Ty is our local resident mad scientist.
No Water Changes - FarmerTy Reefing Method
- Thread starter FarmerTy
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Ty is our local resident mad scientist.
OP
OP
Well now Randy has me scared! I'll follow up with more research once I get to that point in a couple months.
Sorry don't know what just happened there, anyway I'm glad found this thread. It all comes down to bio denitrification, if you never want to do another water change, plus not have to worry about consequences, check out the systems at natureef.com.
Squamosa
Well-Known Member
I've gone 2 years now without a water change and my Triton results looked similar to yours when my corals looked "off".My triton results when things weren't happy.
The ratio's are all out of whack!
My salinity had also dropped, the Ca and Mg was also higher than it should be!
I also had an elevated Al reading before I added cuprisorb.
I did not register a Li reading (although many reefers from the USA have) and I think this was potentially your biggest problem!
Once I corrected for my imbalances, the corals 'took off' again.
Like you mentioned, with the advance of Triton and now other German ICP testing facilities also becoming available, what are water changes again??
Lovely tank, keep it up
Squamosa
Well-Known Member
The ZeoVit gang have proven that increasing K+ will have no effect on colouration, in fact there might be more harm in raising the levels so high!
400 ppm is a good level to aim for
Val Shebeko
Active Member
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I think it's always a shock when I say it but I keep SPS-dominant systems with no water changes.
My old 125-gallon system was maintained for almost 3 years with no water changes. Here's an old picture of the tank.
Video:
More currently, I updated to a 215-gallon tank and actually started a tank thread here on Reef2Reef on it.
http://reef2reef.com/threads/farmertys-215-gallon-sps-tank.207702/
FTS:
Recent Video:
Tanks are maintained with a large skimmer, CaRX, biopellets, GFO, and carbon. I dose aminos about 2x/week and feed my fish like there's no tomorrow. I don't use filter socks, vacuum the sand, or even vacuum out the sump ever.
I only mention the method I employ because to me, water changes become unnecessary once nutrient management and supplementation of trace elements have been achieved.
I consider myself a lazy reefer. Why do water changes at all if the two goals of water changes, nutrient reduction and replenishment of trace elements, can be achieved via other methods? Sure, I understand there are a myriad of elements that are not being replenished by the CaRX but whatever they may be, my old 125-gallon didn't require it for 3 years and my current 215-gallon hasn't required it yet either so far.
Am I delusional to think this might work forever? No, I feel like eventually there might be a trace element that will need to be added to the system... Something I can't test for and don't even realize the importance of until it is depleted... But until then, I'm pretty happy not doing water changes for a few more years. [emoji4]
I just wanted to mention for a fun topic of discussion and to also see who else out there has retired their water change buckets. [emoji41]
Happy reefing!
-Ty
How do you suppose this would work with a deep sand bed ?
jetmaker
Valuable Member
I think it's always a shock when I say it but I keep SPS-dominant systems with no water changes.
My old 125-gallon system was maintained for almost 3 years with no water changes. Here's an old picture of the tank.
Video:
More currently, I updated to a 215-gallon tank and actually started a tank thread here on Reef2Reef on it.
http://reef2reef.com/threads/farmertys-215-gallon-sps-tank.207702/
FTS:
Recent Video:
Tanks are maintained with a large skimmer, CaRX, biopellets, GFO, and carbon. I dose aminos about 2x/week and feed my fish like there's no tomorrow. I don't use filter socks, vacuum the sand, or even vacuum out the sump ever.
I only mention the method I employ because to me, water changes become unnecessary once nutrient management and supplementation of trace elements have been achieved.
I consider myself a lazy reefer. Why do water changes at all if the two goals of water changes, nutrient reduction and replenishment of trace elements, can be achieved via other methods? Sure, I understand there are a myriad of elements that are not being replenished by the CaRX but whatever they may be, my old 125-gallon didn't require it for 3 years and my current 215-gallon hasn't required it yet either so far.
Am I delusional to think this might work forever? No, I feel like eventually there might be a trace element that will need to be added to the system... Something I can't test for and don't even realize the importance of until it is depleted... But until then, I'm pretty happy not doing water changes for a few more years. [emoji4]
I just wanted to mention for a fun topic of discussion and to also see who else out there has retired their water change buckets. [emoji41]
Happy reefing!
-Ty
I run exactly the same way.
Kershaw
Valuable Member
How often do you change gfo and replace what ever you have to replace. Basically what do you estimate the cost per month and time to maintain the tank this way. I have met some one else that did this method.
jjbunn
Active Member
Being a lazy reefer, I too ran my previous tank with no water changes for six years, with no apparent ill effects - but I did have to regularly top up the water due to evaporation. I used straight tap water for that, so sue me Having said that, my tank was smaller and much less impressive than FarmerTy's. Eventually I lost it due to an extended power cut
Having said that, my tank was smaller and much less impressive than FarmerTy's. Eventually I lost it due to an extended power cut
OP
OP
I've gone 2 years now without a water change and my Triton results looked similar to yours when my corals looked "off".
The ratio's are all out of whack!
My salinity had also dropped, the Ca and Mg was also higher than it should be!
I also had an elevated Al reading before I added cuprisorb.
I did not register a Li reading (although many reefers from the USA have) and I think this was potentially your biggest problem!
Once I corrected for my imbalances, the corals 'took off' again.
Like you mentioned, with the advance of Triton and now other German ICP testing facilities also becoming available, what are water changes again??
Lovely tank, keep it up
Thanks Squamosa! When things were out of whack, it was because I had accidentally let my salinity get crazy high! Once I lowered that, I was back on track. I still have elevated Al and Li with no ill effect, interestingly.
The ZeoVit gang have proven that increasing K+ will have no effect on colouration, in fact there might be more harm in raising the levels so high!
400 ppm is a good level to aim for
Thanks for the heads up! I ran across an article a couple months back about potential benefits of elevated potassium but the author hadn't actually completed any trial tests yet. If the Zeovit zealots have already experimented with it with no observed advantages, I may just forgo that experiment and look for my next one!
You'd have the bonus of nitrate removal via denitrification in the deep sand bed, which would probably render the carbon dosing extraneous. I've heard of DSBs crashing after 4-6 years due to accumulation of detritus in the sand but I don't honestly know if there is truth to that. Part of me feels like there isn't and the tanks crashed due to owner apathy.
I had a bunch of zoas in my old 125-gallon system that didn't give me any issues. I even had a palau nepthea in there as well. I could see your potential thought on chemical warfare but I never noticed anything to lead me to that conclusion.
I'm pretty lazy when it comes to reefing. So much so that I ran my RO/DI line through the wall directly to a reservoir in my sump. I don't even carry water to my tank to refill the ATO reservoir. I got an auto-neck cleaner for my skimmer and extra reservoir for skimmate. The auto fish feeder keeps me from the daily chore as well.
Maintenance is dose aminos 2x/week, wipe glass 1x/week, empty skimmer reservoir monthly (have skimmate reservoir and auto neck cleaner), replace my GFO and carbon monthly, top off biopellets and calcium reactor media semi-annually, refill my CO2 cylinder every two years, vinegar dip and clean powerheads quarterly, and clean all pumps annually. For aminos, I rotate brands when the bottle runs out... mainly between Red Sea Energy, acro power, and Fauna Marin Ultra Amin.
Time per month is hardly anything to maintain. The GFO/carbon swap takes 30 mins usually and emptying the skimmer reservoir takes 5 mins... and we're talking 35 mins tops... monthly!!! Wiping the glass takes 10 mins and dosing aminos takes 5 mins. I do test my alk weekly and I test the rest quarterly.
Cost is GFO, carbon, biopellets, CaRX media, CO2 refill, and aminos. GFO I buy bulk off Ebay, I basically have a 2-3 year supply (25 lbs) for $220 if I remember correctly. Carbon I buy bulk from BRS, 1-2 year supply for $50, CaRX media I buy from BRS as well... Reborn media in a 5-gallon bucket $90 for 1-2 year supply, CO2 refill for 20 lb tank is $35, and aminos at $100-$150/year. Total is roughly $400/year or $33/month or about $1/day of replacement media/aminos for a 215-gallon tank. This is obviously not counting the upfront cost of CaRX, CO2 tank, regulator, reactors, etc.
john.m.cole3
cyclOps
how many powerheads and at what gph did you use for flow on your 125? Or was it a powerhead/closed loop style flow? Also, I'm impressed!
john.m.cole3
cyclOps
Oh yeah, and what grade sand and sand depth are you using if you don't mind me asking?
OP
OP
On my old 125-gallon, I believe I had 2 koralias on either end with a Tunze nano wavebox. On my current 215-gallon, I am currently running two Jaebo WP40s as my only flow in the tank and they are more than enough. They are hooked up to my Apex and run through 5-6 different wave mode types throughout the day.
I use special reef grade aragonite sand from Caribsea at roughly 3-4" depth.
john.m.cole3
cyclOps
That's great man! One more piece of info I need from you, please... I am setting up my tank now and my Marine Pure block is arriving today. What would you do different to rinse your block better prior to installing in your sump? Awesome tank BTW!
OP
OP
I picked up the Reef Angel Jaebo cable and had someone rewire it for me using a Cat5 cable to plug into my Apex VDM port. Then I borrowed some programming and modified it to my own use.
I believe Jaebo sells a Jaebo to Apex cable these days though.
OP
OP
Yeah, I goofed on the 2nd block I added by not really rinsing it at all. Just run it under tap water is all that is needed. I gave it a good shake and let it sit out a bit to drain as much as I could before putting it in the tank.
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