Red Sea NO3:POX4X Real Time Review.

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I must be doing the math wrong then.
10$ for a gallon was pretty cheap on amazon

*edit
Yup, that's the cheapest, with free shipping
Unless you argue the 2 pack of gallons for 4.44$ is cheaper? Not even mentioning the 20$ shipping LOL (but that doesn't count towards the price of vinegar does it :p )

Peace out lol.. I see this thread has made a comeback, but still nothing new since post 297

Obviously, Amazon must not be a reasonable place to shop for vinegar. :(

At my local grocery store, 1 gallon of distilled white vinegar is $2.59.

Since it (acetate in vinegar) is the most common organic chemical being metabolized in the ocean, I prefer it to methanol, which is not. :)
 

Triggreef

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I must be doing the math wrong then.
10$ for a gallon was pretty cheap on amazon

*edit
Yup, that's the cheapest, with free shipping
Unless you argue the 2 pack of gallons for 4.44$ is cheaper? Not even mentioning the 20$ shipping LOL (but that doesn't count towards the price of vinegar does it :p )

Peace out lol.. I see this thread has made a comeback, but still nothing new since post 297
I'm pretty sure the distilled white vinegar I buy at stop and shop is like $1.50 per gallon. I could be wrong. But I'm fairly certain. Probably cheaper because they don't have to ship it to my door.
 

Rybren

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In a 75 gallon I was using 1.5 ml per day. That was also feeding hourly with Reef Energy, and 8 times a day a mixure of dried copepods/rotifiers, nutricell, and B1/B2 pellets. So at 300 gallons, that would be, 6ml of nopox a day. Remember that was the dose I had to REDUCE to after the bacterial colonies were established. So with a 1 liter bottle at 32$ from amazon that's, 166 days of dosing.
100 ml a day, 1 gallon(3785 ml) of vinegar that costs 10$, that's 37 days a gallon, or 4.4 gallons to equal one bottle of nopox, or 44$ to get to 166 days?
Now to add the cost of vodka.... And now to increase the numbers, from a 180 to the 300 gallons the nopox calculation is dosing.
44$ multiplied by 1.6 equals 70$ in vinegar to equate to a 300g, compared to a 32$ bottle of nopox.

:)
Sorry, not picking on ya, just using a real-world example to show that nopox is cheaper.


Ummm waiter, I'll have some of what he's having :)
 

Tim Gentry

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I've been using the Red Sea No3:po4x for a couple of months now with very good results. The only issue I've had at all is I seem to keep a small amount of cyano in the tank. I've heard that people who use Vodka dosing frequently have this problem and I'm sure the No3:po4x has alcohol in it. I'm going to be trying vinegar dosing for a while and see if I can get the same results minus the cyano.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I've been using the Red Sea No3:po4x for a couple of months now with very good results. The only issue I've had at all is I seem to keep a small amount of cyano in the tank. I've heard that people who use Vodka dosing frequently have this problem and I'm sure the No3:po4x has alcohol in it. I'm going to be trying vinegar dosing for a while and see if I can get the same results minus the cyano.

It does, yes. Ethanol (as in vodka) and acetic acid (as in vinegar) are the two largest components of this mixture.
 

Kungpaoshizi

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Jason, Rybren, ya, I would say more, but people want it to be a family type of forum. So I won't.
You want to talk about respect? I suggest you look at the way you trash talked me before I fired back.
The whole basis for "what's in nopox" has been accepted by those who are hopeful in replicating a diy recipe. I would love to as well, but saying it's only vodka and vinegar is about as unprogressive as it gets. Why? Because it clearly states methanol on the bottle, and that's only part of what else is in there. But they clearly dumb it down, and pretend even the methanol doesn't do anything in the ocean.

I mention that, and multiple people tell me "there's no methanol on the reefs!" and then proceed to make fun of me like they're 5th graders trying to prove themselves.

We all have access to the net, and the same info, look it up. Research methanol in the ocean. And then think about how much we, as humans, ACTUALLY know about about the ocean.

Then come talk to me about respect, children.
 
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Kungpaoshizi

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People have said it. Or they say it's a minimal amount, but that's not true either. Another person who is held in high regard in this community has said 'I don't see it playing any sort of role that is required for anything!' along with shooting down that fungus or yeast has no role in the oceans/reefs.

All of those statements are completely inaccurate and in favor of the diy recipe. But nobody else even takes the time to look into it. Instead they say 'I'll have what that guy is having' or 'boy, your attitude is disrespectful!'
Well let me tell ya, I'm tired of the crap being dished out by people who don't even take the time to learn on their own. So yes, my patience with this stupid debate is gone. You have something intelligent to say, bring it up, otherwise to say 'it's only vinegar and vodka' is right on par with someone who doesn't use reason because it's on the bottle in clear text. And then when that's brought up, people say "oh well, they put it on their so they didn't have to get a liquor license!" To which I have to say, 'oh you must be right, that methanol couldn't possibly play ANY role whatsoever in the ocean!!'

You take methanol out of the ocean, the cascading effects of death you would see would be monumental. True story.
 

jason2459

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That's out of context and you should re-read what he said. I will let Randy speak for himself however.

I will stand by my statements 100%. I also never said methanol plays no role at all. I do find it unecessary and potentially dangerous/lethal to dose in our tanks. That leaves its role for denaturing as its most productive and required role in nopox.
 

Rybren

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When you make outlandish and unrealistic comments regarding price and cost effectiveness, you have to expect to be taken to task. I bought a gallon (actually it was 4L, so a bit more than a gallon) of vinegar last night for the whopping price of $1.99 and no, it wasn't on sale for 80% off.

I have no doubt that NOPOX works quite well. Through experience, I also know that the DIY NOPOX works quite well. Does it work better than the store-bought stuff or vice versa? I have no idea, but I can say with absolute certainty that the DIY meets my needs.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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People have said it. Or they say it's a minimal amount, but that's not true either. Another person who is held in high regard in this community has said 'I don't see it playing any sort of role that is required for anything!' along with shooting down that fungus or yeast has no role in the oceans/reefs.

All of those statements are completely inaccurate and in favor of the diy recipe. But nobody else even takes the time to look into it. Instead they say 'I'll have what that guy is having' or 'boy, your attitude is disrespectful!'
Well let me tell ya, I'm tired of the crap being dished out by people who don't even take the time to learn on their own. So yes, my patience with this stupid debate is gone. You have something intelligent to say, bring it up, otherwise to say 'it's only vinegar and vodka' is right on par with someone who doesn't use reason because it's on the bottle in clear text. And then when that's brought up, people say "oh well, they put it on their so they didn't have to get a liquor license!" To which I have to say, 'oh you must be right, that methanol couldn't possibly play ANY role whatsoever in the ocean!!'

You take methanol out of the ocean, the cascading effects of death you would see would be monumental. True story.

Perhaps if you did a little more in the way of actually posting info that shows how and why methanol is important to organic cycling in reefs, we'd be more impressed. Saying look it up yourself is not helpful, especially since I have looked and did not find any convincing information.

Sure, there is methanol in the ocean. There are also millions of other organic chemicals. Acetate has been shown to be among the most important in terms of volume. Methanol has not. I know you are methanol-centric because it is the heart of your belief that Red Sea adds it intentionally to NOPOX after their teams of scientists proved its importance. I'm yet to be convinced of that.
 

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Back to the subject at hand. :)

I've been dosing N03:p04-X for 3-4 months now? I do about a 10% water change once every week (40 gallons) and my nitrates have been stable at 2.5ppm and Phosphates at .02ppm. Nitrates are tested with a Salifert kit and Phosphates with a Hanna Phosphorus ULR Checker. I have no experience with dosing Vodka, Vinegar, or anything else and I used bio-pellets very briefly long ago, but so far I'm satisfied with the results I'm seeing with N03:p04-X.

Works for me and I get to keep drinking my vodka! :p
 

Kungpaoshizi

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That's out of context and you should re-read what he said. I will let Randy speak for himself however.

I will stand by my statements 100%. I also never said methanol plays no role at all. I do find it unecessary and potentially dangerous/lethal to dose in our tanks. That leaves its role for denaturing as its most productive and required role in nopox.
I never said you, so I guess like what's on the label perhaps you didn't read it correctly. But also, if you know methanol dosing does not help the processes in our tank and it's in lethal doses, you should write red sea and let them know. After all I'm sure you've done more research than they have. Apologies, I guess I'm delusional since the corals seem to look great and grow just fine. Maybe its just the first stages of how they die when grown in a tank that introduces toxic and lethal doses of compounds.

But yes, definitely be sure to write red sea, they'll want to know this important info asap!!
I'm so glad you brought this irrefutable evidence to the table along with all your research. I bet when you share it with them they'll want to give you a job since obviously the people who work there have only been killing all of the innocent creatures in our tank!

Thanks again for sharing the info, so glad you posted all those references too, I'll be sure to read up on it all so I don't make the same mistakes after my tank recovers from its downward spiral. Can't believe how good the corals look when they're dying.
 
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jason2459

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I never said you, so I guess like what's on the label perhaps you didn't read it correctly. But also, if you know methanol dosing does not help the processes in our tank and it's in lethal doses, you should write red sea and let them know. After all I'm sure you've done more research than they have. Apologies, I guess I'm delusional since the corals seem to look great and grow just fine. Maybe its just the first stages of how they die when grown in a tank that introduces toxic and lethal doses of compounds.

But yes, definitely be sure to write red sea, they'll want to know this important info asap!!
I'm so glad you brought this irrefutable evidence to the table along with all your research. I bet when you share it with them they'll want to give you a job since obviously the people who work there have only been killing all of the innocent creatures in our tank!

Thanks again for sharing the info, so glad you posted all those references too, I'll be sure to read up on it all so I don't make the same mistakes after my tank recovers from its downward spiral. Can't believe how good the corals look when they're dying.


You didn't have to say you. You were responding to me. I never said you were delusional. I have said you are an odd fellow but so are many of us. I also believe you take things out of context a lot and don't seem to read things through.

There has been posted links to the toxicity of methanol. It can paralyze, cause blindness, and death. I don't believe there's enough in nopox and never said there was. Being I believe it's a denaturing agent it takes very little. But if someone wanted to try and add methanol in their DIY mix I would stress caution. It seems safer in a denitrator which a company does make.

Edit: here quick search
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15162848
 

furam28

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@Kungpaoshizi . You claim that NoPox is better than all other forms of carbon dosing. Is there any basis for that claim? Have you done any side-by-side experiment where you dosed NoPox in one tank, and vodka or vinegar in another tank, everything else being similar? Saying that your corals look great with NoPox dosing is merely anecdotal. Red Sea also claims that their proprietary mix harbors the best result, but they have never shown any actual data to back their claims. I myself dose NoPox simply because it took me months to fine tune the dosage and when I make a switch I have to re-adjust all of that. But I don't have any delusion that their is some magical ingredients in NoPox (in ppm amounts) that has some extraordinary benefits. No one here has claimed that NoPox is worse; it's just as good as any other carbon dosing. If you or Red Sea want to claim that it is better, the onus is on you to show the evidence for that.
 

Kungpaoshizi

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You didn't have to say you. You were responding to me. I never said you were delusional. I have said you are an odd fellow but so are many of us. I also believe you take things out of context a lot and don't seem to read things through.
There has been posted links to the toxicity of methanol. It can paralyze, cause blindness, and death. I don't believe there's enough in nopox and never said there was. Being I believe it's a denaturing agent it takes very little. But if someone wanted to try and add methanol in their DIY mix I would stress caution. It seems safer in a denitrator which a company does make.

I didn't have to say you, because I wasn't remarking that about you, but it is along the similar path you speak of. And you never said I was delusional, I said I was. LOL (seems you enjoy 'out of context' stuff)

I know methanol can be a negative, but if you took the time to listen to red sea's explanation, it would make more sense.

Until any of you know the exact formula, you can't say the diy nopox is the nopox. If anything you should just call it something else, but to call it diy nopox just makes you look silly. :)
 

Kungpaoshizi

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@Kungpaoshizi . You claim that NoPox is better than all other forms of carbon dosing.

If you or Red Sea want to claim that it is better, the onus is on you to show the evidence for that.

That first part, please show me where I claim nopox is better than all other forms of carbon dosing. (thanks)

Again, I'm not claiming it's better, I am merely telling people they can't say 'diy nopox is the same as nopox'. Especially when they don't even include something that is even printed on the label, and has actual functionality in the ocean in various ways. Many of which are at the microbial level amongst bacteria and fungus.

It would be awesome to start a look into those microbes, because it's a true or false scenario and they do exist and do utilize some of the tangents carbon dosing entails. But instead, people want to have a yelling contest about justifying their diy recipes.

I think it's the fact that people think they're right, even in the face of others with different results.
So far the thread itself has dictated more beneficial experiences with nopox than vinegar, yet people still don't take a step back from arguing for their half-complete diy recipe to see that I guess.
 

jason2459

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I didn't have to say you, because I wasn't remarking that about you, but it is along the similar path you speak of. And you never said I was delusional, I said I was. LOL (seems you enjoy 'out of context' stuff)

I know methanol can be a negative, but if you took the time to listen to red sea's explanation, it would make more sense.

Until any of you know the exact formula, you can't say the diy nopox is the nopox. If anything you should just call it something else, but to call it diy nopox just makes you look silly. :)

I don't believe I stated anything out of context. I just stated I never called you delusional as you had just called yourself that and also complained about people putting you down.

We do know with extremly high certainty the main ingredients of redseas nopox and their ratios which I posted above.

I will again have to say I will bow out of our "conversation" as its going downhill and starting to turn into insults.
 
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