Reef Tank Energy Savings

Triggreef

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I've been thinking about putting together a thread with ways that we can conserve some energy. As into this hobby as I am, now and then i certainly have thoughts of throwing in the towel after seeing my electric bill. I mean really I have 58 solar panels at 315w each and sometimes i still have a $200 electric bill, like this month for example. I have to remind myself we've had a little snow and the days are at their shortest sunlight right now but man there has to be a way to save a little. I don't even have halides!

I do have 3 fairly large systems going though with the smallest being about 120g total.

But let's make a list of some creative ideas. Obviously there is the lighting debate but there's certainly a give and take with that.

I'll start off. A few things that I've found to help, even though my bill probably does not instill much confidence in my energy saving skills. Lol.

1. I'm switching to all deepwater aquatics dc pumps little by little as i can afford it. They have been extremely efficient and reliable for me for about 2 years now at least.

2. I began to use gravity for my media reactors as i have 4 between my tanks. So that is 4 separate pumps I've completely eliminated. The only caution with this is to use some screen where the hose siphons from so you don't suck up livestock. And keep the siphon end near the top of the water so if you lose power you don't end up siphoning too much into your sump.

Let's hear some helpful ideas...
 

TheEngineer

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Get rid of all Mag pumps. They are power hogs. I switched to a quiet one pump which uses half the power for the same flow.

Cover your tank. It helps retain heat much better.
 

FishGuyBri

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I would love to figure out how to do a smallish DIY solar panel for additional backup. I'm in a first floor apartment but get steady sun out back.
 

Bradw18

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Iv thought about a diy set up solar with a 24v charger. 2 optima red tops in series to make 24v and then a power supply for the 24v power heads and return pumps. Could even run a heater off an inverter.
 

nonstopfish

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This is something I have put a lot of thought into recently. A lot of my system is in the basement in Wisconsin, so during the winter I am paying a boat load to heat it all. I chose to do a number of things to try to save anywhere I can. Current system is about 400 gallons and will grow a bit from there likely to about 600 total water volume before too long.

1. Pink foam board insulation and rolls of insulation around any tanks I could including underneath where possible.
2. Covering any open water I could. Basically anywhere I don't have corals. This is helping save on evaporation which not only cools, but also raises the humidity in the basement and causes my dehumidifier to run more often aka more electricity.
3. Heating itself. I decided to implement a home hot water recirculating system to heat my system instead of running a pile of electric heaters. I am in the process of implementing this, but it cost me ~$500 to acquire everything for the build(pump, solenoid, ranco temp controllers, valves, pex, insulation, etc.). Based on what I am paying now to heat the system I estimate the new setup will pay for itself in 16-24 months. Gas is cheap and my hot water heater is currently heating water all day long that I don't use, so repurposing that heat on the tank will save me greatly.

There are a few added benefits to this system as well. I would like to keep my system at a higher temp, but haven't because of the added cost. I will now be able to bring my temperature up a couple degrees. It will obviously reduce my overall need for electricity, which is nice because I am working with only so many circuits in the basement. I can only use some of the newly available load however, as some of the electric heaters will still be in place as backup should the hot water heater go down. The electric heaters themselves, they are cheap and prone to failure/breaking/shorting/etc. Not having a handful of them running all the time just waiting to fail will give me peace of mind. Not to mention replacement costs when they do fail.
 

Lowell Lemon

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While in Bangkok, Thailand I noticed that all their water heating system are tankless. So only a cold water line in to a shower with a 220v instant heater for the shower. This would save so much money and energy in the United States. Think about how much it cost to heat a water heater 24/7/365 in comparison to just as you need it. Most of the units were made by Phillips and cost less than $300.00 with many at or below $200.00. No tank to clog just a simple small exchanger and we never ran out of hot water. Seems this would lower consumption for most of us. Also they use cold water for washing clothes, dishes and related. The heating units are compact and attractive. I almost bought a couple to bring home and install in our house to replace the 60 plus gallon tank we have.
 
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Triggreef

Triggreef

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To answer someone's question above, i run 3 large systems that impact my electric bill pretty severely. Before panels and before fish tanks sometimes my bill would be nearly 300 due to in ground pool in the summer, and also have 2 240v central air systems as the house is 3400sq ft. So that doesn't help either. After fish /before solar panel my highest was 575 one month.

I would love to figure out how to do a smallish DIY solar panel for additional backup. I'm in a first floor apartment but get steady sun out back.
So looking into battery back up system with the panels they were talking about 20k. Of course I'm sure this would come down if the panels were not tied into the main grid and only running a couple things but it still is probly not worth the time & frustration. If it were, someone would already be doing it.

While in Bangkok, Thailand I noticed that all their water heating system are tankless. So only a cold water line in to a shower with a 220v instant heater for the shower. This would save so much money and energy in the United States. Think about how much it cost to heat a water heater 24/7/365 in comparison to just as you need it. Most of the units were made by Phillips and cost less than $300.00 with many at or below $200.00. No tank to clog just a simple small exchanger and we never ran out of hot water. Seems this would lower consumption for most of us. Also they use cold water for washing clothes, dishes and related. The heating units are compact and attractive. I almost bought a couple to bring home and install in our house to replace the 60 plus gallon tank we have.

They do have these in the US just fyi.
 

TheEngineer

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I would love to figure out how to do a smallish DIY solar panel for additional backup. I'm in a first floor apartment but get steady sun out back.
You can buy, fairly cheaply, a 145W solar setup from Harbor Freight for around $100. Assuming you actually offset 145W of power every day for 8 hours at $0.12/kWh you'd save about $50/year. Would take a few years to recoup the cost after including batteries and the inverter, but not too long. There are probably much more efficient single panels you could buy, but I don't know what they cost.
 
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Triggreef

Triggreef

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@nonstopfish that is awesome, you got my attention for sure.

My water heater is right next to my basement sump too. So your talking about running a closed loop basically from your heater through sump via pex plumbing and back to heater? I like it. My only thought is will the warm pex be enough to heat the tank? And will the pump cost more to run than the heaters themselves?
 

nonstopfish

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@nonstopfish that is awesome, you got my attention for sure.

My water heater is right next to my basement sump too. So your talking about running a closed loop basically from your heater through sump via pex plumbing and back to heater? I like it. My only thought is will the warm pex be enough to heat the tank? And will the pump cost more to run than the heaters themselves?

You actually run it from the farthest end of the hot water line. So instead of water being cold at say your kitchen sink the hot water is much closer and hot water comes out almost immediately.

You could also just do it right by the hot water heater. You would T off near the output for the hot water heater. Run the plumbing to the sump, through the coil(approx 50' in sump) and back towards the hot water heater. Near the hot water heater you would have the solenoid, pump, and check valve so it can only flow one way.

Here is what I wrote up on it in a local forum after starting to use it last week..

Loving the new heating system so far. My thoughts and calculations after looking at the apex graph below.

Screen%20Shot%202017-01-11%20at%2011.01.26%20AM_zpsxpbedqtc.png


Previously, as you can see be the left side of the graph, I was running electric heaters to heat the tank. 900 watts was needed and would take 2:30 to heat the tank up .5 degrees(at least yesterday, looking back some days it was taking up to 4 hours to raise .5 degrees!). Now the hot water heater heats the tank 2 degrees in just over 30 minutes.

The temperature is now falling at a much faster rate however. Previously it took 1:30 to drop .5 degrees. Now the tank is dropping 2 degrees in about 2 hours. I believe the reason for this change to be that these numbers are all coming from my sump and with the electric heaters slowly warming the return pumps are able to move more of the sump water over that long period of time. The new setup heats so fast that the return pumps are not fully circulating the tanks themselves before it shuts off, so the temperature drops faster as the temps are still stabilizing when the recirculating pump shuts off.

I may change the temperature swing to 1 degree instead of 2 degrees kicking the pump on, still thinking about that. But the tanks themselves are swinging less than the 2 degrees the sump is, so not sure it's really an issue.

Crunching the numbers(hopefully I am understanding this correctly):

Using yesterdays data, the electric heaters were running 2.5 of every 4 hours or 62.5% of the day(again other days have been running even more, but lets use this as the current baseline).

900 watts x .625 x 24 hours = 13,500 watts or 13.5 kwh

New system is running one pump 30 minutes every 2.5 hours or 20% of the day. Solenoid is only a couple watts so I am excluding it.

60 watts x .2 x 24 hours = 288 watts or ~.3 kwh

I have to double check but a kwh costs me about $.13 if I remember correctly.

13.5kwh x $.13 = $1.75 a day

.3 kwh x $.13 = $.04 a day

So this rough calculation has me savings $1.71 a day or $51.30 a month in electricity during the winter months. This is offset to an extent by gas costs on the hot water heater, but most of the day and night the water is just sitting there hot anyway and not being used. So not sure what the extra gas will cost a month, but my savings is definitely going to be substantial.
 

TheEngineer

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You're neglecting the cost of heating the water. :) There are home heating systems that use recirculated hot water out there. They're fairly inefficient. Those tankless water heaters pull a lot of power when they are running. It heats your tank faster because you're probably putting 2000 watts of heat in, maybe more.
 
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Triggreef

Triggreef

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You're neglecting the cost of heating the water. :) There are home heating systems that use recirculated hot water out there. They're fairly inefficient. Those tankless water heaters pull a lot of power when they are running. It heats your tank faster because you're probably putting 2000 watts of heat in, maybe more.

One thing, his savings is most likely double what his math was there because it looks like he used the actual cost per kwh that it says in your bill. $0.13 is the cost but after adding in power company delivery charges it's more like $0.25 per kwh.

Also need not using one of those recirculating water heating systems, he tied it into a gas powered water heater, so as he stated that tank is maintaining the heat whether he uses it to heat his coil or not. I would venture that the water doesn't lose all that much heat before it returns to the water tank, but sure it will lose a few degrees.

@nonstopfish do you have it set up so that the water that runs through the coil, returns to the water heater? If you can do that and avoid the water heater bringing in fresh cold water, saving would be substantial i would think.
 

TheEngineer

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If the cost of heating the water with gas is less than the cost of heating the water with electricity, then there is some cost benefit there. There is no energy savings, though. It doesn't matter what the energy source is, it still takes the same number of joules to heat the tank. I'd venture to say this is a less efficient heating method too since there is loss to the environment during the transfer between the hot water heater and the tank. An electric heater in the tank will transfer 100% of the energy consumed to the tank that was used to heat the element.

There's also the additional wear on the hot water heater. They have cycle lifetimes. It is a heck of a lot cheaper to replace a heater in your tank than you hot water heater :)
 

justingraham

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Following as I want to hear my tank with the hot water heater as well
 

nonstopfish

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You're neglecting the cost of heating the water. :) There are home heating systems that use recirculated hot water out there. They're fairly inefficient. Those tankless water heaters pull a lot of power when they are running. It heats your tank faster because you're probably putting 2000 watts of heat in, maybe more.

You are correct I neglected the gas costs as I do not have any data at this point for the gas. I did mention that in the sentences right after my guestimation of monthly savings.

As @Triggreef mentions, I am using the gas water heater so not getting the electrical pull. I agree with you the electric wouldn't make sense because of the inefficiencies and still using electric.

One thing, his savings is most likely double what his math was there because it looks like he used the actual cost per kwh that it says in your bill. $0.13 is the cost but after adding in power company delivery charges it's more like $0.25 per kwh.

Also need not using one of those recirculating water heating systems, he tied it into a gas powered water heater, so as he stated that tank is maintaining the heat whether he uses it to heat his coil or not. I would venture that the water doesn't lose all that much heat before it returns to the water tank, but sure it will lose a few degrees.

@nonstopfish do you have it set up so that the water that runs through the coil, returns to the water heater? If you can do that and avoid the water heater bringing in fresh cold water, saving would be substantial i would think.

Just looked at my bill. $.13111 per kwh. I don't really have delivery charges. They charge a fee per day, but I am getting charged that no matter what.

You are correct, the water returns to the water heater. So the loop uses no water, just the heat from that water.

If the cost of heating the water with gas is less than the cost of heating the water with electricity, then there is some cost benefit there. There is no energy savings, though. It doesn't matter what the energy source is, it still takes the same number of joules to heat the tank. I'd venture to say this is a less efficient heating method too since there is loss to the environment during the transfer between the hot water heater and the tank. An electric heater in the tank will transfer 100% of the energy consumed to the tank that was used to heat the element.

There's also the additional wear on the hot water heater. They have cycle lifetimes. It is a heck of a lot cheaper to replace a heater in your tank than you hot water heater :)

You are correct, there is no energy savings. I agree with you that I am actually using more energy to heat my tank because electric heaters transfer basically all the energy into the water. The hot water heater is only so efficient at using gas, holding the heat in the hot water, and the insulation around the piping running through the house also allows heat to leave.

The savings simply comes down to two things.

1. Gas is much cheaper than electricity.
2. The marginal cost of the hot water heater setup is only the difference in what is already being used to maintain hot water for use and what it now takes to maintain that hot water with my system in place. I am repurposing heat that would normally go unused sitting in the water heater.

To your last point, yes a hot water heater is more expensive, but the marginal reduction in the life of the water heater is the cost of using my system. I am not sure what that will be, but I also know that I have replaced a whole lot of electric heaters in the past 5 years. Let's keep my loose math and examples going...

Hypothetical
Hot water heater costs $400 and has a useful life of 12 years. With the added wear and tear from the fish tank heating it now only lasts half as long, 6 years. Cost $200.

Electric Heaters
Cost $30 plus dollars each. 1 per year replaced(I've replaced way more than that, but they get used for various things from QT's to mixing containers, etc.). Cost $180+

Not a whole lot of cost difference there. This is all before we add in the many other benefits I alluded to previously. Electric heaters fail frequently, shock you and inhabitants, break, etc. Hot water heaters still work with the power out and running a pump on a generator in extended power outages is much easier than running a lot of power to keep the system heated. It heats water much faster. Etc. Etc.

Are these setups for everyone, definitely not. A number of variables go into whether setting one up would be worth it, however, in my case I know I will save money, just not to what extent. I look forward to seeing how it plays out and how much I save.
 

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