Reef crystals vs esv - triton test

Ehsan@triton · Oct 21, 2014

Hi guys,

I think we should also think about following points:

1. We have tested a lot of Salts in the EU already and there are fluctuations from batch to batch and from tub to tub. So its possible that the one tub is a lot of Li and the oter none.
You can see this effect often when reefers test there frech mixed seawater befor doing the WC. Some with 4 Alk and some with 11 Alk....

2. The lithium upper LOD is in the moment 400 ppb + 80 ppb calculation allowance. So the amount of 6000 ppb is calculated whey over the allowed amount.

3. What effect will the use of the Salt realy have on your tank, how much in reality would it raise your Li in a practical point, and how much would have a negativ effect on your animals.
This we still need to find out scientificly.

All the best Ehsan.

Ehsan@triton · Oct 21, 2014

Ps Craig B. sid something about Magnesium Chloride also so maybe I will start testing with this.
Very helpfull discussions:bigsmile: Thanks

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 21, 2014

Ehsan@triton said:
Ps Craig B. sid something about Magnesium Chloride also so maybe I will start testing with this.
Very helpfull discussions:bigsmile: Thanks

Certainly some brands may have too much, but at least one does not (or did not)...

In 2005, Greg Hiller posted the manufacturers typical analysis of Magnesium Chloride from the Dead Sea Works. It does not look to be a big source of lithium, but it would provide roughly the entire NSW amount, and, of course, other ingredients would have their own lithium.

Making a salt with 1300 ppm of magnesium would contain 0.15 ppm of lithium from that source, or 150 ppb.

Trace Element Content of Dead Sea Works Magnesium Chloride

Element ...Typical(ppm)....Maximum(ppm)

Mg 115000(11.5%) 125000 (12.5%)
Ca 7000 8000
Br 5000 8000
K 2500 3500
S(SO42-) 180 200
Sr 120 150
B 20 30
Li 10 15
N* 4 5
Si 9 15
Fe 3 10
P 2 3
Mn 2 3
Al 1 3
Ba 1 2
Co <1
Cr <1
Cu <1
F <1
Mo <1
Ni <1
Se <1
V <1
Zn <1
As <0.1
Hg <0.1
Pb <0.1
Cd <0.01
I n.a
Rb n.a

hart24601 · Oct 22, 2014

I switched to tropic marin pro reef. I am not going to triton test it unless someone gives me 50 bucks - well not right now at least. I heard reports about low alk, but my 1st 32 gallons tested at 8.5dkh. Figured since Triton recommends this salt in Europe might as well try it. I will save the ESV for my nano where I don't have many inverts. 170gal of remaining salt should last a biocube 14 a looooong time...

Hedgedrew · Oct 25, 2014

Anymore info on this subject? From esv or anyone else???

Greenstreet.1 · Oct 25, 2014

We are still wait for ESV test they said that they are going to run some test and get back to us

Rob Top1 · Oct 25, 2014

Corslife is mentioned a couple times here and it makes me wonder if they changed their quality. I use it in my preditor tank with no issue and know several with successful reefs that use it. Also no mention of Salinity, does Anyone else use that? Would be interesting to compare their batch test results that is on each bucket with Triton's

hart24601 · Oct 26, 2014

Nothing new from my perspective. Asked marine depot if qualified for refund since it didn't meet product claims, and they said wait until hear from esv, but I doubt I will.

Greenstreet.1 · Oct 26, 2014

Was this found in more that one test on ESV ? Or are we going crazy over one test

Hedgedrew · Oct 26, 2014

Wqs found in instant ocean tank also who claims no waterchanges. Whole thing is going to down where triton is going to have some quality control issues with machine.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 26, 2014

Hedgedrew said:
Wqs found in instant ocean tank also who claims no waterchanges. Whole thing is going to down where triton is going to have some quality control issues with machine.

Where is this data? I wouldn't assume that just because another tank has it that it isn't real. It may just be using the same "impure" material as a supplement somehow.

Hedgedrew · Oct 26, 2014

Randy. On rcthere was a thread about no waterchanges and no supplements except your 2 part and guy was an io user and triton came up with 6500 ug /L as was referenced in the esv salt in this thread. So tha guy didn't dose anything that should have had li in it ad sanjays batch who also used io was clean of li as was the reef crystals tested. Unless this guy dosed magnesium that had the li also but was sourced at different time or is usewdd same as esv.

msderganc · Oct 26, 2014

delete.

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 27, 2014

Hedgedrew said:
Randy. On rcthere was a thread about no waterchanges and no supplements except your 2 part and guy was an io user and triton came up with 6500 ug /L as was referenced in the esv salt in this thread. So tha guy didn't dose anything that should have had li in it ad sanjays batch who also used io was clean of li as was the reef crystals tested. Unless this guy dosed magnesium that had the li also but was sourced at different time or is usewdd same as esv.

OK, thanks, I know the one.

In that case, the magnesium was very high, and if the aquarist used a magnesium supplement to get there, and the magnesium supplement was the source of the lithium (as has been suggested as a possible source), that would explain it. So while I'm not blindly defending Triton, and it could be an error of some sort, I think it more likely to have another explanation.

hart24601 · Oct 27, 2014

Email I got today:

Hi Bret,

Here's a quick update. If Triton's numbers are correct, we believe we identified the source. During the summer, for a period of 6 weeks, we used a batch of raw material sourced from a geographical area different from the source of our usual supply. The batch numbers you received fall within this period. Before I can be completely certain, we need to get test results from a lab different than Triton but who also specializes in analysis of seawater. The lab I have in mind will also be accessible to any hobbyist and might prove useful in an effort to validate testing accuracy. I'm going to need 2 to 3 weeks to receive sampling bottles, send samples, and receive results. Once I have them I'll get back to you with more details. We still feel the salt is safe to use but our goal is to bring down the lithium level closer to NSW if our tests show they are high. The suspect raw material was used from early July to Mid August but I'd like to see test results before fine tuning that range. If my suspicions are correct, there's a good chance we could replace one of the components of the product shipped within that range if aquarists are concerned about the lithium level. I'll get back to you with more details when results are in.

Thanks for your patience,

Bob Stark

President

ESV Aquarium Products Inc.

Greenstreet.1 · Oct 27, 2014

hart24601 said:
Email I got today:

Hi Bret,

Here's a quick update. If Triton's numbers are correct, we believe we identified the source. During the summer, for a period of 6 weeks, we used a batch of raw material sourced from a geographical area different from the source of our usual supply. The batch numbers you received fall within this period. Before I can be completely certain, we need to get test results from a lab different than Triton but who also specializes in analysis of seawater. The lab I have in mind will also be accessible to any hobbyist and might prove useful in an effort to validate testing accuracy. I'm going to need 2 to 3 weeks to receive sampling bottles, send samples, and receive results. Once I have them I'll get back to you with more details. We still feel the salt is safe to use but our goal is to bring down the lithium level closer to NSW if our tests show they are high. The suspect raw material was used from early July to Mid August but I'd like to see test results before fine tuning that range. If my suspicions are correct, there's a good chance we could replace one of the components of the product shipped within that range if aquarists are concerned about the lithium level. I'll get back to you with more details when results are in.

Thanks for your patience,

Bob Stark

President

ESV Aquarium Products Inc.

I like this. Will be waiting

Randy Holmes-Farley · Oct 27, 2014

Yes, looking forward to Bob's update.

FWIW, this may be the lab he is referring to:

ENC Labs - Chemical Analysis and Consulting

For folks with serious concerns (and money), it may be worth getting tests there as well as at Triton to double check results. Much more expensive than Triton, however.