Melanarus Wrasse TTM

[re76]

Hey everyone!

Just got a beautiful Melanarus wrasse on Monday that I am putting through TTM right now.

He is currently in a 10 gallon tank with a Tupperware container of sand and a PVC elbow. He took to the sand right away and hasn't come out since.

He hasn't eaten yet, because I can never catch him out of the sand when I come downstairs. From what I have read this sounds pretty normal for wrasses.

My question is: He is supposed to have transfer #1 happen tonight, but he is still in the sand. Should I get him out of the sand then do the transfer? Should I wait until he comes out on his own and just push back my TTM schedule?

What would you guys do? This is my first wrasse and I really don't want to cause him any more stress than is necessary.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Cment]

I usually wait to begin TTM until the fish has been eating for 2-3 days. It has stressed some of my wrasses out so this has helped. Ideally, you would like to do the transfer without the sand. I would wait until he's been out eating before starting TTM.

 

[re76]

That makes a lot of sense. I think I will start doing that as well. I will just leave him in the current tank until he seems to be comfortable, and eating properly, and then begin TTM at that point.

I was planning on using fresh sand and a new container for each transfer.

 

[jenreefer]

Hey everyone!

Just got a beautiful Melanarus wrasse on Monday that I am putting through TTM right now.

He is currently in a 10 gallon tank with a Tupperware container of sand and a PVC elbow. He took to the sand right away and hasn't come out since.

He hasn't eaten yet, because I can never catch him out of the sand when I come downstairs. From what I have read this sounds pretty normal for wrasses.

My question is: He is supposed to have transfer #1 happen tonight, but he is still in the sand. Should I get him out of the sand then do the transfer? Should I wait until he comes out on his own and just push back my TTM schedule?

What would you guys do? This is my first wrasse and I really don't want to cause him any more stress than is necessary.

Thanks in advance!

I completed TTM on one of these guys. It was tough and stressful.

Make sure she is eating and well acclimated to the observation tank before even thinking of starting this. She needs to be comfortable and happy. I feed/fed four times daily small amounts once out and eating to make sure I fattened her up long before even thinking of switching tanks. It also helps if both tanks are same size and shape so that she feels like she is in the same environment (I had two diff shaped tanks and it took a few days in each tank for her to be comfortable. I did four at one time and I think it helped with the comfort level to have same fish together)

Make sure to have a tight fitting lid on each tank, preferable different lids so you can dry them out between transfers. Also clean all pumps and equipment between transfers with either vinegar or bleach. I did not use any lights, just room lighting and it seemed to make the wrasse more comfortable.

I successfully TTM'd four wrasse, two of which were leopard types. It can be done.

Good luck

 

[re76]

I completed TTM on one of these guys. It was tough and stressful.

Make sure she is eating and well acclimated to the observation tank before even thinking of starting this. She needs to be comfortable and happy. I feed/fed four times daily small amounts once out and eating to make sure I fattened her up long before even thinking of switching tanks. It also helps if both tanks are same size and shape so that she feels like she is in the same environment (I had two diff shaped tanks and it took a few days in each tank for her to be comfortable. I did four at one time and I think it helped with the comfort level to have same fish together)

Make sure to have a tight fitting lid on each tank, preferable different lids so you can dry them out between transfers. Also clean all pumps and equipment between transfers with either vinegar or bleach. I did not use any lights, just room lighting and it seemed to make the wrasse more comfortable.

I successfully TTM'd four wrasse, two of which were leopard types. It can be done.

Good luck

Thanks for the response! When you did TTM did you put some sort of sand in the TTM tanks? When should I be concerned about him not coming out of the sand? I haven't see him come out for almost 24 hours now...

 

[jenreefer]

I did put sand in and then new sand in each new tank. they can stay in the sand for days, no worries. Add a tiny bit of frozen food in late morning. Sometimes they smell it and come out. I have heard of some staying hidden for weeks. Also remember she might be on a different day night schedule from her capture site. Give it time and try to leave her alone.

Mine are still out in early morning and to bed early.

 

[re76]

When you add the bit of froze do you just let it sit? Or do you leave it for a while then suck it out of it is uneaten?

 

[jenreefer]

When you add the bit of froze do you just let it sit? Or do you leave it for a while then suck it out of it is uneaten?

Either, I use hob filters with floss, so change it out almost daily to keep tank clean.

I feed heavy even in quarantine.

 

[cope413]

Seems like the TTM is for prophylactic reasons, yes? If so, why not just leave in QT for appropriate time and prevent the stress?

 

[re76]

Either, I use hob filters with floss, so change it out almost daily to keep tank clean.

I feed heavy even in quarantine.

Sounds like I need to step up my TTM game. I will have to look into getting some cheap HOB filters.

Seems like the TTM is for prophylactic reasons, yes? If so, why not just leave in QT for appropriate time and prevent the stress?

Yes I am trying really hard to stick to a strict QT protocol to prevent Ich. I find your proposition appealing, probably less stressful for me and the fish, but it sort of irks me that I could miss something during observation and let some sort of parasite into my DT.

 

[jenreefer]

Sounds like I need to step up my TTM game. I will have to look into getting some cheap HOB filters.


Yes I am trying really hard to stick to a strict QT protocol to prevent Ich. I find your proposition appealing, probably less stressful for me and the fish, but it sort of irks me that I could miss something during observation and let some sort of parasite into my DT.

Well, as I found out, even with TTM, you can still miss something. It is better than nothing though. always let the fish dictate what you do next. If you can get her eating and then accomplish TTM without harming or hurting her, then do it. If you find that she is not handling the moves well, then stop.

My rule is: eating well, active and normal sleep wake cycle, green light keep going. Eating less aggressively, hiding in sand more, yellow light, slow down. Not eating, staying in sand or both. red light. Stop what you are doing until they go back to green light.

 

[Humblefish]

Back when ich & flukes were the primary concerns, TTM (plus Prazipro) was king because it prophylactically addressed the two "hidden diseases" which plague our hobby. All you usually had to do was observe for 2 weeks post TTM and everything was golden.

However, times have changed and velvet is now running rampant. In 35+ years I've never seen anything like this, and I know @melypr1985 has seen an upswing in velvet at her LFS. What's even scarier is fish infected with these strains of velvet we are now encountering often show no obvious physical symptoms of disease. Therefore, those who choose not to use copper or Chloroquine phosphate as part of their QT regimen need to observe closely for these key behavioral symptoms of velvet:

• Reduced or complete loss of appetite.
• Heavy breathing, rubbing, flashing, head twitching, erratic swimming behavior (unfortunately velvet shares all these same symptoms with ich & gill flukes.)
• Swimming into the flow of a powerhead (unique to velvet).
• Acting reclusive (velvet causes fish to be sensitive to light).

 

[re76]

Back when ich & flukes were the primary concerns, TTM (plus Prazipro) was king because it prophylactically addressed the two "hidden diseases" which plague our hobby. All you usually had to do was observe for 2 weeks post TTM and everything was golden.

However, times have changed and velvet is now running rampant. In 35+ years I've never seen anything like this, and I know @melypr1985 has seen an upswing in velvet at her LFS. What's even scarier is fish infected with these strains of velvet we are now encountering often show no obvious physical symptoms of disease. Therefore, those who choose not to use copper or Chloroquine phosphate as part of their QT regimen need to observe closely for these key behavioral symptoms of velvet:

• Reduced or complete loss of appetite.
• Heavy breathing, rubbing, flashing, head twitching, erratic swimming behavior (unfortunately velvet shares all these same symptoms with ich & gill flukes.)
• Swimming into the flow of a powerhead (unique to velvet).
• Acting reclusive (velvet causes fish to be sensitive to light).

Thanks for the informative response. Would you recommend copper over TTM as the new standard? I don't have Chloroquine phosphate currently, but I do have Copper Safe and an API test kit. I thought I read before that Wrasse are copper sensitive.

 

[Humblefish]

Below is a video from @Reefahholic. In the video you will see a very agitated Powder Brown Tang with velvet. Even though he looks perfectly fine, you can see him swim right into the flow of that powerhead (0:40 mark) in an effort to dislodge some of the trophonts from his gills. If you watch closely he also twitches his head, scratches on the PVC and flashes (darts quickly through the water with sudden bursts of speed) - all behavioral symptoms of Marine Velvet Disease.

 

[jenreefer]

Back when ich & flukes were the primary concerns, TTM (plus Prazipro) was king because it prophylactically addressed the two "hidden diseases" which plague our hobby. All you usually had to do was observe for 2 weeks post TTM and everything was golden.

However, times have changed and velvet is now running rampant. In 35+ years I've never seen anything like this, and I know @melypr1985 has seen an upswing in velvet at her LFS. What's even scarier is fish infected with these strains of velvet we are now encountering often show no obvious physical symptoms of disease. Therefore, those who choose not to use copper or Chloroquine phosphate as part of their QT regimen need to observe closely for these key behavioral symptoms of velvet:

• Reduced or complete loss of appetite.
• Heavy breathing, rubbing, flashing, head twitching, erratic swimming behavior (unfortunately velvet shares all these same symptoms with ich & gill flukes.)
• Swimming into the flow of a powerhead (unique to velvet).
• Acting reclusive (velvet causes fish to be sensitive to light).

Could not agree more, especially with my recent experience with velvet. I feel like we need to go back to square one and re-assess everything we think we know about velvet. I also have been trying to decide(overthink is another translation) if our current practices have somehow caused the adaptation of the Velvet organism. It would not surprise me if this is the case. We have been getting better and better with our quarantine practices. Following tried and true methods. I think a retrospective study is in order here.

 

[jenreefer]

Thanks for the informative response. Would you recommend copper over TTM as the new standard? I don't have Chloroquine phosphate currently, but I do have Copper Safe and an API test kit. I thought I read before that Wrasse are copper sensitive.

I would not use copper unless you have to. The leopard wrasse do not do well with it in my very limited experience. I just about killed both of mine with it. never even got it to full strength. My vote is no.

 

[Humblefish]

Thanks for the informative response. Would you recommend copper over TTM as the new standard? I don't have Chloroquine phosphate currently, but I do have Copper Safe and an API test kit. I thought I read before that Wrasse are copper sensitive.

Until this velvet epidemic gets reined in at the wholesale level, I feel we have little choice but to treat every fish with either copper or CP. Unless you have 15-20 minutes every single day to observe your fish in QT and can take quick action if behavioral symptoms of velvet manifest.

Coppersafe + API test kit is my go-to for wrasses, anthias and other CP sensitive fish.

 

[jenreefer]

Until this velvet epidemic gets reined in at the wholesale level, I feel we have little choice but to treat every fish with either copper or CP. Unless you have 15-20 minutes every single day to observe your fish in QT and can take quick action if behavioral symptoms of velvet manifest.

Coppersafe + API test kit is my go-to for wrasses, anthias and other CP sensitive fish.

Valid concerns unfortunately.

 

[re76]

Until this velvet epidemic gets reined in at the wholesale level, I feel we have little choice but to treat every fish with either copper or CP. Unless you have 15-20 minutes every single day to observe your fish in QT and can take quick action if behavioral symptoms of velvet manifest.

Coppersafe + API test kit is my go-to for wrasses, anthias and other CP sensitive fish.

So assuming I can commit 15-20 minutes of observation everyday; Should I just move on with TTM after the fish is eating consistently? Or is it safe to do just two weeks of very thorough observations, along with two rounds of prazipro?

 

[Humblefish]

So assuming I can commit 15-20 minutes of observation everyday; Should I just move on with TTM after the fish is eating consistently? Or is it safe to do just two weeks of very thorough observations, along with two rounds of prazipro?

IMHO; if you can commit 15-20 minutes to observation every day then there is no need for prophylaxis medication whatsoever. It helps to be an attention-to-detail, observant person. Even if you can't pin down the exact disease, you will know something is off with the fish by it's unusual behavior. When this happens, be prepared to act quickly and be sure to have the necessary meds on hand: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/medications-to-keep-on-hand.213574/#post-2445601