The importance of stability

[RBursek]

I do not think barametric pressure would be much of a key to corals breeding, since it changes so often and frequent, now with fish that is a different store, at least fresh water in inland lakes seem to feed less when the pressure is low. I have had to fish jump durring thunder storms so that one I will buy, but would think it would be the thinder more so then lightning, because in some cases a tank may not even be exposed to the lightning. My TV is in the living room about 4' from the tank on permendicular walls, the MH are on till 830, then Actinics till 930, then blue LEDS till 11, I will start to pay attention to the tank and TV combo since my tank is 4' from my relcliner and when watching tv the tank is inbetween it and me.

 

[wicked demon]

I think it is gravitational, and magnetic polarity being effcted by lunar cycles, along with other envirnmental contributers, it is hard to believe it could be any single factor though...they just know when its the right time, and respond accordingly.

 

[RBursek]

I agree, but without any real knowledge on my own. The moon does not effect our magnetic fields to the point that it can be measured, if at all. All I remember is that on that show on the oceans that they said and showed these corals spawning in Nov and it was either 7 days before the full moon or after, but I think it was after. Tides and currents can affect water temp at a certain area and since corals are stationairy, I would not think it would be a temp thing, but could be a variable if an extreme change was occuring.

 

[CoralBandit]

my guess is they would use temp at least in part, b/c increase temp = increase current therefore it gives offspring a better chance to be taken up by a stronger current to help seed a new reef. Im not saying currents cant be cold im just talking about convection in general. I have no idea how these things work.

 

[Dave@ARA]

Wicked Demon was just trying to add to this...no debate.
This is an interesting thread you have started..has got me thinking about allot today so thank you-Dave

 

[wicked demon]

debate is healthy, helps us get to the correct answer (providing there is one):wink:

 

[Alpha Aquaculture]

I just read a very good thread:

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/f48/two-part-dosing-vs-reactors-23762.html

Some good talk in there about stability

for example:

It is not really about personal preference as it is about "Calcium Demand" from the bio load.
When you first start a reef tank, you have a low demand for calcium "Uptake" or "Demand".
This is why tanks with small frags, little corallines, and are pretty new use a 2-part with great success.
Once the demand increases due to a heavy population of corals and an increase in corallines the 2-part starts to gets used much faster. Also, phosphates and bio-available acids start to react and percipitate some calcium, so the demand increases. At this point, a CA reactor is advisable and a smart purchase.

The trick is dialing in the reactor with the proper media and flow/CO2.
The reactor may be dosing an Alk of 10 but a calcium level of 380 ppm and you want more. Well, at this point you need to increase the CO2 by lowering the pH controller's target number from say 6.4 to 6.0. This effluent also needs to run through a secondary reactor to diffuse the CO2(which is acidic) and to buffer the pH back up to 8.

Many people run single reactors and this is OK, but there are better results running through a second reactor. The media of the secondary reactor should be Calcite chips which are high in strontium and Magnesium. This will help balance out those 2 levels also.

If, after you have done this to your system and you still need to add 2 part or drip Kalk, then your system is exceeding the demand of the reactor you have provided and you need to increase the reactors size or add a second reactor.

The use of phosphate removal resins or a Bacteria system like Zeo-vit or si,ilar system, is needed to reduce nutrient levels that prohibit good growth and color. Phosphates are needed in trace levels, not .2-2ppm levels. Phosphates stop the uptake of calcium through a process known as Calcium inhibition.

There are additional variables to successful growth of corals outside of maintaining proper calcium/Alk levels. These are in no specific order...
Available protien through zooplankton
Available light measured in Par and Kelvins
Available carbon sources
Available water currents to wash away waste products and bring new sources of food
Consistent water parameters including stable salinity, Alkalinity, Calcium levels, and an overall nutrient deplete system(meaning very low nitrates/phosphates

When all of these parameters are met within the "optimal" range calcification and photosynthesis will work harmoniously to provide the fastest growth rates available.

Here is a nice article on Photosynthesis and calcification....
Effect of increased calcium concentration in sea water on calcification and photosynthesis in the scleractinian coral Galaxea fascicularis -- Marshall and Clode 205 (14): 2107 -- Journal of Experimental Biology

Basically remember that there is more to the overall success than just the addition of a reactor. Stability is key more than anything. For example, you could have a tank that has 20ppm nitrates or higher look amazing because it always at that level and the other parameters listed above are stable. Therefore it is safe to assume that corals adapt to their environment if that environment is consistent, and once they have acclimated to this environment they begin to thrive! However, if the environment is always changing in chemistry then the corals will grow much slower and be much weaker.

Hope this helps.

:xd:

 

[wicked demon]

definatly some good info there, especilly on keeping up with bio-demand.

 

[kingfisherfleshy]

I would the two basic main factors would be salinity and temp.

+1 for that...

The stability freak thing happened to me when I killed my first acro. I thought to myself "Why the hell did that happen?" So I started checking everything...temp was a little high, salinity was a little low. Those were the two things I started on, and immediately I was able to grow an acro and a milli to fairly large sizes. From there Ive just tried to make everything as consistent as possible. When there are swings they are routine.

 

[beaslbob]

Just skimimng over this thread, I got the feeling that we are confusing constant or unvarying with stability.

But that also could be my unstable reading of this thread.

See my thread from last month:

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/f295/stable-vrs-unchanging-38371.html

Which has not received a single reply. So at least there is some interest here.


my .02

 

[Mr Beardsley]

I think (at least for sps style tanks) that low nutrient, phosphate/nitrate, levels are some of the most important to keep at a low stable level. Also up there in the needs to be at a stable level are the water chemistry parameters of alk, calc, mag, and salinity. I think light, and temperature are some of the parameters that can change the most without consequence.

 

[wicked demon]

I hadn't seen this thread until now and its an excellent point that the two concepts are different, and it is a much more detailed explanation of what I was trying to say to Dave. nice thread, well writen beasllbob!!:wink:

Just skimimng over this thread, I got the feeling that we are confusing constant or unvarying with stability.

But that also could be my unstable reading of this thread.

See my thread from last month:

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/f295/stable-vrs-unchanging-38371.html

Which has not received a single reply. So at least there is some interest here.


my .02

 

[Alpha Aquaculture]

Good points all! I have a question:

What is the effect of an unstable nighttime? If there are lights in the room turning on and off at weird intervals (has no real effect on par) or more importantly if LED's are being turned on and off at weird intervals. My powerbrites are 20 or so percent of my normal lights and I turn them on for hours during feeding which doesn't happen at the same time every other nite. I also 'show off' my tank with led's anytime someone comes over or if I want to take a nite look, so they flash on at random. Anyone have any data or info for me?

 

[stunreefer]

Alpha, I doubt there is any data on this.

Lots of anecdotal info though, for example I've seen fish jump and/or get spooked when lights come on randomly. Every night I turn off the ambient light in the room first, then the main lights. Generally there is a light on down the hall or in the bathroom that would create a slight glow, but nothing real bright by the tank. These get shut off just before bed. The LED's (REAL low light blue's) are on all night.

It's best to not have everything switching on/off as to replicate a night cycle and not spook the fish. If your fish are very skittish put more weight into the desicion to turn them on/off frequently, corals don't really care (for the most part) as they react much slower.

 

[RBursek]

I have never night dived in water, so I do not know how deep a full moon lights ocean water, but if it does and you have clouds moveng under the moon causing shadows, you do not have constant light, same as in the day with clouds causing shadows. The TV on in a dark room and as scenes lighten and darken.

 

[Paul_N]

I run dim night time leds in my tank. My fish are also pretty accustom to seeing my nose up against the glass with a red led flashlight at night...and if that doesn't spook them....nothing will...:snicker:

 

[Azurel]

Good reading guys.......

I just started a 3 phase light regimen......I changed from t-5 to a Reef Brite and a Ice Cap Reef Illuminations.....So I thought to myself why not try to do a light regimen that I was never able to do but wanted to...

Now my lighting works like this
8am Ice Cap Leds
9am Reef Brites
10am 250w 14k Hamilton SE

8pm MH go off
9pm Reef Brites go off
10pm Ice Caps go off

As of right now I cannot tell a differance in the way the fish act other then my clowns seem to have kicked up the mating dance. As far as corals go the only one I have seen or could be showing a differance is my Aussie gold/orange Anchor. It was filling up nice before but now it is at least twice the size it would fill up before.

I honestly don't worry about PH I concern myself with Ca, alk, and Mag....If all of those are in ionic balance then PH should be in order...

I try an keep my parameters with in a tight range and not at any specific number that would be a hassle to keep. for example I try and keep my Ca within the 400/420 range with an absolute bottom of 380 if I get lazy. Within that range there shouldn't be any noticeable differance in the health of the corals or growth. But I have quite a few clams and some are big so I try and keep it as high in the range as possiable same goes with alk and Mag.

 

[reefermadness]

I wish I were running a Kalk and Calc reactor but hey scare me to death.. I have heard to many stories of these things shutting down, and causing blow back of excess calcium, or getting stuck open, or the dreaded controller malfunction....Maybe I will add them some day, just hope I can find a local reefer to help me set it up and show me the basics...

Good thread...People without auto-topoffs are wasting there time and asking for trouble. One of the first additions to any tank.

 

[wicked demon]

People without auto-topoffs are wasting there time and asking for trouble. One of the first additions to any tank.

This is true for some, but I have a rather large bio-load with no controller and dose somthing every time I top off, every day. I am also just a little more than avid about my hobby so that is reflected in the attention my system gets.

 

[Azurel]

I don't run an auto-top off due to restricted space....But I mess with the tank on a daily basis and it don't go more then 48hrs at any one time before having top off added...48 is the max though with the amount of evap that I have which gets to the absolute min after 48 hrs....I would like to add one but don't have the room.