Pros vs Cons: Deep Sand Bed vs Shallow Sand Bed

[s2nhle]

+1 that is how my tank set up with SSB. I am looking for the best long term solution BB or DSB? I can add more sand in or remove them out.

That's a good question that I am also curious about. From my experience dosing carbon on a timer, vodka/vinegar can really be stopped anytime and I have not noticed any problems needing a "taper down" methodology so in a powerloss they cause no harm to the tank at all. Likewise a ball of chaeto with a light on a timer should not impact the tank much if at all in a powerloss. In addition something like liquid carbon dosing if one has an extended power outage can just be shut off if you have to run battery backups on powerheads or a generator.

 

[hart24601]

You can tell by my other posts in this thread I am no fan of DSB! At least not with other export methods, but there are many others that feel just as strongly pro DSB. I think I made some good points, but whatever you decide good luck!

 

[jzaso]

How do I know whether I had properly done a dsb system? Would you tell me more about it? also would expand your thought on this sentence: "if done properly-a dsb system is far more tolerant of a power outage than the highly controlled dosed computerized supplemented system-its as simple as it gets" Thanks,

Well probably should of left the more tolerant out-was a reference to the buffering abilities of the dsb-what I would consider a proper modern dsb to be a grain size/shape graded aragonite bed with a oolitic .5mm and under base 3-4" dp with mixed grain size top layer 1.0-2.0mm 1" dp- the fine base layer provides a anoxic base,and barrier for migration of particulates/detrius these are held in the top coarser anerobic layer for bio-processing and flow "flushing" flow over the dsb is also critical no areas of particulate settlement aragonite composition for buffering and trace elements oolitic shape for hydro dynamics-the newer graded substrates make the "modern" dsb much more efficient at processing waste and manufacturing food /buffering /supplementation-not to say that other methods of nutrient control will not be needed on a highly taxed system( high bio-load)-but for the minimalist system(light bio-load) it is likley all that is needed with maybe some small supplementation- depending on system requirements-not a cure all but a efficient tool in the battle of nutrient reduction supplementation-John.

 

[jzaso]

You can tell by my other posts in this thread I am no fan of DSB! At least not with other export methods, but there are many others that feel just as strongly pro DSB. I think I made some good points, but whatever you decide good luck!

Lol, yes definitely know your stance on the subject! you made a lot of good points-and thanks for not beating me up on the more tolerant statement! I think everbody defaults to the "old school" dsb and there problems-substrate tech has advanced the graded/ shaped substrates that are now available make the modern dsb much more productive and less of a liability than there "old school" counter parts-

 

[hart24601]

hi all,
i am a new member nice to meet you all

Greetings, lots of good info on this site and nice members. Enjoy!

 

[bitzerjd]

I have had a dsb now for 10 years and i agree with what Mr. Desert rat has stated.

Mine is 5 to 6 or so inches deep and has been in place since 2001. What I find interesting is that if I get lax in my tank maintenance, I will see the corners turning black...after a couple water changes (10% each) the turn white again....Seems to work for me...No ticking time bomb as others have predicted. My only Issues is the fine sand and the Tunze's can create a sandstorm pretty easily.

 

[s2nhle]

Well probably should of left the more tolerant out-was a reference to the buffering abilities of the dsb-what I would consider a proper modern dsb to be a grain size/shape graded aragonite bed with a oolitic .5mm and under base 3-4" dp with mixed grain size top layer 1.0-2.0mm 1" dp- the fine base layer provides a anoxic base,and barrier for migration of particulates/detrius these are held in the top coarser anerobic layer for bio-processing and flow "flushing" flow over the dsb is also critical no areas of particulate settlement aragonite composition for buffering and trace elements oolitic shape for hydro dynamics-the newer graded substrates make the "modern" dsb much more efficient at processing waste and manufacturing food /buffering /supplementation-not to say that other methods of nutrient control will not be needed on a highly taxed system( high bio-load)-but for the minimalist system(light bio-load) it is likley all that is needed with maybe some small supplementation- depending on system requirements-not a cure all but a efficient tool in the battle of nutrient reduction supplementation-John.

Thank you very much for explain it further. Good point.

 

[Mmsetta]

Great thread! Sounds like dsb is a more "organic" approach and eventually leads to an environment that mimics the natural sea environment. Very appealing and I love experienced reefers that only have to do a waterchange every 6 weeks or so (jealous!). But, ssb is more "active" in that you have direct control over tank chemistry through husbandry and technology. Different strokes for different folks.

Personally, I had to move some of my rock recently in a deeper sandbed about a year old and it caused some major issues.

I am going with ssb on an upgrade now.

Question- is there a benefit to using more expensive live sand for a ssb since it is really just for asthetics? I am planing on 1/2 only?

Also, how do I calculate how much sand I would need to buy based on tank dementions?

 

[kv69]

No sand bed here. Had dsb and a shallow sand bed. Tank much happier sans sand.

 

[s2nhle]

I am thinking about putting the cutting board under the rock. Is it safe to do so?

 

[revhtree]

Bump for votes!

 

[technojunky101]

I like deep sand beds but they need the right amount of livestock aka worms and brittle stars to keep working properly cleaning of edges and not to fine sand. From my understanding you need to be careful with fish that burrow gobys ect cause they hunt for food in sand bed and will kill fauna and worms that keep dsb clean and active.

 

[s2nhle]

Shallow sand bed or bare bottom work well for me. it is easier for my cleaned

 

[brandon429]

This thread could benefit from mass postings of a dredge test outcome. mud scientists use those for similar assessments and we can do a micro version with airline and a stick or dowel.

my sandbed is 6" deep consistently so if anything im in favor of them for various reasons, but discovering their liabilities compared to no sb is also fun and the dredge w show results so there is no guessing.

If fish and turnover animals or any other scheme (like deep cleaning which is what i do) are helping vs contributing to the sink, that'll register as nitrate potential within the bed being the same or lower than nitrate readings from the topwater. the typical old bed of Berlin style will be pure nitrate down below per the dredge, and a bunch of carbon dosing up top<---all relative to sb age and other factors, but I bet readings posted w show significance



the dredge is to siphon out a sample of the lowest portions of the sandbed into a cup with some airline taped to a stick or arrow shaft, let that mud sit for exactly 24 hours before testing in a cup (this is how wastewater techs prepare BOD samples, the delay is critical to accuracy)

 

[jackson6745]

I prefer shallow, but I believe that there is a lifespan to both of them. When you find your nutrient creeping up too fast, or coral health + growth just not the same no matter what you do, it maybe time to consider a sandbed change IMO. I've experienced this a few times with both shallow and deep sandbeds.

 

[Berlibee]

Where is BB option in the vote?!

 

[Robthorn]

Deep sandbeds have a shelf life. Ask Ron Shimek when he tried to sell deep sand beds many years ago. Some people make it work but a large portion were asking why their tanks suck so bad. Thankfully I didn't fall for that trap. <------ See what I did there? ;-)

 

[Forsaken77]

I keep mine at the very cusp of between deep and shallow. It's 3 inches. Denitrification happens at roughly 3 inches down and I definitely need that. Plus I like the padding in case a large rock falls over. I have 3 sand burrowing Wrasses and they like do dig right next to the rocks. I don't glue them because I don't want a whole cascade of rocks tumbling over either.

So I'm at the middle point. Any deeper and it's too much detritus.

 

[Leaveitalone]

1" layer of expanding spray foam, thin layer of glue/silicone/your choice of adhesive, pour in choice of substrate, slope shallow towards sides so foam can't be seen from sides of tank, leave over night, pour out excess substrate, rinse off loose particles......Bam, natural-looking, provides cushion for falls, all pros of bare bottom.

 

[icemansixty9]

Going on 14yrs with my 4" plus 1" phlenum in 500gal no problems
Agreed on good skimmer and macro algae fuge