Quarantine 40-50 fish from existing 500 gallon reef

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by Jeffdstafford, Nov 30, 2016.

  1. Jeffdstafford

    Jeffdstafford Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    My Chemets copper test arrives this evening thanks to Amazon Prime, so I will update the thread tonight on the test results comparison between the Chemets and the API copper tests. Hopefully it will give me some direction on my API interpretation and tell me if I was close, or completely off.
     
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  2. monkiboy

    monkiboy Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    I use the chemetrics kit for copper as I quarantine quite a bit of fish and favor it over the API and salifert a hundred times over. especially with cupramine measuring in intervals of tenths helps tremendously getting to therapeutic ranges in the lower ranges. it is also nice that the same kit can be used for both cupramine and copperpower in that the kit provides the comparator which is easy to read and use for cupramine and the vials for the higher range for copper power.
     
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  3. monkiboy

    monkiboy Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    I don't recall which copper you were using but if cupramine when using the comparator I find the easiest thing to do is to hold the comparator up to a light source (use the same one at same time of day when measuring) and I hold my two thumbs on each side of the comparison vials in the comparator to create a single vertical line between the sample and comparator vial and rotate to find perfect match on the outside circle (comparator vial) when uncovered and all vials are present it makes it harder to differentiate sometimes. with the higher range and using the standards provided for 1-10ppm I just place my sample vial in between each standard in a well lit room against the white background for comparison covering the others sliding between the two closest to find a match. the kit makes testing so easy and fuss free without worry and less error prone and the results feel more consistent and reliable in my ability to read them and feel confident about my levels.
     
  4. sricorals

    sricorals Member

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    Hello,
    I had velvet and Ich in my DT 2 weeks back, so I moved all fish from DT to a QT. I've been observing the fish for few days and I don't see a sign of Velvet or Ich. Do I still treat the for Velvet and Ich?

    Thank you.
     
  5. Empress

    Empress Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure it was velvet or ich and not just sand? If it wasn't sand, I would treat with copper. And let the DT be fallow for 76 days. Do not add anything wet to your DT until then.

    Also a picture would help.
     
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  6. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad Expert Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member

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    Yes; treat with copper or Chloroquine phosphate for 4 weeks in QT. Go fallow in the DT for at least 6 weeks; 76 days would be better.
     
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  7. Jeffdstafford

    Jeffdstafford Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    I am using Coppersafe this round; I also purchased Cupramine which I will try out in the future; sounds like it will be especially easy to test Cupramine with the comparator. Thanks for the input, glad to hear some real world experience on it!

    Glad you aren't seeing any further signs; hopefully it wasn't actually velvet if it went away without treatment? Sounds like velvet is an absolute nightmare, but as other's have said, treat with Coppersafe or Cupramine medication and let you display tank go fallow for 76 days, I'm going to go a bit longer just because I'm paranoid and want to be as close to 100% eradication as I can be. Let us know if you need further help, there are very knowledgable and helpful folks in this thread that have been an awesome resource for myself!
     
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  8. Jeffdstafford

    Jeffdstafford Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    Also, I went home for lunch and checked on the QT, and unfortunately my 6 line wrasse died; it was the absolute fattest 6 line I've ever seen, so that is a bummer.

    TTM is not an option currently for what I have going on, but I think that will try that with my next future wrasse purchase.
     
  9. Jeffdstafford

    Jeffdstafford Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    Well, glad I bought the Chemets test, I was definitely over 2ppm, probably about 2.5, which is probably why I lost some or all or the wrasses, what a stupid mistake! In the beginning I felt confident about my reading being correct with the API test, but then I started over thinking it and started worrying about under medicating and not killing all the ich in the system.

    On the plus side, the Chemets test kit is superb and really easy to read, and it would be even more precise with Cupramine as it has finer readings below 1ppm.

    An all around expensive and unfortunate mistake for the fish, but at least I found out now vs pushing through the remaining few weeks of copper treatment. Now, off to do a water change and apologize to the fish!
     
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  10. Jlahr16

    Jlahr16 Member

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    I am so glad to have come across this information while reading your thread Jeff, such a relief as I'm going through QT on my first few fish after getting back into the hobby after a 6 year hiatus. noticed nitrites jump to .5 and nitrates in the 15ppm range and started to worry a bit after the dosing of prazipro.

    I do have a HOB filter with just a sponge that was seeded in my empty, new dt as of December. which was jump started with red sea's Reef Mature Pro kit, but I felt nervous that it still wasn't enough so I added bio-spira to the sponge and let it sit in the filter for an hour before turning it back on. then I let the qt tank run for a week before purchasing/introducing fish to it. my ammonia alert badge has always showed zero as well as with my red sea test kit.(I hope this was a good approach to take)

    I applaud you Jeff on your dedication to getting your fish through QT treatment with such a daunting task. It's always nice to see responsible reefers!
     
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  11. Jeffdstafford

    Jeffdstafford Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    Sounds like you're going about it the correct way as well, glad you've gained some insight from the contributions of others on here..I would have been lost without the help I've received!

    I will suggest you keep a close eye on ammonia, as I didn't have good luck with bio spira, and switched to Dr Tim's with immediate improvement. If it works for you that's awesome, but know Dr T's will definitely solve ammonia with just a few fish in yours if you see ammonia creeping up.

    Thanks for the kind words, and stick around for more fun to come on this thread!
     
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  12. Jeffdstafford

    Jeffdstafford Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    Doing my daily check of the fish, and noticed a renewed turbellaria infestation on all my yellow tangs, a couple have a fair amount on them, the rest only have a few spots on them. I see no stress signs of rapid breathing, loss of appetite or scratching, so I'll wait until I'm done with copper then transition to PraziPro. That should fully deal with that issue, correct?
     
  13. melypr1985

    melypr1985 totally addicted Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad Expert Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member

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    Yes, though if it becomes a problem for them you can do prazi while doing copper. You just have to be careful.
     
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  14. Jeffdstafford

    Jeffdstafford Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    Good deal, thanks. I'll keep a close eye on it; if it gets bad I'll get a crash course from you on what the watch for, but hopefully they can hold off for another couple weeks. They've had it on and off for the past 6 months in the DT
     
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  15. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad Expert Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member

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    +1 Or if prazi doesn't knock it out, you might need to resort to formalin baths.
     
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  16. Jeffdstafford

    Jeffdstafford Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    Good to know; I guess I better start researching Prazi and Formalin this week to figure out how it's done now that I've got copper under control..the learning never stops!
     
  17. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad Expert Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member

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    Prazipro: http://www.reef2reef.com/threads/prazipro.247598/

    Info on formalin below.

    Formalin: Treats Brooklynella and provides temporary relief for Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium). Also may be used as temporary relief, or even as an alternative treatment, for worms such as flukes and black ich.

    How To Treat - Formalin is very interesting because its potential is not fully known. It is best administered in a bath solution for 30-45 minutes, following the dosage instructions on whatever bottle you use; or at 150 ppm if using "100% formalin" (ex. Formalin-MS). The bath should be done in a large glass bowl or container, and temperature should match the tank the fish is coming from. A bucket is not advised as plastic may absorb some of the medication and then leach it back out during future use. It is imperative that you heavily aerate the bath solution for at least 30 minutes before and also during treatment to compensate for oxygen depletion. The fish should be placed in a premixed bath solution. DO NOT add more formalin after the fish is already in the bath.

    For Brooklynella, multiple baths may be required (so long as symptoms persist), but it’s important to give the fish a day to recuperate in-between baths. Formalin has also been used as alternative treatment for external worms such as flukes and black ich. However, at least 2 baths are required (7 days apart) for the same reason described when using Prazipro. For all of the above, post treatment, the fish should not be returned to the same tank/water he came from to prevent reinfection.

    You can dose formalin directly in a quarantine tank, but this can be risky due to the harshness of formalin and how quickly it can deplete the water of oxygen. Providing additional gas exchange to the QT is a must! A fish being treated must be monitored closely and should be removed if showing signs of distress - this applies when treating in QT or in the bath solution.

    Pros - Treats or provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases. In some cases, formalin can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

    Cons/Side Effects - Formalin contains formaldehyde, a known carcinogen. Therefore, precautions must be taken when using it. Preventing your skin from coming in contact with it by wearing water proof gloves and not breathing in any fumes by wearing a face mask is highly recommended. Formalin also can be harsh on the fish and will quickly deplete oxygen from the water. In some areas, the purchase of formalin is prohibited.
     
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  18. Jeffdstafford

    Jeffdstafford Well-Known Member R2R Supporter

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    Thanks Humble, you da man! Sounds like Formalin is risky for long term fish success, and my tangs don't have a bad case, so hopefully prazi will do the trick
     
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  19. Humblefish

    Humblefish Dr. Fish Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Reef Squad Expert Contributor Article Contributor Partner Member

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    That would be optimal. Consider formalin your backup plan.
     
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  20. Empress

    Empress Well-Known Member

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    @Humblefish is it ok to mix antibiotics with formalin (Quick Cure)?
     

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