Saltmix Parameters bring on the test results

[jason2459]

There was an excellent thread put together quite some time ago now by Billybeau1 and hilgert. I've referred to it may times to see if someone is close to the expected values of a particular saltmix. There can of course be slight variations and if any settling has occurred in the mix before use can cause results to be even farther from the normal numbers.

There's threads all the time with people testing their new salt mix but seems like its always when there's possibly a problem with it.

I'd like this to be a thread of new batches of salt mix tested when there aren't any problems. Get a good array of tests done on different brands. Then compare each one against the original synthetic saltmix parameters thread and compile a set of averages for a particular brand and compare.

Just basics like temp, salinity, alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium. Or at subset of those three but I think temp and salinity level should be published with all the posts. Giving what was used for the testing would be nice too.

Something simple like
Brand:
Temp:
Salinity:

Alkalinity:
Calcium:
Magnesium:

Another good point brought up was

To make this as accurate as possible, It wouldn't be a bad idea to make sure the dry salt mix has been thoroughly mixed before using, to eliminat any possible elemental stratification that may have occurred during shipping.
Make sure you're adding the mix to the RO/DI water, and not the water to the mix. Allow the ASW to mix for at least 4 hours before taking any measurements, to ensure a good mix.
Use a properly calibrated salinity measuring device, i.e. Refractometer calibrated with a 35ppt solution, not RO/DI or distilled water, or a probe calibrated with a 53mS solution. If using another type of device, make a note of it.
What kits were used to measure the Ca, Mg and Alk.

Along with bringing temp up to around 77F or 25C just before testing.


This will not be perfect and useful only as a rough idea of what to expect from a particular brand of salt mix.



My tests done recently from my New Salt mix brute.

Brand: Instant Ocean (IO) nothing added
Temp: 77.2 (Hanna handheld meter)
Salinity: 53mS pinpoint probe and 35ppt veegee refractometer

Alk:10.4dkh Salifert
Ca: 410 ppm Salifert
Mg: 1320ppm Salifert


Edited for

Latest compilation of results of the big 3:

Triton only results

Correction on AquaVitro Salinity

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

One drawback to such tests done by different people is the mix of test kits, testing skills, salinities and salinity measurements confounding the interpretation of the values. That was the good point of Billbeau's data since he did it all himself in the same way every time.

 

[jason2459]

I absolutely agree this will not be precise or accurate. But I will find it interesting how others are testing, what results they get when they believe everything is good, how they compare against each other for those testing the same ASW, and how they compare against those 2009 results.

I would like to test all these mixes myself at some point as well but have been waiting money on test kits recently.

I suppose through everything I've been comparing I'm narrowing down which kits I like the most, I get the most consistent results with, and establishing at least a baseline of testing abilities.

My next up adventure coming up in a few weeks will be comparing alk, Ca, and Mg kits vs AWT vs Triton. I suppose next will be collecting salt mixes. I'd still love to see what others get. And they may surprise themselves or learn something about their own testing.

 

[jason2459]

For some reason I can't attach a 11kb zipped spreadsheet. Says the file size is to big?

 

[jason2459]

Going to start testing myself one brand at a time. Like one a month. Probably starting soonish. Anyone else like to add their results please feel free to post here or PM me.

And I guess I could link here to the test kit reviews I've done and recommend.

A Nitrate Test kit shootout between NYOS, Salifert, RedSea Pro, and API
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/nitrate-test-kit-shoot-out-nyos-salifert-redsea-api.221323/

A PO4 test kit shootout between Nyos, Elos Pro, Salifert, Hanna Checkers x2, and Seachem.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/po...s-pro-salifert-hanna-checkers-seachem.222628/

Me vs. Triton
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hobbyist-vs-triton-testing.221320/

All the Above along with AWT vs. Triton which also includes another follow up Triton test
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tr...ts-api-salifert-elos-redsea-hanna-etc.222909/

The final Big 3 Shootout Alk, Ca, Mg: RedSea, Nyos, Elos, Salifert, API, Hanna, Triton, AWT
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/b...os-elos-salifert-api-hanna-triton-awt.234660/


Testing to see how this looks since I can't attach a spreadsheet.

 

[jason2459]

@Randy Holmes-Farley or anyone else if you could validate, give suggestions, or criticism on what I'm planning.

I want a setup that I can produce a repeatable experience in mixing many different saltmix brands over a long period of time.


So, getting a few things ready, cleaned out, and practice/test procedures I plan on doing.

1000ml class b graduated cylinder

Hydor Pico pump to mix and I like it pulls from the bottom

Just to check and adjust temp a super cheap digital thermometer but has always been consistent for me. I bought it many years ago. I remember it being ever so slightly high. Double checked tonight with a quick ice water test.

And I'll be targeting 25C. As from late fall to early spring my house is around 65-68F. But late spring to early fall could be around 80F. I figured 77F/25C is a good middle ground I can easily adjust to among other things I may have a wrong idea about.

And a super easy way for me to adjust temp hotter or colder.... My kitchen sink. I just filled it with warmer water. In hotter temps I'll fill it with colder water.

Then I'll use my pin point salinity probe to monitor when I hit the desired levels of 35ppt. And use my veegee refractometer as a cross check as well. I'll calibrate or at least check both for calibration before hand.

I figure I'll try and calculate what the manufacturer suggests to get to that salinity level of 35ppt in 1000ml of RODI and make note of how much was actually needed or if it is exactly as indicated.

Then I will test for Calcium, Alkalinity, and Magnesium using Salifert kits.

Edit:
Was thinking I might want to set a set amount of mixing time. Like 45 minutes. Don't know. I just started thinking about that.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes fixed time on mixing might be good, possibly with a couple of tests on at least one or two salts that show alk is stable (or not) on continued mixing (Red Sea has scared a lot of folks about mixing too long).

One issue is that making such a small amount makes you even more prone to inhomogeneity issues than usual for reefers, so to disprove that might require some cases of 2-3 measurements from different parts of a bag or bucket.

Sorry to suggest even more tests!

 

[jason2459]

Yes, very good points. I will also look to collect some samples to send off to Triton for some of these. I found one saltmix that claims it is ozone safe because it contains 0 bromide. I would like to test that.

I will be mixing the dry mix before use as best I can. I think I could still handle doing two tests like this pulling from different areas.

I suppose to start with I'll do a pretest with IO, since that's what I have in abundance, and test Alkalinity every 30 minutes for a few hours. See how long it takes for Alk to stabilize.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, quite a few mixes used to contain no bromide for that reason (ozone use), but now most do. IO was one of those, IIRC.

 

[revhtree]

Good thread!

 

[jason2459]

Good thread!

Thanks! It will be interesting.

 

[cmcoker]

So your using tap water? Would that effect the results? Just wondering since so many people talk about how their TDS varies during the seasons.. Didn't know if alkalinity or calcium might the altered depending on tap water..

 

[jason2459]

So your using tap water? Would that effect the results? Just wondering since so many people talk about how their TDS varies during the seasons.. Didn't know if alkalinity or calcium might the altered depending on tap water..

Not directly.

I will be using RODI to mix the salt into in the graduated cylinder. The sink and tap is used for temp control and won't touch the salt mix. The cylinder will sit in the tap water.

 

[cmcoker]

Oh, OK I couldnt tell from the pic on my phone

 

[jason2459]

First run tonight with Instant Ocean.

Calibrated the pinpoint salinity probe. Veegee was spot on as usual.

I got the water to temp and ever so slowly over a 30 minute period added the saltmix. I did around 5 grams at a time from many different areas of the bag that I also thoroughly mixed up before opening. Took about 46g of the IO to mix to 35ppt in 1000ml of RODI.

Tested alkalinity right after getting to 35ppt and came to 11.5 dKH. Tested 30minutes later to 11.5dKH. Will test again one more time and will test Ca and Mg then as well.

Also, I placed a bit of plastic wrap on top to reduce any evaporation that could take place over this time period.

 

[jason2459]

Alkalinity 11.5 dKH @ 1.5hours.
Ca 430
Mg 1320-1335

Will check that again in the morning and will redo this test again tomorrow night.

But those are around what's to be expected. Ca seems a bit high but alkalinity and Mg seem right.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree, calcium is seemingly a tad high, but otherwise the results are as expected.

Good plan on the multiple draws from the bag.

 

[jason2459]

Alkalinity this morning tested out to 11.2dKH. I'd say it was stable as soon as mixed.

Tonight I think I will do 1g at a time from multiple locations. I like I'm doing this with IO as kind of a control baseline as I'm fairly familiar with it. I'd expect it's Ca to be around 400, Alk around 11, and Mg around 1300.

I'd like to get 2 tests in a row with similar readings using the same steps. I think adding 1g at a time over a 30-40 minute period may help that. If Ca comes in closer to 400 I'll redo again the next night adding 1g at a time again and see if the results are the same.

 

[jason2459]

I just spent the past 55 minutes or so ever so slowly adding in (1g at a time) about 46g of Instant Ocean to 1L of RO/DI water brought up to 25C.

This time I didn't just take salt from different locations but also mixed up the salt mix between every gram added.

Zeroed out the scale, mixed up the saltmix weighed the gram out, added to the water, and repeat.

Tested alkalinity as soon as it hit 35ppt. And test result was...11.5dKH

Can't be anymore consistent then that. I'll let it mix for 45 minutes now and test alk, Ca, and Mg.

 

[jason2459]

Results 45 minutes after achieving 35ppt at 25C were
Alkalinity: 11.5
Calcium: 420
Magnesium: 1305

Pretty darn close to what I would expect. Will repeat 1 more time.