Possible velvet irradication. Many warnings inside.

BoneXriffic

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So first and foremost, this is still early in the testing phase. Also this will not be widley accepted by many. And a big warning, I do not reccomend nor endorse anyone attempting this just yet.

Hope someday this works and becomes a sticky =)

So next up. The honorable mentions, I would also like these, and everyone with positive and/or negative feed back to please interject! I am a big boy and can handle it....
@twilliard @Humblefish @melypr1985 @4FordFamily @FL_Reefer others as well, sorry if you wern't added

This journey started with Twillard, whom was battling the good fight, dinos. A plague that has taken so many fellow reefers, me as well. Through many trials and errors he found something that worked. Some it did not quite work so well for. For me a cure, and this left me to wonder, thanks to humble and mel, and all the research they have led me too in Marine Velvet. Most of us have faced this devilish disease.

I have learned that velvet is a form of dino. If you wish to know common cures you will find much info from humble and mel. A big one, fallow. But some of us have a terrible time getting fish out of a display tank. Most of the time we are too late.

No before I go any further, I fully support you to QUARANTINE FIRST.
Eh, yeah it is totally a wise decision.

I however was not so smart. And after several deaths, And 2 immune fish I found myself in a bad place. 2 fish that wont die and are impossible to catch in a full reef 90gallon aquarium. Can't fallow, can't treat the host fish. So what do I do? Nothing, I assumed I was stuck with the lonley clown and blue damsel forever.

So knowing Velvet is a form of dino, and knowing of a fairly invasive but promising cure I decide its time to add some fish, first another clown. Hardy. 2 weeks later, a blue hippo. Not so hardy. Now it has been a little over a week for the tang, and three weeks for the clown and guess what? Yep, no signs, no spots....nothing but happy healthy fish

Yes it is early to say for sure. As I said early in the testing phase. But things look promising.

Now some of you know where this is going. For the others, and I am preparing my self to duck. I know things will be thrown.

Bleach

There, I said it. The stuff you use to make your toilet tollerable, ruins your clothes.... All things that should scare you from using it in your aquarium. So do not use it...just yet. Let me save the world, or ruin my aquarium first. @twilliard has had some unfortunate things happen. And some good as well.
If this works, he was the pioneer!

So what am I dosing? Well all bleach has a potencey. Liquid bleach ranges from 5 to 12 percent... so, much maths later we came to a dose rate of .003 divided by bleach percentage x how many gallons....to give you ml per gallon....so for 6 percent bleach, .003 divided by .06 x 100gallons gave me my dose....the math is...unimportant now however as....yep, still testing. 3 weeks straight of dosing now and no ill effects. 5ml of bleach twice a day.

But consider the possibilities. A possible reef safe cure for velvet. And who knows what other diseases we face might come from this IF IT WORKS! and thats a big of. I am skeptical but optimistic.

Much updates to come, and may the pitchforks and fires commence...and for the end of the beginning of this journey how bout a pic of some happy not dying fish living in a tank recently wrecked by velvet
1470443924410276345472.jpg
 
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FL_Reefer

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Definitely following along, I unfortunately don't have to much expertise in treating fish disease other than ich but I would love to hear the thoughts of others. Also glad your tank is looking better too!
 

Mike_J

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This is pretty amazing research and kudos to those of you in the midst of it. I'm cautiously optimistic about your trials and definitely following along, hoping for a revolutionary outcome! Good luck!
 

4FordFamily

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I am very much intrigued but equally concerned for your fish. I am not smart enough with regards to how or why this would or wouldn't work.

When I learned that velvet were a dino, I wondered if you were going the metro route as I thought that Dino thread was going (full disclosure I did not read it although I should because my angel tank is overrun with dinos).

I guess keep us all posted, more testing will
probably be needed to confirm anything.

One question though - what made you think to add bleach in the first place? Was it the Dino thread?
 
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BoneXriffic

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I am very much intrigued but equally concerned for your fish. I am not smart enough with regards to how or why this would or wouldn't work.

When I learned that velvet were a dino, I wondered if you were going the metro route as I thought that Dino thread was going (full disclosure I did not read it although I should because my angel tank is overrun with dinos).

I guess keep us all posted, more testing will
probably be needed to confirm anything.

One question though - what made you think to add bleach in the first place? Was it the Dino thread?
Yes, twillard tested this first. And I have alot of knowledge with chlorine, dosing rates and the math invloved so I ran with it. My dose seems perfectly safe in the short term for fish, however the long term is undetermined. So thwre are really several tests now. Has the velvet bee snuffed? After how long was it irradicated, and are there long term effects?... the dose rate actually puts a lower ppm than our drinking water typically has. Relative to water age in a system, it would be about as low as acceptable most places. So we shall see.
 

4FordFamily

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Yes, twillard tested this first. And I have alot of knowledge with chlorine, dosing rates and the math invloved so I ran with it. My dose seems perfectly safe in the short term for fish, however the long term is undetermined. So thwre are really several tests now. Has the velvet bee snuffed? After how long was it irradicated, and are there long term effects?... the dose rate actually puts a lower ppm than our drinking water typically has. Relative to water age in a system, it would be about as low as acceptable most places. So we shall see.
Interesting. Keep us posted!
 

4FordFamily

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On a side note, does bleach kill dinos, too?
 
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BoneXriffic

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On a side note, does bleach kill dinos, too?
It has been successful for some, me included. Some not.however I am not sure on their dosing or other factors. I believe this kills the free swimmers and requires some cleaning. So in theory the life cycle of velvet, when they detach from the fish and become free swimmers they die, not allowing them to reproduce and rehost. Like i said thougg still just a theory
 

twilliard

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So first and foremost, this is still early in the testing phase. Also this will not be widley accepted by many. And a big warning, I do not reccomend nor endorse anyone attempting this just yet.

Hope someday this works and becomes a sticky =)

So next up. The honorable mentions, I would also like these, and everyone with positive and/or negative feed back to please interject! I am a big boy and can handle it....
@twilliard @Humblefish @melypr1985 @4FordFamily @FL_Reefer others as well, sorry if you wern't added

This journey started with Twillard, whom was battling the good fight, dinos. A plague that has taken so many fellow reefers, me as well. Through many trials and errors he found something that worked. Some it did not quite work so well for. For me a cure, and this left me to wonder, thanks to humble and mel, and all the research they have led me too in Marine Velvet. Most of have faced this devilish disease.

I have learned that velvet is a form of dino. If you wish to know common cures you will find much info from humble and mel. A big one, fallow. But some of us have a terrible time getting fish out of a display tank. Most of the time we are too late.

No before I go any further, I fully support you QUARANTINE FIRST.
Eh, yeah it is totally wise.

I however was not so smart. And after several deaths, And 2 immune fish I found myself in a bad place. 2 fish that wont die and are impossible to catch in a full reef 90gallon aquarium. Can't fallow, can't treat the host fish. So what do I do? Nothing, assumed I was stuck with the lonley clown and blue damsel forever.

So knowing Velvet is a form of dino, and knowing of a fairly invasive but promising cure I decide its time to add some fish, first another clown. Hardy. A week later, a blue hippo. Not so hardy. Now it has been a little over a week for the tang, and three weeks for the clow and guess what? Yep, no signs, no spots....nothing but happy healthy fish

Yes it is early to say for sure. As I said early in the testing phase. But things look promising.

Now some of you know where this is going. For the others, and I am preparing my self to duck. I know things will be thrown.

Bleach

There, I said it. The stuff you use to make your toilet tollerable, ruins your clothes.... All things that should scare you from using it in your aquarium. So do not use it...just yet. Let me save the world, or ruin my aquarium first. @twilliard has had some unfortunate things happen. And some good as well.
If this works, he was the pioneer!

So what am I dosing? Well all bleach has a potencey. Liquid bleach ranges from 5 to 12 percent... so much maths later we came to a dose rate of .003 divided by bleach percentage x how many gallons....to give you ml per gallon....so for 6 percent bleach, .003 divided by .06 x 100gallone gave me my dose....the math is...unimportant now however as....yep testing. 3 weeks straight of dosing now amd no ill effects. 3ml of bleach twice a day.

But consider the possibilities. A possible reef safe cure for velvet. And who knows what other diseases we face might come from this IF IT WORKS! and thats a big of. I am skeptical but optimistic.

Much updates to come, and may the pitchforks and fires commence...and for the end of the beginning of this journey how bout a pic of some happy not dying fish living in a tank recently wrecked by velvet
1470443924410276345472.jpg
Nice to see you got this up!
 

Lenny_S

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This is an interesting approach for sure. But isn't the main reason chlorine or chloramine added to municipal water supplies is to kill bacteria and keep the water safe for drinking? So wouldn't it also kill the nitrifying bacteria in the aquarium?
 

Humblefish

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Table 2 in this article lists using chlorine to kill two life stages of ich. 2.4 mg/L will kill all free swimming theronts in 1 hour. But 60 mg/L is required to eradicate the tomont (encysted) stage but that takes 24 hrs. Of course, corals/fish/inverts would never tolerate those levels. The table is meant to present disinfection options for an infested tank.

IF this approach is working it would likely only be killing the free swimming stage. So, while 3 weeks of "chlorine dosing" could be enough to eradicate velvet; you would need to dose for at least 35 days (with 72 days being more ideal) if anyone wanted to try this method out on ich. :eek:
 
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BoneXriffic

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Table 2 in this article lists using chlorine to kill two life stages of ich. 2.4 mg/L will kill all free swimming theronts in 1 hour. But 60 mg/L is required to eradicate the tomont (encysted) stage but that takes 24 hrs. Of course, corals/fish/inverts would never tolerate these levels.

IF this approach is working it would likely only be killing the free swimming stage. So, while 3 weeks of "chlorine dosing" should be enough to eradicate velvet, you would need to dose for at least 35 days (with 72 days being more ideal) if anyone wanted to try this method out on ich. :eek:
Yes, and that is why I plan to push dosing to that point, to hope everything is still alive and well after extended periods. Thanks for a good target!
 
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BoneXriffic

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This is an interesting approach for sure. But isn't the main reason chlorine or chloramine added to municipal water supplies is to kill bacteria and keep the water safe for drinking? So wouldn't it also kill the nitrifying bacteria in the aquarium?
Chlorine doesnt sterylize, it disinfects. It our water we have plenty of bacteria growing. All harmless. Its when fecal choliforms are found that we worry, but total choliforms is a way of life. As I have had no amonia spikes it seems my bacteriapopulation is holding on.

Side note, while dosing dinos and GHA is vanishing, but it seems to have no effect on red slime...as a matter of fact i seem to be removing the competition making it easier for redslime...
 

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well this will be entertaining. :cool:

I have faith. Kudos to you guys for trying it out. If I could afford to set up another tank I would love to do these kinds of things. But way too much invested in anything I have running to try new things.

I'll certainly be watching though.
 

Humblefish

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Yes, and that is why I plan to push dosing to that point, to hope everything is still alive and well after extended periods. Thanks for a good target!

The way I see it, the two big questions you face are:
  1. Is the chlorine dosage I'm using strong enough to kill all the free swimmers, without harming my corals, inverts and fish?
  2. Is chlorine remaining in the water long enough to kill all the free swimmers (it evaporates quickly)?
If "no" to either question, then you might just be managing velvet's numbers without completely eradicating it. When I experimented using metro on velvet, I ran into an issue where it would drop below therapeutic levels before I could safely administer the next dosage. So, while it was killing some of the dinospores, some were still making their way onto the fish.
 

4FordFamily

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The way I see it, the two big questions you face are:
  1. Is the chlorine dosage I'm using strong enough to kill all the free swimmers, without harming my corals, inverts and fish?
  2. Is chlorine remaining in the water long enough to kill all the free swimmers (it evaporates quickly)?
If "no" to either question, then you might just be managing velvet's numbers without completely eradicating it. When I experimented using metro on velvet, I ran into an issue where it would drop below therapeutic levels before I could safely administer the next dosage. So, while it was killing some of the dinospores, some were still making their way onto the fish.
In a far less scientific and detailed way I was thinking the same thing actually. I certainly hope I am wrong
 
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