Male Watanabe Angel in QT with issues...Please Help

[Gabaghoul]

My male Watanabe Angel has been in my QT for almost 5 weeks now. The first week was observation to make sure he was eating and ramp up to adequate copper levels. He's been in Coppersafe for the about 3 weeks and during that time I applied to 2 doses of PraziPro one week apart. He's been eating great for most of that time until last week at which time he started spitting out the food. He also looked like he was having trouble swimming, instead of his more graceful movements thru the water, he looked like he was kind of bouncing along. Last night, I took him out and did a Formalin-MS dip with the recommended dosage and also did a water change on the tank.

Today, he looks like he still has the swimming issues previously observed. Any thoughts on what I can do at this point? I'd hate to lose him, especially when trying to do the right thing and quarantine.

BTW, in the tank I have 4 other fish, all which are doing amazing, one of which is the female Watanabe, a Sailfin tang, a Magnificent Foxface and a Lieutenant Tang.

Thanks
John

 

[melypr1985]

Can you set up another tank or even a bucket with no medications at all in it? I"m thinking the first thing to do is check if it's copper sensitivity. Place him in a non-medicated tank for a while and see if he perks up for you.

 

[Preme]

Can you set up another tank or even a bucket with no medications at all in it? I"m thinking the first thing to do is check if it's copper sensitivity. Place him in a non-medicated tank for a while and see if he perks up for you.

+1!

 

[Gabaghoul]

I can do the bucket.

 

[Humblefish]

Can you set up another tank or even a bucket with no medications at all in it? I"m thinking the first thing to do is check if it's copper sensitivity. Place him in a non-medicated tank for a while and see if he perks up for you.

+2 What the OP is describing sounds like classic copper intolerance to me.

The fact that the female Watanabei seems fine is just further evidence that copper intolerance is sometimes more of an individual thing, rather than lumping all of one genus (or even species) into the same basket when it comes to copper use.

 

[sc50964]

How big is your tank and how big are the tangs and the angels? Does he have problem staying afloat?

 

[Gabaghoul]

Tank is 60 gallons total. Its a 50 gallon cube. The Lieutenant is in an acclimation box. He's about 32.5 - 3". The sailfin is about 2.5" tall. The female Wat is 3". The Foxface is about 3.5".

The male Wat is able to swim and stay afloat, just swimming awkwardly - as I said, not as graceful as he was.

He is now in a bucket with clean water and a pretty powerful airstone. Is there anything else I should do for him? Is there a chance he pulls thru? Has anyone had specific experience with a fish with copper sensitivity in this state pulling thru? He looks fat but he has definitely eating. Interested but not eating.

I should also mention, he was in QT 1 week longer than she was.

 

[Humblefish]

I think what @sc50964 may be alluding to is a possible problem with his swim bladder. Watanabeis are deep water angels that are not always properly decompressed before being brought to the surface. Are you seeing a bulge (gas bubble) near his swim bladder area?

 

[Gabaghoul]

I dont think I see a bulge. But would it really appear after 5 weeks . I would think that would happen within a couple of weeks of decompression but I dont really know. Is there a treatment for that if that were the case?

 

[Humblefish]

I dont think I see a bulge. But would it really appear after 5 weeks . I would think that would happen within a couple of weeks of decompression but I dont really know. Is there a treatment for that if that were the case?

Unfortunately, I've seen it take months before the gas bubble is large enough to be noticeable. If one does appear, this is the only way I know of handling it: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/venting-a-swim-bladder-black-cap-basslet.219954/

 

[sc50964]

The tank is not long enough and just too small volume wise for these fish. The male watanabei is more sensitive of the bunch. Even if he recovers from whatever he has now, this tank can't be a long term solution. Male watanabei are also known to reverse back to female or sub male form when it's not the dominate fish. Your female may help but it typically needs more than one female and room to swim to establish dominance. If it's not swimming bladder, then I think being stressed is one contributor to whatever that he has. Suggest to remove the tangs.

 

[Gabaghoul]

Sorry, I thought you were asking about my QT. My display is a 300 gallon Reef Savvy (6' x 3' x 25"H) with a total volume of 420 gallons.

 

[Gabaghoul]

If it were Copper "poisoning" is there a chance of survival? And if so, what might be the best approach?

 

[sc50964]

Sorry, I thought you were asking about my QT. My display is a 300 gallon Reef Savvy (6' x 3' x 25"H) with a total volume of 420 gallons.

But still tho, 50 gallon cube (about 2'x2'x2') is still a lot for 2 tangs, 1 foxfish , 2 angels. The male watanabei is the most expensive and rare of all the fish you got. So you may want to set up another QT for others to have the best chance for the male watanabei.

 

[sc50964]

If it were Copper "poisoning" is there a chance of survival? And if so, what might be the best approach?

Remove copper right away and change water. There is a chance of survival.

 

[Gabaghoul]

Thanks for all the advice. Let us pray.

 

[Humblefish]

If it were Copper "poisoning" is there a chance of survival? And if so, what might be the best approach?

I agree with @sc50964; all you can do (for right now) is remove him from copper and see if that by itself will reverse the condition.

 

[Sharvey103]

+1 what Humblfish says

 

[Gabaghoul]

Decent news. He started eating a bit today. Definitely still not swimming as he should yet but hoping he may be on his way to recovery. I have him alone in the 50 gallon cube after a 100% water change and the addition of a PolyFilter to remove whatever copper may still be in there. Hoping that these fish are resilient enough to come back from a "copper punch."

 

[sc50964]

It's a deep water fish so dimmed lighting is the most appropriate at the beginning.