Metal Halide - A fading technology?

lamzid · Sep 2, 2011

ronnie said:
Yet you are the first to truly take an issue - to heart apparently- over the thread.

I'm going to defer to the troll comment made earlier. I had hoped you would come off a bit less harsh once we cleared up that this wasn't a scientific study, but it appears that your high horse has you afraid to jump down.

Maybe I was the only one to take it to heart. Is that so bad? I see faulty reasoning creating a thread followed by biased cheerleading of the pros of one tech and constant negativity towards the cons of another. It's free for me to speak on it. It does not make me a troll.

As far as not getting off my high horse. I believed I was? Maybe it's your inability to comprehend me and then rudely say "what's your point". So I had to get me back on that pony. I'm fine and dandy if this is a peoples opinion thread. But much like politics and religion you weren't here to learn. Just crow why your future purchase and belief is the right one(for you).

lamzid · Sep 2, 2011

Anyway I will contribute my opinion of the techs as that is the topic at hand. For nano tanks and up to 75g I believe LEDs are going to be great and a HUGE succes. They'll most likely replace the smaller PC/T5 lighting fixtures used on those tanks. Due to the fact of less heat, less space, little to no bulb replacement(hopefully this remains true) and the cool shimmer they can provide(I'm a shimmer junkie

.

I think for the larger SPS dominated reefs and especially some of the deeper(width not height) tanks I forsee MH still being the best option available. Time will tell what LED can do and if they can provide fixtures that will compete with MH/MH+VHO/HO actinic supplementation. Most people running the larger tanks (200g+) aren't too concerned with power bills, bulb replacements or the upfront cost of a chiller. So I don't see the need to switch over to LED for any reason other than to "check it out". Because if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

I too am in the camp that LED only setups cannot reproduce the color that MH/MH+VHO/t5 can do. Yet... It's an exciting time though, can't wait to see what comes out and for how much in the future. Probably see some sweet rigs for great value.

ronnie · Sep 2, 2011

lamzid said:
Maybe I was the only one to take it to heart. Is that so bad? I see faulty reasoning creating a thread followed by biased cheerleading of the pros of one tech and constant negativity towards the cons of another. It's free for me to speak on it. It does not make me a troll.

As far as not getting off my high horse. I believed I was? Maybe it's your inability to comprehend me and then rudely say "what's your point". So I had to get me back on that pony. I'm fine and dandy if this is a peoples opinion thread. But much like politics and religion you weren't here to learn. Just crow why your future purchase and belief is the right one(for you).

Thanks

ronnie · Sep 2, 2011

lamzid said:
Anyway I will contribute my opinion of the techs as that is the topic at hand. For nano tanks and up to 75g I believe LEDs are going to be great and a HUGE succes. They'll most likely replace the smaller PC/T5 lighting fixtures used on those tanks. Due to the fact of less heat, less space, little to no bulb replacement(hopefully this remains true) and the cool shimmer they can provide(I'm a shimmer junkie .

I think for the larger SPS dominated reefs and especially some of the deeper(width not height) tanks I forsee MH still being the best option available. Time will tell what LED can do and if they can provide fixtures that will compete with MH/MH+VHO/HO actinic supplementation. Most people running the larger tanks (200g+) aren't too concerned with power bills, bulb replacements or the upfront cost of a chiller. So I don't see the need to switch over to LED for any reason other than to "check it out". Because if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

I too am in the camp that LED only setups cannot reproduce the color that MH/MH+VHO/t5 can do. Yet... It's an exciting time though, can't wait to see what comes out and for how much in the future. Probably see some sweet rigs for great value.

We shall see - My 120 is 48x26x24 - and will be lit by cheap chinese LEDs. So it sounds like I'll be bucking two horses there.

I also will be lighting my 96x36x12 tank with cheap chinese LEDs. I just finished the soldering on the fixture last night. I'm hoping to put the drivers on tonight and get them running this weekend if I can get the time.

And, FWIW, I did finally sell most of the MH stuff I had. It just took four times longer to do so. I'm sure it was because of one of the ors your put in place with one of your first posts....

turbo21 · Sep 2, 2011

lamzid said:
Anyway I will contribute my opinion of the techs as that is the topic at hand. For nano tanks and up to 75g I believe LEDs are going to be great and a HUGE succes. They'll most likely replace the smaller PC/T5 lighting fixtures used on those tanks. Due to the fact of less heat, less space, little to no bulb replacement(hopefully this remains true) and the cool shimmer they can provide(I'm a shimmer junkie .

I think for the larger SPS dominated reefs and especially some of the deeper(width not height) tanks I forsee MH still being the best option available. Time will tell what LED can do and if they can provide fixtures that will compete with MH/MH+VHO/HO actinic supplementation. Most people running the larger tanks (200g+) aren't too concerned with power bills, bulb replacements or the upfront cost of a chiller. So I don't see the need to switch over to LED for any reason other than to "check it out". Because if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

I too am in the camp that LED only setups cannot reproduce the color that MH/MH+VHO/t5 can do. Yet... It's an exciting time though, can't wait to see what comes out and for how much in the future. Probably see some sweet rigs for great value.

Here is a 1350 gal tank using led. "We know MHL works, but LED can work better" | Coral Magazine

Troylee · Sep 2, 2011

Wow crazy thread haha!!!! I'm gonna say this much I currently own a small tank 30x30 and LEDs are not for me... I had my best results with tried and true mh so that's what I'm running again with a t5 / led suppliment... Nothing changed on my last display except lighting and fwiw I saw better results with mh so I switched back.... Granted I have a Sps tank that might make all the difference in the world... Then again maybe not I had a heck of a time keeping lps under those LEDs since it was so intense....
Ps. Dave I wasn't looking at the bulbs I had both tanks in a small room about 3ft apart and my mh tank was bright the light coming out of the front glass reflected on the led tank... In reality thou that dim led tank was prolly twice the par it was insane how they cook sticks...

secretreefer · Sep 2, 2011

now we just need a update on the PC powered chalice palace.......

Wy Renegade · Sep 2, 2011

lamzid said:
Maybe I was the only one to take it to heart. Is that so bad? I see faulty reasoning creating a thread followed by biased cheerleading of the pros of one tech and constant negativity towards the cons of another. It's free for me to speak on it. It does not make me a troll.

As far as not getting off my high horse. I believed I was? Maybe it's your inability to comprehend me and then rudely say "what's your point". So I had to get me back on that pony. I'm fine and dandy if this is a peoples opinion thread. But much like politics and religion you weren't here to learn. Just crow why your future purchase and belief is the right one(for you).

I always find it interesting when individuals jump into one of these threads or conversations asking for scientific facts and deriding the thread because its all based on opinion. The real truth of the matter is that very little of the forward movement and knowledge gained in the reefing community over the many years it has existed has been based on any type of scientific facts. Most of what has been learned and shared throughout the many years of the hobby is based on nothing more then simple information, trial and error, and an exchange of observations, not on pure scientific experimentation or data collection.

If we deride the sharing of opinions and observations because they are not scientific and therefore nothing can be learned from that exchange of information, then we will derail the forward momentum of learning that is occuring within our hobby and instead of moving forward and providing better care for those organisms we have accepted responsibility for, we'll all be sitting on our hands waiting for the science to catch up with where we are.

Just my $.02 worth.

Hahnmeister · Sep 2, 2011

Halides are a dying technology IMO. In the last year, the startup cost per lumen between halide and led started to match up (at least for components and the DIY end). Most fixtures add in microcontrollers and other cost boosters, but in the long run, with electrical costs and lumen upkeep, the LED's still win out. LED's are superior, but they present some pitfalls to those who are not aware of what to consider. I see a huge need for spectral readings and par meters in the future, so people can really know what they are putting in their tanks. LED's tend to be bluer looking, with little to no yellow/red. This makes them look duller to the human eye than they really are, as well as masking any clarity problems your water may have. This is a compounding problem then, so people with corals that are turning brown may be saturating their corals for one, but may also have yellow water that they would otherwise see with T5's or MH and take action. With LED's, you may have such a blue light that your water may be shades of green and yellow and never know unless you take the time to look at it under daylight. Another problem is with the lack of spectra in certain ranges... the UV-A through 430nm range in particular seems to be lacking all together in LED's with rare exception. Orphek and ledbroupbuy.com are selling some of the only LED's that are in the true violet spectra. This is something that otherwise will need to be added with T5's or halides since some corals in particular (many acros) need some spectra in these ranges. Sorry, but royal blues aren't good enough.

Onedesign1 · Sep 2, 2011

Wow...well I'm an avid LED user for about 1.5 years now. I have a little of everything in my tank and came from MHs. I suggest everyone to use what they like and move on. They all work well IMO Although the PAR comment has me chuckling.....

Paul B · Sep 3, 2011

My tank is old and it has had every type of light available from regular incandescent to quartz to regular flourescent to VHO to PC to MH and now to LED. The tank has run great on all of them.

Now I want to do a combination of flashlights, candles, kerosene torches, natural sunlight, VHO, actinic, MH, LEDs and uranium to see what effect it has on my amphipods.

droblack · Sep 3, 2011

I don't think LEDs can overtake MHs as a primary light source, YET. The newer dimmable T5s appear to be the frontrunner now, and LEDs have found their spot as fantastic supplemental lights. Keeping good colors with LEDs is too difficult, that's why everyone leaves their blues on so high. MHs still are king for SPS with high light intensity needs IMO.

caudill187 · Sep 3, 2011

I've got custom LED's over my frag tank and after a long adjustment period, my SPS corals are loving them. Nice LED's can be decieving because the light is so directed towards the corals and not our eyes, the PAR values are way above my visual estimates, when comparing them to halides or t5s. Halides and T5's scatter light more and because of this, I bleached my acro frags when I first got the LED's.

I also love my radiums over the display. I'm in the process of building a fixture with Halides and LED blues. I figure this way I'll get the sunlight shimmer effect and tried and true spectral analysis of halides with the awesome appearance of the corals under blue led's. The blues are dimmable so I can adjust color this way and no T5 actinic bulb replacement.

That's where I'm at

GR808 · Sep 3, 2011

caudill187 said:
I've got custom LED's over my frag tank and after a long adjustment period, my SPS corals are loving them. Nice LED's can be decieving because the light is so directed towards the corals and not our eyes, the PAR values are way above my visual estimates, when comparing them to halides or t5s. Halides and T5's scatter light more and because of this, I bleached my acro frags when I first got the LED's.

What kind of adjustments did you find beneficial when you dialed in your LEDs? I'm curious to find out what worked for you. Thanks

GR808 · Sep 3, 2011

:smile:
wow, it got quiet here.....

ronnie · Sep 3, 2011

No kidding. That was like a blizzard - hit and run!

GR808 · Sep 3, 2011

lol, i agree

SoCaliReefin · Sep 4, 2011

Paul B said:
My tank is old and it has had every type of light available from regular incandescent to quartz to regular flourescent to VHO to PC to MH and now to LED. The tank has run great on all of them.

Now I want to do a combination of flashlights, candles, kerosene torches, natural sunlight, VHO, actinic, MH, LEDs and uranium to see what effect it has on my amphipods.

Hahahaha!lol! That is hysterical.. Thanks for the good laugh before bed.
Jeez, everybody so serious. Lol! :xd:

slk55r · Sep 4, 2011

MH

I went from 2 250w MH
to T5s
to LEDS
to T5s supplemented with LEDs
to now 2 400w MH supplimented with LEDs

I went with 3 haddonis, clams and primarily SPS for my new 210g tank and I"m staying with MH until someone shows me that Haddoni's do fine under LEDs.

To me there is still too much controversy about color loss even under the newest LED systems out there. Thats enough for me to stick with MH for a couple more years.

redtop03 · Sep 4, 2011

I'm still using MH...my only complaint is the heat,power consumption,and bulb cost,and it is pretty much what everybody has a complaint with,but I have yet to hear of someone say their coral wasn't doing good under 'em,they are a proven technology and have done so time and time again,I do believe that LEDs are the future in reef lighting and someday will totally replace MHs but for now,LEDs are still very new and people will be skeptical as long as there are mixed reviews about 'em,as Troylee said,they are almost there....

I plan to go to LEDs but I'll give 'em a while longer before I change and even then,I plan to mix 'em in with T5s,I don't want to totally rely on LEDs until I know they can stand the test of time,I know that LEDs will last forever it seems in normal electronic applications but given the harshness of a saltwater aquarium on most things,can they still hold up as long ? if they prove their durability there,than I'll be ready to change over,but for now,I'll sit back and enjoy reading everybody else trial and error with 'em...