boom.
I have an idea that the deaths stopped
Corals are gaining color again


RECEIPT FOR CARBON SOURCE
1,5 Lt WATER OSMOSE
15ml VINEGAR
15 mg of SUGAR

IT IS FREE TO FOLLOW THIS PROCESS OR NOT ....
RESPONSIBILITY WILL ALWAYS BE FOLLOWED ...

GOOD LUCK
 
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Steve Ruddy

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Thanks Pedro, How did you come up with this procedure? I know nothing of these products your using but will check them out, I tried Elos Pro Skimmer 4 drops daily and Omega 17 drops daily. I didn't see any improvement and while I was doing this I took out all my chemical filter media and started feeding more.. I then developed an algae problem that still persists.
 

pedro

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Thanks Pedro, How did you come up with this procedure? I know nothing of these products your using but will check them out, I tried Elos Pro Skimmer 4 drops daily and Omega 17 drops daily. I didn't see any improvement and while I was doing this I took out all my chemical filter media and started feeding more.. I then developed an algae problem that still persists.
Hello Steve
I think the problem is not a lack of food but a bacteriological infection
Sorry I was wrong about Biodigest
I started treatment on 12/2
I leave below rectified

Prodibio BIO DIGEST http://www.marinedepot.com/Prodibio...a_Supplements-Prodibio-PD01112-FIADBS-vi.html
Prodibio BIOPTIM http://www.marinedepot.com/Prodibio...a_Supplements-Prodibio-PD02423-FIADBS-vi.html
ZEObak Microorganism Solution - Korallen-Zucht http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/korallen-zucht-zeobak-microorganism-solution.html
Tropic Marin Pro Coral Iodine 50ml https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/1b3/Tropic-Marin-Pro-Coral-Iodine-50ml/B000WDYGF0
Sodium Ascorbate http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sodium-Asco...351689?hash=item35c4e113c9:g:pqcAAOSwY45UPDtI

GOOD LUCK
 
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